Talk:Thomas B. Marsh

"He later left the church over a dispute involving cream"? Please explain. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 02:09, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)

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Please see the paragraph about his wife's dispute over cream. I also removed the following until I can draft out both cause and effect.

This in turn led to the death of Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum in Carthage Jail. Shortly afterwards, Brigham Young led the saints to Salt Lake Valley, Utah due to the intense persecution. WBardwin 04:54, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

WBardin --- This is very good work, it's wonderful to have see all of these bios filled out. It was a real gap to be missing (or to just have stubs) for important people like Hyrum Smith, David W. Patten and Thomas B. Marsh. Overall it's very good, but I do have a couple of problems with some of the details. (1) This cream story is just Mormon folklore; Utah leaders told this yarn long after the fact and there is no contemporary basis for it. Marsh explained very clearly at the time why he left the Saints. He left because he opposed the radical measures depriving the dissenters of the rights and property, he believed that Smith and Rigdon had overracted to the non-Mormon threat, and he was bitterly opposed to the fact that the Mormon militia had burned and looted the homes of non-Mormons in Daviess County. Those serious reasons make the later story of a petty quarrel absurd. (2) Marsh's affadavit did not cause the Haun's Mill Massacre and the other events of the Mormon War. The actions of the Latter Day Saints (sacking Gallatin, attacking the state militia, etc.) which Marsh opposed were the root cause. Marsh's affadavits exascerbated the problem by seeming to confirm the Missourians' worst fears. (3) Also, this last part is just speculation on your part and mine, but I think it's highly unlikely that Marsh would have succeeded Smith if Marsh had remained President of the 12. There was no reason to imagine that the President of the 12 would succeed to the Presidency and Marsh doesn't seem like the same kind of ambitious man that Brigham Young was to cause such an unexpected precedent. However, it surely is true that if Marsh had remained President of the 12 he would have prevented Brigham Young from becoming President of the Church. --John Hamer 06:30, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I've made the changes to the "Falling Away" section. Marsh's contemporary statement, the timing of his apostacy, and a host of contemporary testimony back up the view that he left the church over the burning and looting of Daviess County. This milk cow story may be good sermon material, but it is not backed up by any contemporary account --- or, indeed, any other account. Lacking additional evidence, historians have rejected the later tale in favor of the contemporary accounts. For the standard treatment, see Stephen C., LeSueur, The 1838 Mormon War in Missouri, University of Missouri Press, 1990, pp. 134-137. --John Hamer 16:59, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Marsh wrote his own Autobiography in 1864. I would suggest consulting it for more information on the milk incident. Thank you. User: TingYi 11:17, 21 Oct 2007

Date of George A. Smith sermon

The article states: "Years later, in 1864, George A. Smith claimed in a sermon that Marsh..."

The date of George A. Smith's sermon about the milk and cream was 1856, not 1864.

The Leaven of the Gospel, Etc. Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, pp. 280-291, 4/6/1856 [1].

Index of George A. Smiths discourses is at [2]. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.20.160.251 (talk) 05:03, 29 January 2007 (UTC).