Talk:Saint Sebastian

Roots for the name

I was reading "In Xanadu" by William Dalrymple and I found this:

According to Yule almost nothing is known about the historical St Blaise, except that he was the bishop of Sebaste (Roman Sivas) and that he was martyred during the persecutions of Diocletian.

In this section Dalrymple is describing some the history of Sivas - a town in Turkey about 250 kilometers west of the Euphrates.

Maybe St Bliase was St Sebastian, but that's another story. Would it be worth speculating that someone from Sebaste is a Sebastian? Sebaste was a roman town, Sebastian was a roman saint - is it worth putting 2 and 2 together?

• I'm not sure it is. I'll admit that it sounds intriguing, but at this point, unless you can produce some published sources that show that this theory holds some currency, it's just speculation. It'd make a great topic of conversation over beer and a bag of crisps, but I'm not sure it should go into an encyclopedia. One rule that forbids this sort of thing, I think, is Wikipedia's prohibition against original research. While I don't think you're saying that this is research, my understanding is that this is something you yourself have noticed rather than something you read in a published work. Am I right about this, or have I misunderstood you? —CKA3KA (Skazka) 00:24, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

• There seems no way to insert into the taxobox that this Saint Sebastian is by Il Sodoma (Pitti Palace). You'd think it was just a wallet-card or something. Sebastianus is not a Roman cognomen: the derivation "from Sebaste" is not "original" at all, it's inescapable. What else might 'Sebastianus", the Greek analogue of "Augusta" in numerous town names, mean? Which Sebaste: now, that would be original research! --Wetman 20:35, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Gay iconism

This is on the to-do list and has actually been added numerous times (I personally have added it twice), but it never seems to last very long. It seems that some people are so horrified that St. Sebastian is identified with homosexuality that they can't bear the mention of it. Frankly, I don't care if the man was gay or not or whether there is any valid reason for anyone to associate him with homosexual behavior or not. But, in fact, that association has come to be and for the sake of completeness it should be mentioned. Censorship in this sense has no place here--66.253.174.65 09:53, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

• it doesnt belong without a reference. 216.127.138.184 18:19, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I have put it in the "popular culture" section, with a reference. Springnuts 21:01, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

It does not deserve an LGBT banner. I am offended that a Saint deserves such slander! Eedo Bee 12:11, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Slander? That's your POV, and has no place in a Wikipedia article. A source has been provided identifying St. Sebastian as a gay icon. The LGBT banner is there to help identify and improve articles that are interesting to the LGBT wikiproject for several reasons. Just like any other wikiproject banner. What is so offensive about that? Raystorm 13:59, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Documenting the fact that Sebastian is a gay icon has nothing to do with saying that he was gay. The fact is that Sebastian is a gay icon. What I want to know is why? There doesn't seem to be anything in his story to suggest he was gay. Is it more to do with the homoerotic image of a naked man pierced with arrows? For these two reasons alone ie 1) That he is a gay icon and that this is a important cultural phenomemon and 2) Its a mystery as to WHY should justify including a section on this subject. ThePeg 11:57, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

A possible, partial answer from art historian Richard E. Spear's The Divine Guido: Religion, Sex, Money, and Art in the World of Guido Reni, page 60. "Ardent response to the sight of bound Sebastian penetrated by arrows has a long and varied history, if for no other reason than the spectacle of a passive male nude body was relatively uncommon to art...particularly by the measure of the ubiquitous female nude displayed as erotic object." The connection definitely deserves mention, as Sebastian has clearly been linked with homosexuality, regardless of whether the man himself was gay or some people object to this development. The "hijacking" of saints by people outside the Church is not new, see St Expedite, St Joan of Arc, St Arnulf/Arnold, St Barbara (in regard to her connection to Santaria), etc. --Izau 16:43, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Why are we grasping at straws as to why he's a gay icon? Is there literature somewhere that states that it is because the arrows are reminiscent of S&M, or because he's draw as a sexy young man, or (previous) that the piercing arrows are phallic? How about this: stick to facts, or at least proper references. (Note that this is not detracting St. Sebastian as a gay icon; merely the wild guessing as to why.) 72.240.176.181 (talk) 15:01, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Sebastiane

I don't have time to add it right now, but Sebastiane should probably be mentioned in this aritcle. CaveatLector^Talk 09:32, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation

How is the name pronounced? As it's spelled.