Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Christian: Difference between revisions

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Those of you who have never heard of David Christian would do well to understand that he was also the person responsible for getting the seed money to build the The Wall in Washington D.C. for Vietnam soldiers who were killed in action. If it wasn't for David, our veterans of all wars would not be receiving the benefits they are very much in need of and definitely deserve. Someone has been messing with this page before I was asked to watch over it, and we would do ourselves and any veteran an injustice if this information was removed. Please note that David still works on behalf of veterans of all wars to this day (July 14, 2007) and continues to search for POW's. I will correct whatever is wrong or not allowed on this page.

David Christian

I've debated this one for a long time, and finally decided to nominate for deletion. For starters virtually all the infomation on the page is referenced from www.davechristian.com. As the reference material is all from the subject's website, there is no real verifiability. Second, the whole thing reads like an advertisement/shrine to David Christian. As a serious, not casual, student of American military history, I have to admit I've never heard of David Christian. While I don't doubt the man is a veteran, and probably earned the awards listed, the article claims he is the "Most Decorated American officer in the Vietnam War." Fine, except that the same has been said of many other people. "Most decorated" is a highly subjective term, and usually self awarded by people, as the Pentagon, to my knowledge, never refers to anyone as the "most highly decorated." There are plenty of people who earned Distinguished Service Crosses, are Vietnam veterans, etc. but aren't necessarily notable. The only article that links here is Silver Star, and only because one of the editors to this article added his name to that article. The article has pictures showing him with famous people, but that does not confer notability. The book he wrote is out of print, so apparently not a huge demand for it. I guess to sum up, this seems more like using wikipedia as an advertiment space/shrine than an encyclopedic article, and is unverifiable from third party sources. The tone of the article doesn't help either, nor the fact that most of the editors on the page have edited only this article, or other ones to point to this article. Nobunaga24 15:00, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Strong and very speedy delete My suggestion--do it now. Obvious G11 ... the most blatant vanispamcruftisement I've ever seen. Blueboy 96 16:06, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Note to closing admin Take any "keep" votes with a truckload of salt--the article is linked on the guy's Web site. That of course assumes that this isn't speedied or snowballed. Blueboy 96 16:12, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Delete. No independent third-party non-trivial sources to confirm anything that's said here, and after 20 minutes searching I can't find any on Google. You'd think Vietnam's most decorated soldier would have been written about in articles on the war or on veterans, millions of which are available online, but I can't find any, which makes me question even his existence. Anybody can create a website. I'll assume good faith and not cry WP:HOAX, but again, you'd think such a highly-decorated veteran would be mentioned by somebody. --Charlene 16:17, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Look at the last reference. Callelinea 17:16, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, WP:VSCA applies with all the peacock language and the passel of gladhanding photographs. Promotional activity for his motivational speaking career, basically. I can see G11 but the guy does have some claims of notability making it a little borderline. --Dhartung | Talk 16:28, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Question: I've searched in the Wikipedia policy space but haven't found a policy on notability of military veterans. Are there guidelines for military people biographies? Surely being a veteran or a serving member or even a medium officer is not enough. I assume high officers (generals and admirals) are notable. Colonels? Are medal winners automatically notable? Some medal winners and not others? Hu 17:01, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Very Strong Keep, He is decorated War Veteran, SEVEN purple hearts, yes the article needs work, but it can easaly be edited. Al we have to do is neutralze the article.. This guy is VERY NOTABLE. Callelinea 17:15, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Keep in mind that purple hearts -- even multiple purple hearts -- are very common. They are not given out for bravery or merit but for sustaining an injury in a combat environment. Note that John Kerry famously has three and no visible injury from any.--Dhartung | Talk 20:18, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete due to lack of independent verification. As to User:Hu's question, I think that the ordinary WP:BIO guidelines should apply. Namely, the military person should have been discussed in "published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject" to warrant an article. Military rank should not be a criterion in itself. --Metropolitan90 17:25, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I edited the article a bit and added more references, I think this article could not satisfy most of your objections. Callelinea 17:49, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~. Weak Keep after a thorough cleanup (especially the "Youngest Most Decorated"). Medals plus appointment to VA tips it for me. As far as I can tell, he was awarded the DSC, but how that qualifies him as the most decorated, when there were Medal of Honor recipients in the Vietnam War, is beyond me (by quantity maybe?). The Ronald Reagan reference returns "page not found" and the lack of third party references is troubling. Clarityfiend 17:56, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reagan Web page working now. He won the awards in the 1960's. Most of the references are third party references.Callelinea 18:14, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The Steppin' Out reference seems to have stepped out. Clarityfiend 20:50, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, references have been added to assert notability. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(((Broken clamshells • Otter chirps)))} 18:44, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I still don't see an assertion of notability based in references. --Dhartung | Talk 20:18, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

All of his multiple awards?Callelinea 20:39, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Darrenhusted 22:54, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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+Those of you who have never heard of David Christian would do well to understand that he was also the person responsible for getting the seed money to build the The Wall in Washington D.C. for Vietnam soldiers who were killed in action. If it wasn't for David, our veterans of all wars would not be receiving the benefits they are very much in need of and definitely deserve.  Someone has been messing with this page before I was asked to watch over it, and we would do ourselves and any veteran an injustice if this information was removed. Please note that David still works on behalf of veterans of all wars to this day (July 14, 2007) and continues to search for POW's. I will correct whatever is wrong or not allowed on this page.
 ===[[David Christian]]===
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