Talk:Akatsuki (Naruto)

Itachi

Does anyone notice in this section involving Itachi Uchiha that it says Main article: Itachi Uchiha but the the links just directs us to Itachi's Akatsuki page and not his main page with the plot overviw and stuff. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.121.42.181 (talk) 00:32, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

The page was merged due to not satisfying WP:FICT. The link to that page has been removed from this article. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 00:34, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

merged my ass, you just deleted the page--Mhart54com 01:25, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

All the relevant information is already there. Anything else is extraneous plot or in-universe details that don't need to be included. In any case, read WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL before you decide to write a comment like that. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 01:50, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

why do you think your above me?--Mhart54com 01:54, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Why are you trying to deflect the issue to a matter of personal opinion? Address the problem or don't bother replying. It helps no one when you throw unfounded accusations. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 02:27, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

If it makes you feel any better, Mhart, I think I'm above you. It has something to do with you thinking that Madara cannot possibly be Tobi and that "you're right and we're all wrong". Speak Qwerty 07:16, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm so glad you can assume good faith with other editors. In any case, until someone satisfies WP:FICT, the article is not going to be restored. There's really no way around it; ergo, spend less time arguing here and more time searching for relevant information. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 07:18, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

That was a joke, didnt you see the giant star i gave TheUltimate3. I did it too see if admins could revert more then 3 times. since no dam admins would tell me. you sound tough for someone who has only been here for 2 days. dont start with me!--Mhart54com 10:30, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Get over yourself, Mhart. I've been here for longer than two days, I just haven't made an account until recently. Besides, as evident with you, time is clearly not an indicator of maturity. Speak Qwerty 16:37, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Calm down before you say something you shouldn't. The two of you are both Wikipedians, correct? If so then you should show each other some respect.Sam ov the blue sand, Editor Review 20:50, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

You didn't merge it, you deleted it and kept little info. And no one, except the admins, is above anyone else. Jazz Band Member 21:47, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Sephiroth can't delete things, so the article's history and talk page still exist. That qualifies as a merge. ~SnapperTo 22:12, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

And not even admins are above anyone please read the page on adimins and read what Jimbo has to say about them.Sam ov the blue sand, Editor Review 22:35, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I suggest something be put in about how it almost seems that Itachi still likes his brother as seen in chapter 146 and after Kisame thinks Sasuke is dead he describes Itachi as looking like hes crying about it in issue 364. —Preceding unsigned comment added by OOMYK007 (talk • contribs) 04:56, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok first of all, will everybody stop the personal attacks, I dont think we should add the thing about Itachi crying and we don't know is he was--Blue-Eyes Gold Dragon 07:44, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

How about adding to his article about how pretty much everything Itachi has done has been the driving force behind almost all of Sauske's actions in the show. Or his encounter with Orochimaru which caused Orochimaru's defection and in turn desire for Sauske's sharingan? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.139.205 (talk) 16:33, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Orochimaru left Akatsuki before the events of naruto, and I think the itachi thing is on the sasuke's page —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blue eyes gold dragon (talk • contribs) 16:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Nah Orochimaru left Akatsuki because he tried to take over Itachi's body while they were both in Akatsuki and Itachi took his hand for it it's been explained in the manga and even the show. I also don't think someone should have to by happenstance be forced to read about something intimate between 2 separate characters via 1 characters info/page/view —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.139.205 (talk) 17:20, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Also the relationship between Sauske and Itachi is highly relevant to the manga/show their characters and the characters around sauske in particular. Itachi is a very important character with plenty of information regarding him and his actions thus far to downplay his importance in a manner to insinuate that he doesn't need and is undeserving of his own page is sad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.139.205 (talk) 17:30, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

He failed to meet WP:FICT and all that info was out of universe and therefore he could not have his own article. the disscussion is closed and a concensus was reached so until kishimoto releases some charachter creation info or he does soemthing like die.Sam ov the blue sand, Editor Review 20:49, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

If Itachi's personal article still exists in its "History" form, then may I please view it? Kageryushin 19:18, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[1] ~SnapperTo 21:24, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I think I might have found something. What's this about a weasel being a harbinger associated with bad fortune and Itachi meaning weasel?? Oh, i think it's a third-party source. Now correct me if I am wrong here, but I think I stumbled on this third-party source that tells why Kishimoto chose the mane Itachi for this particular character. Oh man. How could we have overlooked this?? A non-WP:ILIKEIT reason for keeping the article was staring us right in the face. But of course, I have been wrong before. ItachiUchihaArticleForTheWin 06:03, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

New Akatsuki members?

