User talk:24.166.188.91: Difference between revisions
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<sup>[[User:Avruch|<strong style="color:#fff;background:#000;border:1px solid #ccf">Avruch</strong>]][[User talk:Avruch|<strong style="color:#fff;background:#000;border:1px solid #ccf">talk</strong>]]</sup> 22:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC) |
<sup>[[User:Avruch|<strong style="color:#fff;background:#000;border:1px solid #ccf">Avruch</strong>]][[User talk:Avruch|<strong style="color:#fff;background:#000;border:1px solid #ccf">talk</strong>]]</sup> 22:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC) |
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I hope you noticed, Ward, that the Tennessee LAW that I tried to post does somewhat decriminalize first offense shoplifting if the District Attorney approves and if the price of the merchandise carried past final checkout without being paid for is less than $500. This is an attempt at a solution and this is newer Tennessee law than existed five or six years ago. The other states may be going in there trying to protect shoplifting as "criminal" and also a "civil" tort but you can see there is not much openness on the Internet. |
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I wish some reporter would investigate the status quo of shoplifting and the law and start a discussion and Wikipeidia could enable this by getting some truth out there about Civil Demand Letters and Shoplifting. Our Courts have been tainted because of the mixed practice and the fact that there has been no clarity and uniformity throughout the states and between the state and the federal practice, etc.... |
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Why doesn't Wikipedia want to help in clarifying this matter in the law in the interests of the citizens---I would hope that the Secretary of Defense would give some relief to the troops by adopting somewhat the same policy ----i.e. that the AAFES could ask the Commanders if they would agree to just a civil recovery for a first offender military person or minor dependent or adult dependent, as the case may be, and that there would be no criminal prosecution of first offenders and that the technology and the detentions outside would be used just to teach a lesson to the first offender shoplifters. |
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CJKC 30 Jan 08 14:29 |
Revision as of 20:33, 30 January 2008
This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Your edits to FranchisingYou've been putting up lots of good words, but no citations. Without them, the content will just be reverted. Please see WP:CITE, WP:NOR, and WP:V so that your efforts are not wasted.LeadSongDog (talk) 21:52, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Editing amokYou have just got to start sourcing your edits or stop this wholesale editing spree. Unless you can provide credible sources per WP:RS for the edits you made at Franchise consulting, I will remove them. Again, I will help source these edits to recognized news agencies, but right now, I don't get any indication that you really care for anything other than doing your own thing and going after people getting in your way. What is up with all this? Flowanda | Talk 07:56, 27 December 2007 (UTC) Franchise Consultants, under the new rule, will have a blank check to use the Internet to sell franchises and these consultants have no fiduciary duty to clients, as do attorneys. I will research and try to find some source but common sense tells yhou that a franchise attorney, who specializes in franchising, is the only real protection for those looking for a franchise. My intent is to do good and to stop the sale of duds to the public =====Federal Regulatory policy now allows for the sale of duds to the public that are eligible for SBA Loans. I don't think this is good fiscal policy and I don't think it is democratic to sacrifice "marks" to franchise consultants and to predator franchisors who sell duds to the public with immunity and impunity under the status quo of franchising. CJKC ---27 Dec 07 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.166.188.91 (talk • contribs) 2007-12-27T13:06:29 (UTC) Your post at Wikipedia:Editor_assistance/Requests#FranchisingI've replied there. As it appears that you don't read or reply here on your own talk page, I'll spare myself further effort here until that changes.LeadSongDog (talk) 14:53, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Please do not add unsourced or original content, as you did to Winona Ryder. Doing so violates Wikipedia's verifiability policy. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. Ward3001 (talk) 00:31, 4 January 2008 (UTC) Please do not add commentary or your own personal analysis to Wikipedia articles, as you did to Winona Ryder. Doing so violates Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy and breaches the formal tone expected in an encyclopedia. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Thank you. Ward3001 (talk) 00:31, 4 January 2008 (UTC) "Citation needed" tagsSimply adding "citation needed" is not considered sourcing. Please read the information above about citing. Also read WP:CITE, and ask for help if you're still confused. Ward3001 (talk) 17:49, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Unsourced personal opinionsYou have been asked repeatedly to stop adding unsourced information and personal opinions to Wikipedia, which you have completely ignored. Accordingly, you are now being warned to stop: This is the last warning you will receive for your disruptive edits. This is the last warning you will receive for your disruptive edits. Thank you for your wsrning. I will try to source my material whenever possible and have tried to explain my position on the Discussion page. Am I not allowed to say that the criminal case of Winona Ryder and Shoplifting and the California Appeal to the United States Supreme Court were before the respective courts at the same time and that The United States Supreme Court cvame down with their reversal of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in April of 2003 after Winona Ryder was found guilty of felony larceny in the Los Angeles Court and sentenced in a nationally televised appearance in the California Superior Court in December of 2002. This is fact! Am I not allowed to indicate that in the coverage of Winona Ryder's trial, there was no mention of the California Civil Recovery Statute for Shoplifting by any of the newspapers? I thought that Wikipedia was about sourcing "truth" for the people. CJKC
