Talk:Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

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Suggestions regarding material that seems POV

I deleted the following material from the lead:

and he is regarded by many as the greatest exponent of Vedic Science in this generation. For example, educators, Drs. Sanford Nidich and Randi Nidich, have described him as "the greatest scientist and teacher in the field of consciousness." Nancy Lonsdorf, M.D., Veronica Butler, M.D., and Melanie Brown, Ph.D. have called him "the preeminent Indian scholar and teacher in the Vedic tradition." Vedic scholar, Peter F. Freund Ph.D., in the introduction to his doctoral dissertation, explains that Maharishi has succeeded in pulling together the various texts of the scattered Vedic Literature into a systematic science, consisting of 40 branches, and has guided its practical application to the field of education. Maharishi has also been recognized as both a silent and a vociferous peacemaker, who has on many occasions gathered volunteer groups of practitioners of his advanced techniques. Their collective practices were said to stem the violence in war-torn areas.

I think I see why it was inserted in the article: Maharishi has sought to introduce many facets of Vedic knowledge in addition to meditation. I think that's a valid point to make in the lead, but we should just give the facts about the various facets (such as Ayurveda and Sthapatya Veda) that he's brought attention to in the West. It doesn't seem appropriate to quote authors saying Maharishi is "the preeminent Indian scholar and teacher in the Vedic tradition" because it seems POV. It's acceptable style for a magazine article, for example, but not an encyclopedia. We can still use the cited sources. Also, we can make the point about Maharishi organizing the 40 branches of the Vedic literature and cite Freund's dissertation, but no need to attribute him in the lead.

Have deleted for now. Let's see what we can do to address these issues. TimidGuy 20:07, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I defer to your wisdom and experience, being a newbie myself.Sueyen 20:58, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Sueyen, for your work on the article. It's really starting to shape up as a more fully developed bio. TimidGuy 16:05, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Politics/Natural Law Party

I feel unable to contribute authoritatively to the article, but I am aware of the UK's Natural Law Party in the 1990s whose manifesto was based on the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's teachings, and stood many candidates around the country for election as Members of Parliament in the General Election. I am however unclear as to whether the NLP was directly connected with the Maharishi's organisation although I seem to remember that there was some connection other than the merely philosophical. May I respectfully request that the article be extended to include this highly significant development which is so far conspicuous by its absence? Jonsilver 10:06, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I think it's a good idea to mention NLP, and I believe that Sueyen, who's been adding a lot of material to the article, will likely put something in. I don't think there was a direct connection between any of the organizations founded by Maharishi and the Natural Law Party. But his teachings certainly inspired the philosophy of the Natural Law Party. TimidGuy 11:13, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

history

What is the source for the claim that MMY has a masters degree in physics or even graduated from a university? Judyjoejoe 02:38, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Judy. I don't have any of the biographies in hand right now, but if I remember correctly, they generally agree that he got a degree in physics. I do think, though, that the point about it being a master's degree is very questionable, and I've changed that. Thanks for raising it. I have in the past been in a position where I had to determine degree equivalency, and it's quite difficult to establish. A college degree in India is typically three years, and often isn't considered the equivalent of a U.S. bachelor's degree. Many universities require a degree beyond the Indian college degree in order to admit students to graduate programs. We do need to find a better citation regarding his having earned a degree. TimidGuy 15:27, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Here is the proof for his degree: a webarchive-link. The fact that his name is somehow else is discussed here. --Josha52 (talk) 18:14, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Reference that Maharishi attended Allahabad Uni

Does it work that he's listed as one of the famous people to have graduated from this institution? See, which is cited in the article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allahabad_University#Alumni Sueyen 19:37, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Sueyen. That cites a Wikpedia page, which isn't considered reliable. The link on that page used to go to an alumni page of Allahabad University, but the link now seems to be dead. TimidGuy 20:14, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

New material on Maharishi

Although I have enjoyed reading the anecdotes on Maharishi's life, I am wondering if the article is becoming top heavy with stories and is straying from an encyclopedic style. Wikipedia seems to indicate to keep things shorter rather than longer, and more fact based perhaps rather than anecdotal.(olive 15:56, 7 September 2007 (UTC))

I believe the guidelines for the writing of biographies are somewhat different than writing about soccer, for example. Thus, giving the individual's birth information, etc. in the opening paragraph is what's suggested in the guidelines, and some amount of narrative is acceptable, as well. Thanks for your editing. Sueyen 20:53, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

your welcome ... It's always easier to come in and do some micro edits after someone else has done all of the work . I notice that some biographies have the date in the intro and some don't. I moved this one because there was other material on Maharishi's parents, birth name in a later paragraph so it seemed logical there but am not attached either way.(olive 23:51, 13 September 2007 (UTC))