In ch. 369, it shows Pein going to sleep, opening six giant canisters, and waking up again. After that, you see six people emerge from the canisters, but you can't see their faces. The pictures were a little blurry, but I think those six people were wearing Akatsuki cloaks! It was a cloak that looked exactly like Akatsuki cloaks (yes, they were black). I'm not positive if it had red clouds on it or not, but it looked like it. Anyway, it's got something covering those cloaks. Even though I couldn't see the faces, I think one of them was Kakuzu. Who knows? Therefore, Pein is either recruiting new Akatsuki members, resurrecting deceased Akatsuki members (Deidara, Sasori, Hidan, Kakuzu, Orochimaru, and an unknown), or he could just be using completely new ninja to do his bidding. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.181.50.107 (talk) 22:48, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Wait until tommorrow and we'll go from there although i doubt we will have any info to go on.Sam ov the blue sand, Editor Review 23:21, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

I was told by a reliable source that those six guys where more Peins. Who knows.--TheUltimate3 23:58, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

He could also be using a cloning jutsu similar to the one he used on Itachi and Kiname(sp).74.74.83.251 00:22, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I saw that too. To me it appeared to be new members in Akatsuki cloaks. Tho one DID resemble Kakuzu...and was it just me or did that pic have Pein open his eyes and them appear to be like Shukakus (Spl?)? Chipmonk328 7 September 2007

His eyes were normal. I noticed the one parallel to Pein was rather large and I remember there being an unnamed, large Akatsuki during the first meeting in Part I. So, I would bet he's doing something with their deceased bodies, some Shang Tsung theatrics perhaps. Regardless, that's all speculation so there isn't much that can be put in an article for now. Intellect Ninja 00:50, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

On Pein's section, it says that Pein is switching into six different bodies. Is this true? no right now alll we know is that akatsuki is doing sumtin with bodies one looked odly like kakuzu and the other big one cold be deidara since he did explode he might be just deflating or sumtin but we have to wait till next week to find out —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.159.197.82 (talk) 03:35, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Can anyone tell the meaning of the words in front of the bodies? Enoch08 05:07, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Well they aren't the sysmbols on their rings, but I think those are the 6 remaining Akatsuki members. ChristianC September 8 2007

I apologise for that. Now I see it is just normal eyes. It was cuz it was the leaked version and hadn't been cleaned up yet. Now that I have the cleaned up version, I have this to say. No, one did not resemble Deidara. I thot one looked like Kakuzu, but thats Pain. SO, I belive it to be as follows. Pain, Sasori (note the big body), Zetsu (he IS still alive after all..), Konan, Kisame (note that hes not with Itachi, who is going to fight sasuke and said to come alone.), and I'm not sure of the last one. It couldn't be Tobi, IMO becuase, if the theory is correct, He'll be going to the shrine as well to meet Sasuke and Itachi to ressurect Tengu. But then, would they also need Kakashi due to his Mangekyo sharingan? (Note that Sasuke got his in the valley of the end battle http://saiyanisland.com/naruto/?naruto=info/Sharinganin ) and what of Naruto? He has a key part of unlocking Tengu, the nine tailed fox. (Sorry for going off topic, but its an intersting thought to think about.)---Chipmonk328 9 September 2007

There is still no information about the bodies. You're going to have to wait another week. I think it's worthy to mention though, that the eyes were NOT normal. Pein went to sleep, and presumably woke up in another body, but he still had the spiral eyes. There is nobody left in Akatsuki that matches those bodies, either. Zetsu's body only gets bigger around the neck, not the gut, and Sasori doesn't even look human in puppet form. It's just a collection of bodies (probably of legendary ninja, but maybe not). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.152.121.199 (talk) 04:28, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