Redundant informationPlease do not add redundant information to Wikipedia articles, as you did to Winona Ryder. Ward3001 (talk) 18:03, 9 January 2008 (UTC) This is not redundant or irrelevant information and without an indication that there was year-long publicity and a nationally televised sentencing of Wynona Ryder for her jury conviction of felony larceny and misdemeanor, you are providing incomplete information to the readers that does not reflect the true picture of what happend in "famous cases" and why "famous cases" are prosecuted and why they make the papers, etc... Please try to be fair and not dedicated to your own agenda which is to protect Wynona from the truth? or what? CJKC
Please do not add unsourced or original content, as you did to Shoplifting. Doing so violates Wikipedia's verifiability policy. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. Ward3001 (talk) 18:08, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Sections and headingsPlease be careful not to randomly place comments in a section that has nothing to do with your comments, as you just did to Talk:Winona Ryder. For no apparent reason, you made comments about Woody Allen, insurance problems, and legal stuff related to her shoplifting right at the beginning of the GA Review section. And in the process, you destroyed the header for that section. It's a simple matter to look before you decide where to start typing. Ward3001 (talk) 20:00, 9 January 2008 (UTC) Welcome to Wikipedia, and thank you for your contributions. One of the core policies of Wikipedia is that articles should always be written from a neutral point of view. Please remember to observe our core policies. Thank you. A link to the edit I have reverted can be found here: link. If you believe this edit should not have been reverted, please contact me. Doczilla (talk) 20:08, 9 January 2008 (UTC) Thank you for making the correction on the Woody Allen comment wherein he said he couldn't get insurance on Winona in 2003 (because, of course, of the negative publicity of the year long trial.) I am trying to be neutral but, of course, it is difficult because I do believe that it is so obvious that Winona Ryder was set up as an example so that The Supreme Court could reverse the 9th Circuit and the status quo of shoplifting and civil recoveries for shoplifting would not be disturbed. I have tried to add the Mark Klaas interview with Larry King where he expressed his displeasure with Winona's attorney because I think it is significant. Mark Klaas had just recently found out from me about the Civil Recovery Statutes and how this subsidy for the retailers would, of course, have a bearing on the need of the state to preserve the status quo of shoplifting and the law. It was because of Polly Klaas that the 3-Strikes Law was passed in California but he is a good friend of Winona's and she was a good friend to him and he could see that the matter of the state Civil Recovery Laws should have been brought up in her trial and in the Press and Media ---as a possible reason why the Prosecutor singled out Winona at this specific time to put on a show trial for the public and wouldn't offer her a plea bargain as in the other 5,000 shoplifting cases in California. If you look at the dates of the decision of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeal ----Nov. 2001 --Winona's Arrest Dec 2001, The US Supreme Court agrees to hear California Appeal to 9th Circuit Appeals Court ruling in April 2002 ---The DOD implements civil recovery for shoplifting on troops with Press Release in March 2002--Winona is publically sentenced after a jury trial in a nationally televised Superior Court Appearance in December of 2002 for felonies for shoplifting ---The United States reverses the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in a 5 to 4 decision and protects the status quo of APPREHENDED shoplifting case law as petit or grand larceny and the status quo of civil recovery across the nation is not disturbed and the status quo of the DOD civil recovery Administrative Fee for $200 for shoplifting and the criminal sanction in the federal magistrate courts is not disturbed----and the status quo of the California 3-strike laws of California are not disturbed. Final warningYou have been warned repeatedly about policy violations, and either you don't want to abide by Wikipedia's policies, or you are incapable of understanding them. Accordingly: This is the last warning you will receive for your disruptive edits. This is the last warning you will receive for your disruptive edits. Please do not add commentary or your own personal analysis to Wikipedia articles. Doing so violates Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy and breaches the formal tone expected in an encyclopedia. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Thank you. A link to the edit I have reverted can be found here: link. If you believe this edit should not have been reverted, please contact me. Doczilla (talk) 20:35, 9 January 2008 (UTC) WP:ANI noticeHello, 24.166.188.91. