Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision

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Maps on periphery articles

We currently have maps within the infoboxes on a few articles where the competition element was either non-existent or works different to Eurovision. Thinking in particular Congratulations: 50 Years of the Eurovision Song Contest (2005), Eurovision Song Contest's Greatest Hits (2015), and Eurovision: Europe Shine a Light (2020). There maps highlight countries which broadcast the stand-alone shows, or in the case of Congratulations distinguishing between countries that broadcast and voted vs. broadcast delayed, rather than highlighting participating countries in a competitive setting as with the usual ESC/JESC et al. articles. I get a sense that these maps are not particularly useful to the reader, and in fact could be misleading as sometimes broadcast plans are not always apparent. My preference would be removing these maps from the articles, however I wanted to gauge the thoughts of the WikiProject on this before any action was taken. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 13:52, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

It does make sense to remove the maps, especially if info on the broadcasts is unclear. On the other hand, we could keep them and change their focus to countries whose songs “participated” in the shows, aligning with the header “participation map”—especially for Congratulations which had a winner. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 09:08, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

I can see the logic behind that too. My problem would be that for Congratulations there were two songs from Ireland and the UK, and two artists from Denmark and Sweden in Greatest Hits, so the number of participants would be different from the number of countries. Perhaps that's not as much of an issue though? I just feel the maps make sense when it's an actual competition with actual performances, but any other case there's probably no need. Even with Congratulations when there was an actual competitive event there weren't that many actual performances on stage by the actual artists to really justify a participation map imo. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 10:13, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I see the point. I just thought that would have been at least a more consistent usage of the map—after all, songs from different countries are taking part, even if some countries have multiple “entries”. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 10:56, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure the maps are as useful for those events. They're move celebratory than competitive and probably should be using {{Infobox television}} or maybe even {{Infobox concert}}. Grk1011 (talk) 12:46, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

That's actually a good point as well. It may make more sense to move to a different infobox template entirely, given that in the majority of cases these aren't even song contests in the normal sense. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 08:59, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Clifford Brown (Eurovision)#Requested move 6 April 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Clifford Brown (Eurovision)#Requested move 6 April 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 01:55, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

ESC Reporter

Hey all, I've nominated an article on a former ESC blog for deletion. Your input would be appreciated; I could well be missing some sources or claim to notability. Thanks! — ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 14:53, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

ESC 2025 Map

Hey @ImStevan: You did not allow overwriting of the 2025 map. I wanted to add back San Marino and Malta and take away Luxembourg but I can't. Yoyo360 (talk) 20:37, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

 Done — IмSтevan ^talk 03:20, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Media

Being fully aware of the fact that most Eurovision fan media (apart from Wiwibloggs) don't meet notability guidelines, surely some people and sites are notable enough to be mentioned somewhere, perhaps on a new article List of notable Eurovision fan media or something similar — IмSтevan ^talk 15:20, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Would a stand-alone list of Eurovision fan media satisfy WP:NLIST though? I'm not so sure that it does, especially if we go with that the media outlets themselves are not considered notable for their own articles. If they're not notable as individual entries, why would a list of them be required or wanted? Additionally I think there's a risk of scope creep coming into play, that more and more less-notable media outlets start getting added, leading things to spiral out of control. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 15:34, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Some help at Eden Golan requested

Hello WikiProject Eurovision,

I am a fairly new editor who has gotten involved with quite the discussion at Talk:Eden Golan. The main issue of the case is whether she should be described as an "Israeli singer", followed by a short part on her youth in Russia, or as "Russian-Israeli singer". (This problem also exists on the Hurricane song page, however the problem started with a bunch of reverts on Edens page, so the discussion is happening there). Currently 5 editors have been involved, 2 in the "Israeli" camp, 2 in the "Russian-Israeli" camp and me, who is unsure about the situation.

Because of the current situation, we cannot find consensus. Seeing the looming Eurovision 2024 next week, it would be nice to get some fresh ideas in for the discussion. I hope this is the correct place, this is the conflict I have really been part of so I am still unsure if I am doing things correctly.

It is late for me, so I will probably not react for the coming 8 hours. However I hope the information laid out on the Talk:Eden Golan is enough.

Thank you for reading,

Speederzzz (Talk) (Stalk me) 21:19, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

I would say it should be Israeli-Russian, as her parents are both Russian, having been born in the Soviet Union. Ktkvtsh (talk) 21:22, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

This topic has indeed come up, however her parents are described as Ukrainian and Latvian. Seeing how complicated the relation between now-independent formerly soviet countries and the Russian identity is, this would be a tough sell.

Speederzzz (Talk) (Stalk me) 21:36, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Eurovision 2025 - When a country announces an event that historically has been used to specifically to choose its representative for Eurovision, it's a safe bet that they're going to be there.

In example - I've noticed that with Spain and Norway announcing Benidorm Fest and Melodi Grand Prix, instead of interpreting it as the country will participate in the upcoming edition, we just write it down into the other countries column.

In my opinion, if a brodcaster announces an national selection will be held, and that - that national selection historically always has been used to find the representative of Eurovision, we can consider it a confirmation that the country will participate. I understand that with i.e. Sanremo, the history isn't that it's always used to find the eurovision participant, so an announcement of Sanremo 2025 wouldn't mean Italy will certainly compete in Eurovision 2025. But when songwriting camps for Melodi Grand Prix 2025 is announced, and we have written on it's page that "It determines the country's representative for the Eurovision Song Contest, and has been staged almost every year since 1960.", the announcement of Melodi Grand Prix 2025 means Norway's participation at Eurovision 2025 is assured. Thomediter (talk) 11:28, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

If the source does not state that it is considered a confirmation, then it should not be included, but they should be mentioned below the participation table, as those song contests and Eurovision have a close connection. The examples you stated would constitute original research — IмSтevan ^talk 11:31, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

2024 United States presidential election - look at this - here we also include something 99% certain, but not 100%. If an event specifically made for selecting the Eurovision participant is announced, it definitely means that the country will take part in the contest. Thomediter (talk) 11:34, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

There is extensive coverage that the election will happen, nothing in there is original research — IмSтevan ^talk 00:30, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

AQs in semis

So, following the show (sf1), what do we think? I still believe that automatic qualifiers should be slotted into the tables for semi-finals — IмSтevan ^talk 13:10, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

I agree, they should be included. Ktkvtsh (talk) 17:30, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Netherlands 2024 disqualification

A few minutes ago, it was announced that the Netherlands was disqualified from the final. While it did compete in the semi-finals, it was disqualified from the final. How should this be represented on the map of countries, whether in red like the NQ countries, or a different colour, as it did qualify? Xeroctic (talk) 10:26, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

I say purple color because it's not used any longer for non-selected countries. As a country qualified for the final (blue) and doesn't participate in it (red) at the same time. 𝐒𝐦𝐭𝐡𝐧𝐠𝐧𝐰 ^💬 10:45, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Purple blends in too well with the rest. Green would be an option, as that is the color of semi-finalists — IмSтevan ^talk 11:08, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Green is to positive for a disqualification. That would just be misleading. Tvx1 11:58, 11 May 2024 (UTC)