No Sasuke DOES NOT have mangekyou sharingan, go read the manga or watch the anime again. I made a post about this on a forum, and after extensive answers, it's been confirmed that he DOES NOT possess it. Period. Note that the section on his three-bladed sharingan has been removed from your linked website; check it out. It was probably a blurred picture or a deluded anime watcher, but it probably stayed on the website because no one monitored that page. Anyway, the bodies seem to just be multiple bodies for Pein to use himself, meaning that they are NOT akatsuki members (until pein enters them i guess. Just because they were wearing the cloaks doesn't mean they were any of the members we knew. Its just so he has his normal clothes on for everyday purposes. We should just give them a mention and wait for further information as to what they really are.60.52.125.108 07:57, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Are you certain of this? Because this wasn't the only site where I have seen this image. I'm admittedly bothered by this, but I got to wonder about it. --Chipmonk32817 September 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.128.107.129 (talk) 05:08, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Quite sure. Unless someone can find a non-altered, canonical and non-fan-made picture somewhere to prove this (or find an anime screenshot), then it stands that sasuke DOES NOT have MS. Also, he did mention how he was going to "attain power his own way" and not by following itachi's will( that is, to kill his best friend to get MS). So unless further proof turns up, or future chapters verify this, I say it's not possible. Thousands of manga readers and anime watchers do not remember seeing this. Like i said, its probably a hoax or something.N Dot W 02:47, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

the mangekyou sharingan doesnt matter to me but just because thats what you think those bodies were doesnt mean thats what they are, after all, everyone thought we'd know who the al was...turns out it was some random guy living in the rain village. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Threatening force (talk • contribs) 02:59, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

If those bodies belonged to the remaining members (which makes sense seeing as there are six of them, and Tobi was there for a moment at least it looked like his mask and he made mention of finding the intruder) then the bigt guy was likely Zetsu (not the dead Sasori or whoever the hell else you may think it was) to account for his bulky fly-trap things. Or if I could find the image then I could look at the Kanji on his cylinder and tell you who's ring he is.

Most of you remember that Pein has used the ability to use the bodies of subordinates in order to create "clones" of akatsuki members. Now, it could be fallen akatsuki members that Pein has in those chambers, but I believe that he has used a jutsu on other subordinates to provide himself with vessels. Think about it. Some members of akatsuki appear to have found different ways of extending their lives. Orochimaru, Sasori, Kakazu, Hidan, and Tobi, have all shown that they have indeed lived longer than usual. This could be Pein's method of longer life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RogueFox (talk • contribs) 16:38, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Pein

Can someone add that Pein shares a remarkable resemblence to Naruto?

Maybe he's a ressurected Nawaki or Naruto's long lost brother of some sort. just some suggestions

Original research. They don't even look remotely alike in any case. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 00:01, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Don't play ignorant. They definitely have a similar design. Nevertheless, Wikipedia is not for speculations and opinions. Intellect Ninja 02:17, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Intellect Ninja, they DO have a resemblance, but that information isnt up to Wikipedia Standards.-- Chipmonk328 7 September 2007

i have to admit they do have a similar body structure similar build hair style but many people do have naruto's hairstyle an remember in the latest chapter he's belived to be a fuuma or something so he cant be nawaki or related to nauto --209.159.197.82 03:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

This is Shonen Manga. There's no such thing as "can't". If Kishimoto wants them to be related, they will be related. Like I said before though, Wikipedia is not for speculation and opinions. Intellect Ninja 16:15, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Even so, in the manga that just came out, they said that kyuubi charkra was divided into halves of good and evil. maybe good is in Naruto and evil is in pein. I know wikipedia isn't for speculation but it is just something to think about. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.83.88.199 (talk) 02:56, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Wow. I agree with Sephiroth... I cant say anything about the likeness, but until it comes out in NMR, we shouldnt change anything. withiout proof, wikipedia will just end up like those forums where any info is considered true. The best thing is not to argue... *cough Chipmonk and the guy above me cough*, but to wait for updates... jasonlee1037 17:36, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

The "evil" chakra is in the frog. In any case, I have to agree with Sephiroth and Jason; apart from their silhouettes, Pein and Naruto look nothing alike. Regardless, this is getting a bit forumish (I just had to get the last word in ^_^) You Can't Review Me!!! 02:51, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Tobi's Identity

