Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tamil genocide: Difference between revisions

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Tamil genocide

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Article created by a rabid sock puppets abuser after admittedly copying content from War crimes during the final stages of the Sri Lankan Civil War.[1]

Nobody recognizes any "Tamil Genocide". The creation of this WP:POVFORK is a clear-cut misuse of Wikipedia as per WP:SOAP and WP:RGW.Ratnahastin (talk) 02:08, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Well sourced article which passes WP:GNG. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 02:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No it does not. Ratnahastin (talk) 03:09, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural close. The page is currently fully protected (until 3 June) and only uncontroversial edits are allowed, which a deletion nominatin certainly is not. — kashmīrī ^TALK 03:01, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The edit to put notice on the main page was already requested. Some admin will eventually put it. Ratnahastin (talk) 03:13, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, deletion is not a non-controversial edit. Secondly, and more importantly, deletion discussion in principle aims at identifying problems with the given article, and editors usually work to fix them as the discussion develops. Unless it's a case of WP:TNT, editors are unable to address problems when full protection is in place. (Granted, it wasn't possible to work on this particular article anyway because of WP:TAGTEAM). — kashmīrī ^TALK 07:59, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Kashmiri: The AfD nomination was already added to the main article hours ago.[2] You should strike your !vote now. Ratnahastin (talk) 10:16, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The article is fully protected until 21:01 on 30 May 2024 UTC, not 3 June. — AP 499D25 (talk) 09:44, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - The claim about copied content by a sock puppet is no longer valid as the article has since been significantly edited and altered by other users and enough reliable sources have been provided to justify its existence. So the claim that "nobody" recognizes Tamil genocide is clearly false and not a conclusion that can be reached by a person who has fully read the entire article or crosschecked the cited sources in the lede itself. It's a work in progress and more improvements can be made, which was what I was trying to do before users started revert warring and got the page protected. May I also remind the admins that there have been two proposals in the past for its merger and rename, both of which were opposed by most users. Furthermore, there is a place in Wikipedia for "genocides" that do not have universal nor official UN recognition, such as Bangladesh genocide, Black genocide in the United States, Guatemalan genocide and East Timor genocide. In any case, complete deletion cannot be justified.---Petextrodon (talk) 04:07, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - If we go through the contribution history of this article, it seems to me that these users User:Oz346, User:Petextrodon, User:Okiloma, User:Beastmastah, User:Omegapapaya, User:Pharaoh_of_the_Wizards are working as a group to keep their point of view in the article. I have come across these same editors in other Sri lanka civil war related Wikipedia articles as well. Also, what I have noticed is that whenever there is a discussion going on related to a Sri lankan civil war topic, they collectively come and cast the vote that favors them so that the majority is always favored. It should be also noted that three of the users I have mentioned here User:Okiloma, User:Beastmastah, User:Omegapapaya have been blocked from editing for reasons such as using multiple accounts. If we look at the profiles who voted in oppose to this rename, they seem not to be neutral editors if we go through their contribution history.Futhermore, Tamil genocide has not been recognized by the UN or any other famous Human Rights Organizations such as Human Rights Watch or Amnesty. There is a need for independent neutral Wikipedia contributors to look into this issue and provide a solution. I believe this article should be deleted or at least renamed to "Tamil Genocide Allegation". I hope my observations will be useful for Admins when coming up with a decision. JohnWiki159 (talk) 05:53, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That is a baseless personal attack. Just because many editors have common interests in pages, does not mean they are all working together. In fact, if you look at the edit history on this article, User:Beastmastah used his sock to make edits [3] which I had publicly opposed on his talk page: User talk:Omegapapaya. Also in previous votes, many uninvolved editors also voted for similar conclusions (you are not an uninvolved editor but have a pro-Sri Lanka edit history and coincidentally became active just today after a hiatus). So you should back up your claims with hard evidence. And regarding UN recognition, there was a clear conflict of interest at the UN and it was not politically neutral in its response. Oz346 (talk) 08:23, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment These pages are in watchlist hence editing them ,I have been editing Sri Lankan articles since 2006. The article does have WP:SIGCOV coverage and article with significant coverage cannot be deleted. 58 Editors have edited this page making 726 edits and that is substantial editing by others.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 11:14, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or Move:The page was created by a sock who also actively and openly canvassed at least on reddit and is affected by heavy sock and meatpuppetry. The charge of Genocide remains allegations and accusations, with no UN investigation establishing Dolus Specialis. Many of the sources used in the article are WP:SYNTH and references acts that are not Genocide and sources themselves make no mention of Genocide. There is also the issue of WP:TAGTEAM that needs to be addressed as well. -UtoD 07:52, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep There are several reliable scholarly sources discussing the topic of 'Tamil genocide', so it is notable enough for its own article. Several peer-reviewed sources are indexed by Google Scholar on this topic. The article has already gone through a discussion to merge, and a discussion to rename, and now a discussion to delete (see its talk page). There are several people who do not like the details in this article being seen on wikipedia. But that is not a valid reason to remove.Oz346 (talk) 08:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Crime, Events, Military, and Sri Lanka. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 08:14, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep firstly it is a procedural close as the article is protected.There are scholarly sources about Tamil Genocide and particurly the Tamil massacre's in 2009 is called Genocide.Further G5 is not applicable as there has been that have been substantial edits by others.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 08:22, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just to note that the 2009 Tamil massacre has its own dedicated article. There's no term "genocide" there. — kashmīrī ^TALK 08:26, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

