Talk:The Magician (tarot card)

Anyone have a problem with this being moved to The Magician (tarot)? It fits better with the naming, and then can better be linked to from a disambiguation page. - UtherSRG 01:15, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. --Spikey 02:25, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Titles are generally disambiguated by what they are, so I would prefer The Magician (Tarot card) (I think Tarot is always capitalized). There are other exceptions, for various reasons, so it isn't vital, but The Magician is not a Tarot, it is a Tarot card. Tuf-Kat

According to Wikipedia:Disambiguation,

The word or phrase in parentheses should be one of two things: a generic noun describing what the specific title is an instance of (for example, Mercury (element), Seal (mammal)); or the subject or context to which the term applies (for example, Union (set theory), Inflation (economics)).

So it can be either. I think I agree in this case, though. --Spikey 02:50, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I agreed. :) UtherSRG 03:17, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I found articles in both The Magician (Tarot card) and The Magician (Tarot). I merged the information into The Magician (Tarot card) as this seems to be the prevailing naming scheme. The Magician (Tarot) is now a redirect. Spudtater 19 Apr 2005

I removed the "Examples" section since it was entirely Original Research which Wikipedia does not allow. I left the "mythopoeteic interpretation" section because that may have come from a reputable source but it seems to be something based on personal interpretation like the "Examples" section. - DNewhall

Unverifiable and unbalanced content

The article is just personal opinions from an occult enthusiast about the nature and meaning of a particular tarot card. No peer reviewed books or journal articles are cited. No references or footnotes are given. When a new statement is added, the source needs to be cited, and the source needs to be verifiable, and reliable. Waite is not an unbiased, factual source on the history or evolution of tarot cards. The work can be cited properly, however: "Waite's opinion in his book The Pictorial Key to the Tarot ... etc" The other sources are definitely of questionable academic weight.

The card in question has a history of over 500 years in European card games in which it is used as trump card (see Tarocchi). The article is unbalanced in that it only features the recent uses of the card for divination. This makes the article biased due to its recentism. Since the article ignores use of the card for game play in Europe and other parts of the world, it offers an anglo-american perspective that raises NPOV issues. There are academic sources and sources from international organizations discussing the history and evolution of the "Mountebank" card as well as its use in games. (Bateleur implies juggler or mountebank, not a "wand bearer". The original names were The Bagatto or The Bagatella.) Such sources need to be utilized. - Parsa 07:43, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

other names and roles

We might also add that the card is more commonly known as the Pagat - at least for card games - where it often has an important role as the lowest trump. There tend to be special bonuses for winning the last trick with this card and posessing it in your trick pile makes a big difference in the popular French game where, along with the Fool/Excuse and the Mond, it is is known as a 'bout'.