The Akatsuki page states that Tobi is Madara Uchiha, while Tobi simply states in Chapter 364, page 18 that his power and Madara's are one and the same, i.e. "My power, Madara's power". It is a strong possibility that Tobi may simply be working for Madara or acting as a conduit for him, but regardless there is no conclusive evidence that the two characters are one and the same. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alwayssummerdays (talk • contribs) 19:09, 9 September 2007 (UTC) Traditional Japanese speach commonly speaks in the third person in which case, Tobi was referring to himself and Uchiha Madara. that and kishimoto wanted to reveal his identity with crazy climax and that was how he chose to do it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.111.232.107 (talk) 20:34, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I'll clear this up for the people who are clueless as to Japanese. I am no expert, but I am taking the JLPT and I have studied Japanese and act as an amateur translator. What Tobi says exactly is:「写輪眼の本当の力が・・・このうちはマダラの力が 」Which in roumaji transliterates to "Sharingan no hontou no chikara ga...kono Uchiha Madara no chikara ga." Which in English literally means: "The Sharingan's true power...this/that, Uchiha Madara's power." Now, I and other amateur translators suggested on the forums where this Japanese was discussed that it meant he was referring to the "power of Uchiha Madara" which meant the Sharingan or something like that. However, expert translators and native Japanese have said that the "kono" which is usually used as a demonstrative adjective for "this/that (object)" is used sort of as a pronoun in reference to himself (a supervillain way, some translators said as when Zabuza said "Kono Momochi Zabuza" to refer to say "I am Momochi Zabuza") and his power. And the translation has been looked at over and over again by experts in Japanese and that seems to be the general consensus. So, wisen up and accept the translation! The great kawa 01:47, 28 July 2007 (UTC) --Blue-EyesGold Dragon 03:20, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I can't get it. If japanese supervillains say kono for I, it would mean: I, Uchiha Madara's power. Isn't he saying that he HAS Madara's power instead he IS Madara? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.1.19.19 (talk) 22:20, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Okay, im going to add aswell. according to the most recent chapter at this present time in which this message was posted, Uchiha Madara was just shown in a picture as an older looking Sasuke (like in his 20's) It was also said that he was the founder of the Uchiha Clan, and was defeated by the fourth due to a discrepency. Tobi is then seen standing on a statue of Madara laughing.

Where to begin. First of all, he looks nothing like an older-looking Sasuke to me. He looks, if anything, somewhat-similar to Curse-Seal Stage 2 Sasuke. It never said he was defeated by the fourth. It said he was defeated by the FIRST. There was no mention of any discrepancy, and there was no laughing when he was standing on the statue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.99.127.210 (talk) 23:05, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

            -blubbernuget, i dunoo how to do teh `````21:31, 14 September 2007 (UTC)` tidl whatever thing.

the manga states that madara uchiha was DEFEATED not killed by the first hokage. Also if people dont believe that tobi is madara, 1. itachi wiped out all known uchiha members, 2. kakuzu was able to fight the 1st hokage and lived so why cant someone else. My friend says that it could possibly be obito uchiha, because: 1. obito gave kakashi his left eye, while tobi's mask only reveals his right eye. 2.the pins in tobi's arms could be medical pins to heal his crushed arms. 3. obito and tobi (the names) look similar. 4. obito was like naruto as a kid and still retains his goofiness. -tavaresiroc

Not the Tobi is Obito theory again. Why can't you theory-makers just shut up and wait and see what Kishimoto reveals? Anyway, back to the main issue. Tobi never does say he is Madara. He simply states that he has the power of Uchiha Madara, and then they do a close up on his Sharingan. This leads us to believe the Sharingan in the power of Madara, which makes sense, considering Madara was supposed to have founded the Uchiha Clan. On top of that, Madara would be somewhere between 92-112 in the current arc, and not even Sandaime could move in the ways Tobi does. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.116.185.196 (talk) 01:28, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

You know, intellect ninja had a good point. this is not a forum, and should not be treated as such. i will also make sure i keep this in mind for the future. we should not discuss such issues as "theory" on this page. the main topics that should be discussed are discrepency in "FACTS", and not matters of opinion. the only facts we have are that tobi said, " my power, uchiha madara's power" which means tobi is madara. also, it is quite possible for madara to be alive still due to the fact that there are several members of akatsuki that have found ways to extend there lives. this has not been shown to be the case with tobi, so, the only thing we can do is wait and see what actually happens, rather than speculate and make theories. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RogueFox (talk • contribs) 18:58, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Pein is from the Fuuma clan

it was said that in chapter 369 page 7 that Pein's blood was from the Fuuma clan. I just wanted to let you know that and that Remnants of the former Amegakure were searching for Pein and trying to kill him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Temari y (talk • contribs) 22:02, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Can we say his name is then Pein Fuma, isn't it his clans name? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.223.202.247 (talk) 13:20, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

The guy only said it was rumored... he never said it was a fact. Jazz Band Member 20:43, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

So, fillers DO count... interesting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.1.19.19 (talk) 22:17, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

.....um...I wouldn't call that a filler--Blue-EyesGold Dragon 23:10, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

The "rumor" that Pein is from the Fuma clan is canon. If it is said in the manga, then that is what should be considered canon. And no, fillers do not count, and should not count. Also, since it is "rumored" and has not been proven yet, I don't feel it should be included in Pein's description.

