Talk:Les Liaisons dangereuses

. Changed 'give the story it's body' to the correct 'its body.'

Title capitalization question

I don't think this article's capitalization is correct. It's my understanding that French (and many other European languages) use sentence case for titles, which would render this Les liaisons dangereuses. English-style title capitalization would make it Les Liaisons Dangereuses. The current title, Les Liaisons dangereuses, fits neither. It does reflect German practice, but that is irrelevant. I suspect someone may have used this form because it happens to be exactly how IMDb capitalizes the titles of films based on the novel, which is an artifact of the way they place leading articles at the end of titles. IMDb capitalizes the first significant word as well as the leading article (trailing in their form), but no other words, in non-English titles. (Consider Buono, il brutto, il cattivo, Il, which looks similarly odd when reconstructed as Il Buono, il brutto, il cattivo). Unless I'm wrong about French capitalization practice, we should move this article either to the French (my vote) or English form. Any comments? ~ Jeff Q (talk) 05:05, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Good point. Indeed my paper copy of the book has Les liaisons dangereuses (and the blurb refers to the film as such too) - but otoh the French Wikipedia page has Les Liaisons dangereuses. Not sure what to make of that. --Zeborah 10:14, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the pointer. I didn't even think of checking w:fr:Les Liaisons dangereuses. I was going to ask there for advice, but then I dusted off my rusty French (with a little help from Altavista Babel Fish) and read their pages on capitalization and typographical conventions, which said that if the title is a phrase beginning with an article, the first significant word is capitalized. They seem to disagree whether the article is capitalized, but (for now) that's irrelevant on en:Wikipedia, which requires first-word capitalization for article titles. (The whole thing looks a little odd to me, but then again, how very weird must English capitalization rules must seem to others. ☺) I did notice, however, that the website cited in w:fr:Talk:Les Liaisons dangereuses, Gallica, which includes an online text for Liaisons and other works, listed its contents in the same sentence case that English libraries use; i.e., capitalizing first word and proper nouns only. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 14:24, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Surely we should not be using French titles in the English wiki? How about moving this to Dangerous Liaisons (novel)? Bastie 20:14, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I could be mistaken, but I think that even in the English-speaking world the book is known largely by its French-language title. FWIW, I have within arms reach Wayland Young's Eros Denied; he calls it by its French-language title. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:05, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

There doesn't seem to be agreement among publishers, either:

• The Oxford's World Classics English translation lists it as Les Liaisons dangereuses (see Amazon.com, Oxford University Press, USA; New Ed edition (March 18, 1999) ISBN 0192838679)
• Penguin titles it as Les Liaisons Dangereuses (see Amazon.com, Penguin Classics; Reprint edition (November 30, 1961) ISBN 0140441166)
• Amazon and Barnes & Noble list the Everyman's Library edition as Les Liaisons Dangereuses; the cover of the book is in all upper-case, so it's not really clear how the publisher titled it (see Amazon.com, Everyman's Library; Reprint edition (June 30, 1992) ISBN 0679413251 or Barnes & Noble)
• The title is also in all upper-case for the Barnes & Noble Classics Series edition, ISBN 1593082401; their website lists it as Les Liaisons Dangereuses.
• A mass-market textbook French edition published by Garnier-Flammarion (ISBN 2080707582, Pub. Date: January 1996) uses Les Liaisons dangereuses.

As for other novel titles in French rather than English, I've yet to see Les Miserables rendered in English; on the other hand however, in the English-speaking world, Alexandre Dumas's The Count of Monte Cristo, The Man in the Iron Mask, and The Three Musketeers use their English title equivalents, not the original French. Just more evidence that there seems to be a lack of consistency.

It would seem Wikipedia may use either "Les Liaisons dangereuses" or "Les Liaisons Dangereuses" with impunity, as both versions have been used extensively by others. (I didn't find a reference to an edition using "Les liaisons dangereuses", however.) The easiest thing to do would be to leave it as is to avoid redirects.—Chidom ^talk  19:44, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Cecile

What happens to her?

Jackiespeel 17:32, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

I've just rewritten large chunks of the plot (intended to just add a bit at the end, but it kind of grew on me) - hopefully that helps. --Zeborah 08:42, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Mme de Tourvel's fate

An anonymous edit changed my "also dies" to "commits suicide" so I've checked my copy of the book again. I can't find any mention of suicide there: in letter CXLVII she's said to have a fever, and in letter CLXV her final hours are described in great detail, again with no signs of suicide. In fact Father Anselme is described as having much wept -- which I take as being a sign that he finds her Christian resignation moving. When suicide was considered a sin, I don't think he'd have wept so for someone who willingly killed themself. This seems to also be the attitude of Mme de Volanges, and the expected attitude of Mme de Rosemond. There being no evidence for suicide, I'm changing the phrase in question to "succumbs to a fever". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zeborah (talk • contribs) 7 Sept 2005.

"Revenge is a dish best served cold"

It is often wrongly attributed as the the origin of the saying "Revenge is a dish best served cold", a paraphrased translation of Laclos's "La vengeance est un plat qui se mange froid.". OK. I'll bite. What then is the earlier source? - Jmabel | Talk 01:39, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I haven't found anything earlier, but probably the person who changed that sentence was thinking that the Star Trek saying was created independently of the Dangerous Liaisons saying. I'm not so sure: IIRC the speaker, Khan, was familiar with Shakespeare, so why not with Laclos as well? :-) But without being sure I don't like to revert the change, and I haven't yet figured out an alternate phrasing to keep the ambiguity clear... --Zeborah 18:43, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Star Trek??? Pretty silly. I've always been pretty confident it was Laclos. I am restoring: it sounds like, insofar as there is any basis to say he didn't originate it, it is that he wasn't writing in English. Duh. - Jmabel | Talk 03:28, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

I have searched for the phrase in both English and French online versions of "Les Liaisons dangereuses" but so far have failed to find it, leading me to doubt that it actually appears in the novel. --Primatebuddy 14:14, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

According to wikipedia's Revenge article, the quote in its current English form is generally attributed to Dorothy Parker. The attribution of the French form to Laclos as the first attributed instance of the quote seems fairly widespread. john k 16:28, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

It does seem widespread and mistakenly so. Having searched not only for the phrase itself but also the word "vengeance" yields nothing even related to the spirit of the phrase much less the phrase itself. --Primatebuddy 12:26, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Indeed it isn't there. I'm fixing the article.--82.93.10.238 16:52, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Fools that phrase is from Shakespeare's MacBeth...

Another adaptation

I seem to be watching a version of Les Liaisons dangereuses on the "Artes" channel in France. This is an English version (they're showing it with French titles), and apparently American (maybe) - there certainly aren't too many clear British accents. It is not the Malkovich/Glenn Close version, and it's obviously more recent than the 1959 version. The 1980 version is apparently in French, and the 2003 miniseries has Rupert Everett, which this version also, clearly, does not. The only actor I recognize is a minor character who looks distinctly like Jeffrey Jones. Anyone have any idea what this version is? john k 19:56, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Wow, it appears to be Valmont, already listed here, so never mind. Odd that two adaptations of the book showed up within a year of each other. Odd also that I didn't immediately recognize Colin Firth or Annette Bening. john k 20:08, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Infobox

Why do we have an Infobox picking out one translation of this much-translated work? - Jmabel | Talk 06:56, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

We shouldn't in fact the emphasis in the infobox should be on the first edition and it's initial or "major" English translation. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 10:15, 25 September 2006 (UTC)