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding your disruptive editing. The discussion can be found under the topic WP:ANI#24.166.188.91 (talk · contribs). Argyriou (talk) 20:08, 15 January 2008 (UTC) January 2008 You have been temporarily blocked from editing in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for abuse of editing privileges. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} below. nat.utoronto 20:10, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Forgive me. I find this editing very complicated. I see you have edited out my comment that Winona Ryder's attorney requested that her confession obtained for "civil recovery purposes" be suppressed. This was in the original appearance before the court where her attorney complained that the security personnel had lifted her shirt and her skirt and where the judge told her to be silent, etc.. This is a public record. Apparently, she was told about the Civil Statute for Civil Recovery and made a confession for this purpose to the city-licensed security personnel before she was criminally charged with the felonies by the LA Prosecutor. This would mean that the Jury would have never been informed of the "civil recovery process" and the lack of Miranda warnings by city-licensed security personnel. CJKC --1/15/08
My purpose is to inform that "shoplifters" who are detained/arrested outside of final checkout points will generally (with RARE exceptions) be disposed of by the initiation of a city ticket or arrest and/or a civil recovery demand. While city-licensed security personnel do not have to give Miranda warnings when they approach the suspect outside and do not ask direct questions or make accusations, it is their intent to either initiate a criminal citation and/or a civil recovery under the civil statute of the state. Amateur shoplifters make voluntary statments to these licensed LP personnel when they asgree to accompany them back to the Security Offices of the retail establishment, and these statements can be used against them in the courts, etc.. This is justified from the standpoint that the Miranda warning only has to be given when the suspect is informed of the arrest but isn't this disingenuous when it is the intent of the licensed undercover retail police to initiate arrests or civil recoveries? In Winona Ryder's case, apparently the security initiated a civil recovery demand to which she agreed (confessed) and then they initiated a criminal arrest for larceny, in which her attorney asked that the "civil recovery" confession be suppressed. Would anyone agree to a Civil Recovery Demand and confess if they knew they were going to be criminally prosecuted for the same event? Just trying to throw some light on this subject matter. The law belongs to the people and is meant to serve the people. Certainly, those suspects who are permitted to pass final checkout points without paying for merchandise, etc. and without being asked to pay for the merchandise should be warned when they are stopped outside that anything they say will be used against them, and they should remain silent and immediately call an attorney if they are going to be charged with larceny shoplifting on a city ticket or be arrested by the city commissioned police. If ONLY a civil recovery is going to be initiated by the store, this, of course, is not necessary because it is only a CIVIL matter and if the suspect wants to pay a civil recovery on demand or agree to pay the civil recovery, this is in the best interests of the retailer and the suspect. Perhaps! this is what the Legislatures had in mind when they passed these Civil Recovery Statutes ----but when the statutes were being used together with criminal prosecutions and abused, they had to get out here and defend that they the licensed LP Retail Personnel (double agents of the retailer and the city) had the right to initiate both a civil recovery and a criminal prosecution. Won't this have to be straightened out. What about the equal protection of the laws? CJKC 16 Jan 08
I have looked for the actual transript that was on the Internet wherein Winona's Attorney and the Judge talked about the suppression of the Civil Recovery "confession" but, apparently, it has been removed from the Internet. I'm not sure whether or not the Los Angeles Superior Court is a Municipal Court that keeps records of its original hearings Many of the municipal courts are not courts of record and are not required to keep pre-trial hearings, etc.. but I read this just a few days ago and now it is GONE! I have searched for two days, now! In this transcript, her attorney told the judge that the security guard had lifted Winona's shirt and she volunteered that he had looked under her skirt, as well. The Judge then cautioned Winona to be quiet and in the last page of the "orange" transcript that was up on the Internet, he and Winona's attorney exchanged words about suppressing the "civil recovery" confession. The complete transcript was not posted but I assume the civil recovery agreement/confession was suppressed and this is why Winona was able to plead "not guilty" in her jury trial? I assume there is no way to indicate under "Rights" that there are no warnings given by city licensed security guards when they arrest/detain shoplifting suspects outside of store premises but certainly you can see that this is unfair. Case law and practice permits these LP Retail Undercover Police to initiate probable cause arrests and/or civil demands because the City has given them the power of arrest outside of store premises, and this is their intent, but yet the suspects who are first offenders are not warned and they volunteer and incriminate themselves in voluntary statements that can be used against them in the courts. The licenced LP undercover police who are paid agents of the retailer use their agency with the City Police to arrest/detain and their agency with their employer to be excused from the constitutional "intent" of Miranda