Tobi's Mangekyou

At the end of Chapter 370, if you look at Tobi's Sharingan it appears to be the same type of Mangekyou Sharingan as Itachi's. I happened to be reading a smaller edition of the chapter but after close inspection it's unmistakable. Of course, it (could) just be Kishimoto drawing small due of a lack of space, but atm it is safe to assume that Tobi has access to the Mangekyou. AnimeNikkaJamal 18:57, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

No, that's just regular Sharingan. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 19:03, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

(Link: http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/chapter370discussion.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=44880 ) That appears to be a Mangekyou similar to Itachi's. If you disagree or think this picture is false, show me to another picture (of the same page in the chapter). AnimeNikkaJamal 23:47, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

No, that's just regular Sharingan. Mangekyo fills the pupil completely. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 23:51, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

OMG He's right! I cant belive I didnt notice sooner! Look, Kakashi's looked different to Itachi's first off. Plus, the one we saw breifly in the VOTE battle (Sasuke's M. Sharingan perhaps?) also appeared different. So thats at least 3 different Mangekyo Sharingan. Whats not to say their is another? Granted, at this point it can be considered Speculation, but it also cannot be ruled out.--Chipmonk328 17 September 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.128.107.129 (talk) 05:01, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

And WHERE and WHEN exactly did we see sasuke's MS? I believe i posted about this in one of the earlier discussions, so go look it up. Has anyone here personally SEEN an original image of sasuke supposed "brief" MS? Does it appear at the END of the battle or the middle or what? there isn't any proof. I even went through the episodes (briefly) and even watched the climax nearly frame by frame (if anyone could catch the MS by watching the show at normal speed, they would most likely have sharingan themselves). So don't quote things you read on any old website, only verifiable sources. And no Tobi does not have MS, take a closer look at a scanlated version of CH370.N Dot W 03:04, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

By "VOTE battle", I'm assuming you mean the Top 5 Battles special near the end of the fillers. There was no MS displayed; that was simply Sasuke's two-tomoe Sharingan developing into a three-tomoe Sharingan. You Can't Review Me!!! 03:07, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Valley of the end battle? lol. Near the end. I could be wrong. But thats what has been stated.--Chipmonk328

i cant remember where i saw, but i remember like a swirly vortex "thing" coming from what appeared to be tobi's mask. Does anyone know what im talking about, does anyone know what that wasThreatening force 03:05, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Please stop saying that Tobi is Madara uchiha T_T

You read the headline, so you know what I want done.

All over on Wikipedia it keeps saying that he's Madara Uchiha. HE'S NOT!! They've shown a real picture of madara, and that's not him, obviously.

I know that in the manga he says "He has Uchiha Madara's power... my power..." but what he actually means is that he has the SAME power as Sasuke, he is NOT saying that he is Madara.

So SOMEONE needs to get on there and change that! please —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.149.22.27 (talk) 01:06, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Sure, right after the Fourth Hokage isn't said to be Naruto's father. We've had this discussion a million times. He's Madara. Deal with it. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 01:09, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I'll clear this up for the people who are clueless as to Japanese. I am no expert, but I am taking the JLPT and I have studied Japanese and act as an amateur translator. What Tobi says exactly is:「写輪眼の本当の力が・・・このうちはマダラの力が 」Which in roumaji transliterates to "Sharingan no hontou no chikara ga...kono Uchiha Madara no chikara ga." Which in English literally means: "The Sharingan's true power...this/that, Uchiha Madara's power." Now, I and other amateur translators suggested on the forums where this Japanese was discussed that it meant he was referring to the "power of Uchiha Madara" which meant the Sharingan or something like that. However, expert translators and native Japanese have said that the "kono" which is usually used as a demonstrative adjective for "this/that (object)" is used sort of as a pronoun in reference to himself (a supervillain way, some translators said as when Zabuza said "Kono Momochi Zabuza" to refer to say "I am Momochi Zabuza") and his power. And the translation has been looked at over and over again by experts in Japanese and that seems to be the general consensus. So, wisen up and accept the translation! The great kawa 01:47, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