Generalizations

I guess my concern isn't with whether "others" believe this but that as far as I can tell Wikipedia suggests that the use of a general term like "others" is non-specific. My deletion wasn't about the belief but wondering if more specific terms could be used to explain who these "others" are .... I just found "some" in some of the edits I did and realized that this is non-specific and in the worse case scenario could be construed as an attempt to misinform just because "some" could be anyone or everyone....although your reference tells us who the others are, the sentence in the section does not. That was the question I had .... who are these others and could they be noted to make this clear. Your call.(olive 21:29, 19 September 2007 (UTC))

above response to Sueyen .... sorry didn't specify.(olive 23:08, 19 September 2007 (UTC))

POV

This needs to be modified to present a moderate POV, this thing reads like a Press-Release. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.164.21.130 (talk) 01:04, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I think Sueyen has done a great job of adding historical material and finding sources, but it does seem that now that we have a solid draft we do need to adjust the tone and delete some of the sentences that make it sound like a press release. Also some of the transitions that give it a narrative feeling rather than sounding like an encyclopedia entry.

Also, the citations are good but we may not always need attributions -- unless it's opinionated material. For example, in the Ayurveda section, seems like we can just say that Maharishi introduced it in the 1980s and cite the book in the references but without necessarily identifying the author or book in the article itself.

Really appreciate all the work you're doing on this, Sueyen. When there was an edit war in the article earlier this year, one of the main comments from Jossi, a very prominent Wikipedia Admin, is that the article should be filled out more. Now it's finally happening. Maharishi has introduced much more than Transcendental Meditation to the West, and it's good to be getting that in here. TimidGuy 11:19, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Dear SineBot,

Thanks for your feedback. It's very helpful to have another pair of eyes look at your work. Could you possibly go a step further, though? Could you identify for me the areas where you felt the POV was lacking, and where it sounded like a press release? That would make it easier for me to make the changes you may have in mind. Thank you so much.Sueyen 18:21, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Comment on recent tagging of article

Although the editor who did a lot of the rewrting on this article has obviously spent a lot of research and editing time here , I also have felt the article had veered toward a more journalistic, anecdotal style.I see that TimidGuy has edited for NPOV, and I think I can do some work here as well. I think some of the quotes may be unnecessary for an encyclopedic style for example, and can be deleted or paraphrased. That may help with the POV feel. I'll be able to so some of that later today.(olive 14:56, 20 October 2007 (UTC))

My thought is to edit first and then if other editors have concerns they can revert the edits and the material can be discussed. Hopefully this will take less time than discussing every edit.(olive 17:43, 20 October 2007 (UTC))

Notice: aggressive and substantial editing since tagging

The article has now been aggressively and substantially edited since tagging and includes changes in terms of POV or non-neutral wording, reduction of quotes that possibly added a POV flavour, condensation of some material and deletion of redundant and/or possibly fringe material.(olive 19:55, 20 October 2007 (UTC))

I have deleted the tags. Several days have passed and there is no discussion. As well the article has undergone subsantial editing by several editors addressing the issues of concern when tagged.(olive 13:03, 23 October 2007 (UTC))

PS... and thanks to editors TimidGuy and Sueyen for their efforts in bringing the article to a more Wikipedia compliant state - a good group effort.(olive 13:25, 23 October 2007 (UTC))

Revision of Beatles section

With the heavy editing and removal of material recently, the Beatles section was disproportionately long - was in fact longer than any other section. I have compacted the material removing most quotes. As well, a new reference has been added that I came on recently that gives more information on the rumors that have circulated on this issue . Because this is the biography of a living person, this kind of recent material I believe is important to add in order to be as fair as possible to a "living person".(olive 18:27, 24 October 2007 (UTC))

Request for Comment on NPOV and Fringe

Please also see Transcendental Meditation and its associated talk page. Some of Maharishi's employees and associates are the main editors of the page, as well as this one, and I have requested comment on COI editing and subtle NPOV problems. Michaelbusch (talk) 08:36, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

As New Religious Movement (NRM) articles go, this one is not too bad, but it still has a way to go to achieve NPOV. Phrases such as "continue to this day" seem to be lifted from promotional material, and the general tone is too admiring. The theories taught by TM are accepted without discussion or dissent, which implies that they have a wider acceptance than they probably do. More neutral editors needed, I think. Rumiton (talk) 12:43, 24 November 2007 (UTC)