warnings. The subsidy for the retailers is obvious. But, can this all be justified by the cities as "deterrence of shoplifting" that is in the interests of the people? It is the States who gave the Cities (through administrative rule) the authority to license security guards to keep the peace and to protect private property --but was it premaditated that the "power of arrest" would be sold to secret police --those who would wear no uniforms and display no badges. The purpose of the uniform and the badge is to deter crime and warn of authority. The lower courts --those used most by the people -- should not be complicit in denying due process rights to those who come before them because public policy has granted the subsidy of civil recovery statutes together with the sale of the people's "power of arrest" to the corporate retailers of America. Because the practice of Civil Recovery and Criminal Prosecution is a mixed bag in the United States, the equal protection of the laws is not given to those who can't afford to pay civil recoveries. Do you think that the Legislatures intended the Retailers to use both civil and criminal sanctions? Or, did the cities and the retailers just get together to use "process" and the "law" after the Civil Recovery Statutes were passed by the State Legislatures? Do you think that democracies can survive when public policy is developed behind the backs of the masses? If you had a garage sale or a yard sale and you saw someone conceal one of your items offered for sale and then look like he/she was leaving, wouldn't you say "Hey ---did you forget to pay me for the "whatever" that you have "wherever" on your person? Or, would you wait until they got in their car and then block them from leaving and detain them forcibly if they wouldn't come back and talk to you? Would you then NOT let them offer to pay for the item and detain them (forcibly, if necessary) until you could call the police. Would the police come to your house to arrest this garage or yard- sale thief? Does the end justify the means? Does Wikipedia care? Do you care? I am just trying to expose what has happened to those who read Wikipedia and I don't understand why you want to stop me. I understand that only that which can be verified should be posted but why don't you help me verify some of this. I am not very skilled in the use of the computer ---I can't even find out whether there is any "history" that I could look into to find the transcript of the conversation in court ---but will ask one of my children when I have the opportunity ---and see if I can find it in my history???? My eyesight is failing as well. Thank you for allowing me to post "The History of Civil Recovery" CJKC 16 Jan 2008
Thank you Argyriou! I found the 10-14/02 hearing in which the Judge sustained Mr. Garagos' objection to Ms. Rundle offering two civil demand notices that Winona Ryder signed. Can I now indicate this is my source for the comment in the "Discussion" Section of the Article or can I indicate this is the main Article under "Rights" or "History". Did you know that Civil Demand, Inc., a California Corporation who makes civil demands on behalf of Corporate Clients indicated on the Internet, the following, I quote: "The Appelate Courts in Montana and Nebraska has held that if the store seeks a civil penalty and a criminal prosecution and the suspect has in fact paid the civil demand, then double jeopardy applies and he cannot be criminally prosecuted." This makes sense, of course, because both the criminal and the civil sanction against shoplifting is possible because of laws passed by government, and the "civil recovery" statutes are a government subsidy of the American Retailers. CJKC 17:29, 16 January 2008 There you go againI've had it with your unsourced edits. DON'T ADD INFORMATION WITHOUT A CITATION. Repeat: DON'T ADD INFORMATION WITHOUT A CITATION. One more time: DON'T ADD INFORMATION WITHOUT A CITATION. Do it again and you'll be blocked, this time for more than 31 hours. This is the last warning you will receive for your disruptive edits. The information I added is from the 10-24-02 Pretrial Hearing Transcript and has a bearing on what happened to Winona Ryder in her shoplifting case. She was more or less forced into a jury trial because LA would not plea bargain with her and a jury was her only opportunity to avoid a felony conviction. The fact that the licensed LP Personnel did not Mirandize her but induced her to sign the Civil Recovery Demands and then initiated a criminal arrest by the LA Commissioned Police put Winona between a rock and a hard place. Do you want me to cite the source of the pre-trial transcript when I put this back into the article, or what? Why would anyone sign a Civil Recovery Demand if they thought they were then going to be criminally arrested andprosecuted for the same event? What is wrong with the truth? Apparently, LA wanted a "show" trial and a "guilty" verdict from a jury and they knew they could get one if only the "law of the case" came before the jury. While Winona's attorney indicated in his remarks that there was a conspiracy to "get" Winona by the guards, he didn't give the jury any reasons as to why the State and the Loss Prevention Industry might want to protect The Civil Recovery Stastutes and the legitimacy of the Criminal Prosecution of Defendants for Larceny shoplifting based on the probable cause evidence gathered by city-licensed undercover retail police who permit suspects to exist store premises so that they can be arrested for completed larcenies and be served with civil demands from the corporate retailers. CJKC ---18:35, 17 Jan 08