And after my fourth edit conflict with SineBot today, I end up EdConning with Someguy... Thanks... You Can't Review Me!!! 01:10, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

So since Madara had long hair ~70 years ago and Tobi has short hair today, they're completely different people? What, do haircuts not exist in Naruto? ~SnapperTo 03:37, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Not unless they're doing it for symbolic reasons, apparently. I think Sakura's the only cast member to actually get a haircut. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 04:43, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Ino copies Sakura soon after that, and Lee had a ponytail when he was younger. Those are the only noticeable hair decreases that come to mind. ~SnapperTo 21:31, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Tobi may claim he is Madara but keep in mind it still doesn't confirm the fact that he actually is Madara. Tobi is revealed to be a goofy person so maybe he could be lying and just like to refer himself to someone of great power. Enoch08 08:24, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Because someone of Pein's status would take orders from a goofy new recruit without any proof? You Can't See Me! 08:50, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Also, we do take that into account. Note that we say he "refers to himself" as said character. We may not believe he's lying, but our bases are covered regardless. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 08:53, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

We know this much for sure: if he isnt Madara, we know hes an uchiha becuase we've seen his sharingan more than once.side note: I hate that people kept thinkin he's obito. look, his body was crushed. Which means...HE HAS NO BODY! So even the theory that Madara inhabits his body is dumb. Granted, Orochimaru did have that one technique. But I doubt they'd use it in this. It'd be too redundent plot wise.--Chipmonk32819 September 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.128.107.129 (talk) 14:26, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

in my opinion tobi's identity is still unsure apart from one page they've yet to use the name madara in association with tobi i mean until its known for sure you shouldnt go around claiming its the truth i mean some people (myself excluded) actually use this site to confirm facts so isnt the whole point of wikipedia to make sure that the information is 100% accurate before putting it up - Xeogen

Use some context was there really any reason for Tobi to tell Pein and Konan 'I am Uchiha Madara' if they already knew that and were working for him the whole time? he may have said 'I am Uchiha Madara's power' or reffered to the power being his, and in context it is far more likely. Plus in chapter 370, at the end, it was ambiguous about his identity. -FFFX —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.31 (talk) 15:15, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Probably for the same reason that villains stereotypically tell the heroes their plans, to reveal crucial details of the plot to the audience, regardless of how unlikely it would be in a realistic scenario 66.24.226.134 23:24, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Is Deidara Alive?

I found a blurry summary of ch. 371. I think it says that Jiraiya encounters Deidara. But I'm not 100% certain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.181.53.37 (talk) 10:58, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

No. You saw Jiraiya run into Konan.-DylanUchiha 6:53 EST 21 September 2007

Retarded Merges and Pictures being taken down

I know this is a little off topic. BUT, for those who are tired of the stupid merg orgies that keep happenin with the naruto section on wikipedia...welllll...ther is this: [[2]] Sooo.....if u want more info go ther...tho it does need to be more up to date ther..its getting ther. So now those complaints (at least on my part) are dropped. Also, for others who have been complainin about it, they should now as well.--Chipmonk328 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.128.107.129 (talk) 14:31, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Pein's New Look. (Deidara?)+Pein and Konan's past

Pein's new look greatly resembles Deidara. Check him out! Plus, Pein and Konan are revealed to be former students of Jiraiya (If what I read was correct. Kanji is difficult). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.204.100.226 (talk) 16:57, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I wish I could post a picture of Pein's new look. Unfortunately, I can't. One more thing: Doesn't Pein resemble Naruto or Deidara in any way? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.181.53.37 (talk) 00:19, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