G5? It's not a speedy deletion! — kashmīrī ^TALK 08:43, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per JohnWiki159 and also WP:SOAP. Wikipedia cannot be used for pushing an agenda. CharlesWain (talk) 09:26, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This The Peoples’ Tribunal Sri Lanka made a comprehensive ruling that qualified the events in Sri Lanka as genocide against the Tamil populace commit by the Sri Lankan government in accordance with international law. All major parties in Canada have recognized that a genocide took place on the island.@ HereforOnce777 (talk) 20:43, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep reliable scholarly sources discuss Tamil Genocide. It passes WP:GNG. Articles well sourced cannot be deleted. Socking is not relevant as there have been substantial edits by others. 27.4.1.83 (talk) 09:51, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom and JohnWiki159. I came here from ANI report. This article is clearly making fun of the word "genocide" since no such genocide against the Tamils actually took place. Orientls (talk) 09:53, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Personal opinions do not matter. We don’t make up articles from thin air, either it has reliable sources backing up or not. If you ask a Turk, Armenian genocide didn’t happen. Well that is not good enough reason, just because you felt it didn’t happen. Prove it Kanatonian (talk) Kanatonian (talk) 18:30, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep but move there’s been enough use of the term that it can be acknowledged through an article; however, I’m not convinced that it has enough of a mass recognition as genocide in the academic or legal worlds for Wikipedia to deem it as such, and those who don’t want it called “allegation” seem to universally misunderstand what we mean when we say “allegation.” We’re not saying that the occurrence of the incidents themselves are “allegations” necessarily but the claim that they amount to genocide is, genocide being a specific legal term for which Wikipedia has certain standards to use. SinhalaLion (talk) 11:47, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I believe deleting it and adding the sepcific allegatiosn of Genocide back to the War Crimes page. Large sections of the article have nothing to do with the Genocide allegation and is more about seperate accusations like displacement, settler colonialism etc and many sources don't even mention Genocide as an allegation. Article is excessively bloated by WP:SYNTH. -UtoD 12:01, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete since the article is very poorly sourced and draws a lot of its content from existing that seem to use the same sources. Advocates of this page [4] claim that there are many academic sources, however they have not assisted in the efforts undertaken to improve the quality [5]. Furthermore, from what I see there seems to be an underlying agenda at play here. Kalanishashika (talk) 14:14, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Really bad bias and POV. Littered with AI-generated text everywhere, such as "This act of reconstruction not only restored the physical monument but also served as a reaffirmation of the community's commitment to remembering the past and seeking justice. The rebuilding of the statue in Jaffna stands as a testament to the enduring spirit of the Tamil people and their continued struggle for recognition and reconciliation." Needs to be completely overhauled; blow it up and start all over again, WP:TNT. Florificapis (talk) 15:13, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Questionable passages like that can easily be removed or rectified without having to nuke the whole page. Oz346 (talk) 15:27, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep What a bad faith nomination, littered with procedural errors and personal attacks. A badly written article is no reason for deletion. A contested subject matter is not a reason for deletion. If enough reliable sources said that a genocide happened in Sri Lanka, then as an encyclopedia content creating community we can create an article. If the article is not written from neutral perspective or it is not balanced or uses peacock words we have enough notifications to improve the article. This is total hogwash, speedy close. Kanatonian (talk)
Draft-ify the current article is an embarrassment (partially because, per tradition, the The Wrong Version was protected; Special:Permalink/1225326372 is merely bad). It is argumentative, and has no clear topic-boundaries. Other articles, such as War crimes during the final stages of the Sri Lankan Civil War, cover (most of) the topic area better. The one exception is about historiography in particular; the post-war discussions of whether the specific word "genocide" should be used are a coherent topic that isn't discussed elsewhere. This needs to be completely re-worked, and doing so in draft-space will hopefully lower the temperature. Walsh90210 (talk) 01:34, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. No Tamil genocide ever happened. War crimes during the final stages of the Sri Lankan Civil War already exists. We should not trivialize the word "genocide". Lorstaking (talk) 06:21, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. it's some times confusing in most of the world's warring fronts whether it's War Crime or Genocide happend, but there are enough books discuss on Genocide.Lustead (talk) 12:05, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete No genocide against the Tamils ever happened contrary to this POVFORK. ❯❯❯Pravega^g=9.8 16:08, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is a personal opinion with absolutely zero back up as to why HereforOnce777 (talk) 23:15, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Lorstaking. Created by a sock, the article is sending a misleading message. Raymond3023 (talk) 10:25, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 46: / Line 46: @@
 *'''Delete''' No genocide against the Tamils ever happened contrary to this POVFORK. '''<i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;"><span style="color:#AC9F06">❯❯❯</span>[[User:Pravega|<span style="color:#F93B12">Pra</span><span style="color:#098922">vega</span>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[User talk:Pravega|g=9.8]]</sup></i>''' 16:08, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 *:This is a personal opinion with absolutely zero back up as to why [[User:HereforOnce777|HereforOnce777]] ([[User talk:HereforOnce777|talk]]) 23:15, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
+*'''Delete''' per Lorstaking.  Created by a sock, the article is sending a misleading message. [[User:Raymond3023|Raymond3023]] ([[User talk:Raymond3023|talk]]) 10:25, 26 May 2024 (UTC)