The person in the following pictures does hold a slight resemblence to Deidara, specificaly in regards to his hairstyle, athough it doesn't really seem all that notable. 66.24.226.134 01:20, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

http://bp1.blogger.com/_VkIbHKDK5Dg/RvFxZGtSuaI/AAAAAAAAA0U/aroAgMQv4vY/s1600-h/Naruto+371.jpg http://bp3.blogger.com/_VkIbHKDK5Dg/RvFxPmtSuZI/AAAAAAAAA0M/r2aaV3fUf04/s1600-h/Naruto+371+Naruto+371.jpg

the second one looks nothing like deidera, and i doubt theyd be his student, i mean we just found out for sure that naruto is minatos son, i dont think theyll throw something else big at us for like another 3 yrs lol. but if they did suddenly start revealing crap, people might stop reading and lose interest. whats next, konan is kushina but with dyed hair.....Threatening force 03:12, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

We'll have to wait until there is a verifiable source. No original research please. σмgнgσмg 10:00, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm going out on a limb to say both of thsoe people are Pein's subbordinates and neither Deidara nor Pein. I mean, Piercings don't change that quickly for one, for two Deidara blew hismelf up pretty good. There wasn't any life left in the 10km radius I doubt he did anything to survive that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.31 (talk) 15:27, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Tobi and Sasuke survived. Why not Deidara? He might've had more tricks up his sleeve. Or he might've blown up another clone. I'm not saying Deidara IS alive, but I thought it was best to at least look into this. Why would Kishimoto make Pein's second body resemble Deidara so much? Is he running out of character looks? Then again, just a thought. One more thing: I'm still curious about what Pein's other forms look like. Was it four more, or five more? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.181.53.37 (talk) 22:36, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

But no evidence has been given to infer Deidara's survival. Where the person from chapter 371 has a similar hairstyle to Deidara, his face really looks nothing like him. Further, this resemblence seems largely irrelevant; both Orochimaru and Madara have dark hair which covers their right eye, but this does not mean that they are the same person. 66.24.226.134 23:24, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm thinking Pein cloned himself as Diedra, & that the original Pein isn't really the original Pein, just another clone. Sort of like a Sasori thing. 2:25 Sept. 21

But where does one get the impression that Deidara appears in chapter 371? Where there is someone pictured who has a hairstyle similar to Deidara (though not identical), his face really looks 'nothing' like Deidara's. If anything, he resembles the Third Kazekage (who is already long dead). 66.24.226.134 20:32, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Distinction between Madara and Tobi

To begin with, I am not adding another "Tobi isn't Madara" comment. As of now, the section on Tobi seems to refer to the behaviors he displayed before he was revealed to have authority over Pein and afterword almost interchangibly. For instance, after the article states that he refers to himself as Madara Uchiha, the following sentence goes on to describe the carefree personality he desplayed as "Tobi". In addition, this sections ends by stating that he is implied to be relatively young, despite the fact that Madara was stated to live at the founding of Konaha. What I am suggesting is that this section be reorganized slightly as to enstablish a clear distiction between the personality he displays while interacting with the Akatsuki members, and his personality as "Madara". 66.24.226.134 23:14, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I suggest we do what One Piece did and split the information between Tobi's Akatsuki section and Madara's Land of Fire section, like they did with the CP9 members. Just give the information above the guise of Tobi to Akatsuki and about Madara to Land of Fire, and link to the other sections. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 13:49, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that would be a wise idea, as pretty much the manga says "Tobi is Madara" blah blah blah. No need to link to something we know next to nothing about. I say just make it clear that Tobi is a guise of Madara or (most likely) a split personality that he has control over. --TheUltimate3 15:18, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I more or less agree with what TheUltimate3 suggested, in that the description of Tobi/Madara should not be split up between two pages. Again, what I was preposing was that the personality he displayed as "Tobi", and all the attributes applied to him by others (carefree and goofy, is 'a good boy') be distinguished from how he presented himself while talking with Pein and Konan, regardless of whether the Tobi persona was an elaborate disguise, a dual personality, or any other interpretation (although it would be too soon to mention any of these theories, as they are just that, fan theories). In the same vain that Keyser Söze would not be described as a small time con artist afflicted with cerebral palsy, neither should Madara be described as a carefree and childlike character, unless he is revealed to have behaved as such prior to joining Akatsuki.66.24.226.134 18:29, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

The pictures

I think that there should be pictures of the members and the pictureof the latest face of pein or all the faces —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.201.23.162 (talk) 01:47, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Foundation seems to think otherwise. You Can't See Me! 02:01, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

what do you mean?

You can read, correct? ^_^ If so read the link he gave you it explains everything.Sam ov the blue sand, Editor Review 00:50, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

In universe banner whont go away!

Will somebody please fix the article. The in universe banner is still there and hasn't moved once. This is because you're using tenses, implying that earlier in the series was at an earlier time, which it wasn't it was simply earlier in teh series. Somebody has to clean this up by removing 1) the membership status from each character entry. 2) the categories 'current members' and 'former members' and add 'original members' and 'changes to the Akatsuki roster' or something to that effect. Just because a character dies in chapter 360-something doesn't mean that the character is dead because the character still exists in chapter 340-something. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.31 (talk) 15:21, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I second the first choice, but not the second. If we were to put the two together, then we'd have to put back the Membership Status things, and it would be much more complicated to the reader to know their status. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 21:41, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Why would you need to add the membership status back if you chnaged the categories, both need to go to achieve what must be done. You have to start with the original ten and mention teh changes to teh roster throughout the series. That's all. 'Original members' contains all members except Tobi and possibly Orochimaru, and then mention that Orochimaru left the organization before the series, and on the event of Sasori's death Tobi joined. Other than that the members have been killed off and remain unreplaced after their defeat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.31 (talk) 02:16, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

No, that would be too confusing, and there are better ways of sorting them out, this one being one of them. With fictional series that are still running, you merely use the information in the tone from the latest chapter, book, etc. rather than from the very first chapter. Deidara, Hidan, Kakuzu, Sasori, and Orochimaru left, and Tobi is thought to be dead in this current chapter, so we list them as such. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 13:47, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Konan's past

Konan is jairyas former student but with dyed hair —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.187.163.8 (talk) 19:53, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

The spoilers imply that but we should hold off adding the information until the actual scanlated version comes out. -ScotchMB 21:09, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm not certain how legitimate these pictures are, but it would seem like they could be useful.66.24.226.134 18:39, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

http://bp0.blogger.com/_VkIbHKDK5Dg/RvPZvWaifDI/AAAAAAAAA0s/w21ySDC6XpA/s1600-h/Naruto+371+Spoiler+Pics+and+Summaries+04.jpg http://bp3.blogger.com/_VkIbHKDK5Dg/RvPZkGaifCI/AAAAAAAAA0k/LhdZwI3sIsQ/s1600-h/Naruto+371+Spoiler+Pics+and+Summaries+05.jpg

once again, this is not a forum, and should not be treated as such. until konan is revealed to be jirya's former student, it should not be discussed on this page. stick to discussing the facts, and the subject matter that should be included in descriptions of characters. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RogueFox (talk • contribs) 19:06, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Add on to Pein's Section

Shouldn't we give any info about his new form? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.181.53.37 (talk) 01:13, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

You must not know about Wiki's trivial traditions. No information about Pein's new form will be added until the chapter comes out. Intellect Ninja 11:33, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

What are yu talking about? The new chapter already is out! It came out in Japan on Wednesday! I read and looked at it with my own eyes! Pein's new body, him and Konan being Jiraiya's students, it said it all! This is fact! Not speculation! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.181.53.37 (talk) 20:16, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

But the large majoirty have not. Most people wait until the proof is out to "everyone" when there is a subbed release. No sub that the majoirity can find is equal to saying "no release". Interesting huh?--TheUltimate3 20:22, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I suppose that makes sense. Very well. I'll wait for a subbed version to come out. Sorry. It's just, I can read Japanese. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.181.53.37 (talk) 20:28, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Pein/Itachi/Madara

Pein: In Chapter 369, those six bodies are 6 different Peins. He can change to any of them at will. However, they are modeled after the dead Akastuki members. Also, Pein is NOT the leader of Akastuki. Tobi is. This leads me to my next point.

Tobi: Tobi does not say he is Madara. He MAY say that, but the text can translate 2 ways: "The Sharingan's power, my power, Uchiha Madara's power". "The Sharingan's power, my power. I am Uchiha Madara". This theory is highly believed and is enforced in Chapter 370, which ends with Tobi on top of Madara's statue in the Valley of the End.

Itachi: I do not think that Itachi killed the Uchiha clan of his own free will. I have notcied that Itachi does not want to kill anyone. Anytime he fights he tells them that he does not wish to kill them. I think that Pein or Tobi somehow made Itachi do it. It's also possible that it was a clone made my Pein and that Itachi had nothing to do with it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DylanUchiha (talk • contribs) 22:37, 21 September 2007 (UTC)