[1] or simply as [ http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/winona3.html ] if that's too tough. Notice that when you are editing there is a row of little pictures (called icons) above the white part of the window where you type. One of those shows a picture of the earth. Try clicking on that and you'll see it generates a link like the above for you. Play with that a bit and you'll see how easy it is to use. LeadSongDog (talk) 19:01, 18 January 2008 (UTC) Thank you LeadSongDog for the advice. I know that I need to take lessons on using the computer. I think I am now finished if my citation finishes muster! CJKC 13:47 18 Jan 2008 Shoplifting reduxDo not add information without providing sources for your assertions. Do not replace information which has been removed for lack of sourcing. This behavior can get you blocked. If you're going to insert an essay, at least make it a well-written essay. Spell out acronyms on their first use, and if the acronym is unfamiliar, don't use the acronym form for every subsequent occurrence. Don't capitalize every occurrence of legal jargon. Each paragraph should focus on one idea. Don't write assumptions into your text. Don't sign your contributions to article pages. Argyriou (talk) 20:13, 26 January 2008 (UTC) Thank you Argyriou! What are you trying to accomplish with the Wikipedia Article on Shoplifting? If you expect that this article will give the general public information about shoplifting, how can you NOT give them information about the Civil Recovery Laws that govern shoplifting, and the fact that suspects will be detained and stopped outside by city-licensed loss prevention personnel who have been given the power to detain/arrest outside of store premises, even if they have to use force, because they already have the evidence on which to initiate a "probable cause" arrest or ticket by the City Commissioned Police who, under policy, respond to calls from the city-licensed loss prevention personnel. The city, then, on the evidence of licensed retail loss prevention becomes responsible for any ticket, arrest and prosecution or diversion of the matter and the retail owner of the merchandise is protected as a further subsidy of the retail corporations. If you will trouble yourself to read the pre-trial transcript, 10-24-02, concerning the Winona Ryder felony shoplifting charges, you will see that there was discussion concerning Miranda warnings and voluntary statements to security and you will wonder why Winona wasn't mirandized before she signed two civil demands (confessions) presented to her on behalf of the retailer and then was later arrested by the LA Police -- and the Prosecutor in the pre-trial hearing indicated that she wanted to use these two Civil Demands in the trial. The judge, of course, suggested that Winona's attorney would want these Civil Demands from Saks Fifth Avenue to be suppressed so that she could plead not guilty in the jury trial, and, of course, her attorney and the Prosecutor agreed---apparently, because she wasn't mirandized before she signed the Civil Demands. Shouldn't the public be warned that if they sign a civil demand and pay a demand, thinking that they have "settled" the matter, they can later be charged for a completed larceny and the Prosecutor might try to use the agreement to pay the Demand against them. Truly, because of the special and hard consequences of both civil recovery and a criminal sanction for shoplifting, the public should be warned ---there should be government postings of both the criminal and civil consequences of shoplifting in retail stores, if this is constitutional, but there are no warnings and postings ---probably because this is private property and the retailers like their subsidy as it stands. Further, the only defense that Winona Ryder offered was that she was set up by the security personnel but her attorney couldn't give the jury any reason why they would have set her up, etc.. because he could make no mention of the suppressed Civil Recovery Demands and the Civil Recovery Statutes of California that ensure the present and future of the Loss Prevention Industry and the Debt Colection Industry in California, etc.. and throughout the States. He couldn't tell the jury about the California Appeal to the 9th Circuit Court Decision that was before the Supreme Court at the same time as Winona's trial ----and the Supreme Court, after Winona was found guilty of FELONY larceny would reverse the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals and protect the status quo of both criminal and civil statutes for shoplifting and give no relief under the 8th Amendment to a man who will spend life in prison because of shoplifting six children's video tapes from KMART. This Supreme Court reversal also protected the status quo of the NEW $200 Civil Demands for Shoplifting that the Department of Defense implemented on active duty troops in March 2002 when either they or their sponsored dependents are ticketed or arrested for shoplifting in government retail stores. The Winona Ryder public trial and sentencing for felony larceny shoplifting certainly made it politically more feasible for the Supreme Court to reverse the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals and to BLESS the case law of the last 30 to 40 years that has treated apprehended shoplifting, in which there is NO actual loss to the retailer, as a completed larceny punished by the state and doubled under California three-strike laws. Why don't you help me to source this truth and help me to write the truth about shoplifting in a matter acceptible to you and Wikipedia or would this not be in your interests? Do you work for the status quo or do you work for Wikipedia and truth? I have no ego! Please arrange the truth about shoplifting in any manner that will pass muster ---but don't suppress the truth because of technicalities or my poor writing skills. cjkc 26 Jan 2008
Here we go againThe problem is not your "poor writing skills". That could easily be copyedited and corrected. The problem is that you don't have the desire or motivation to find sources and learn how to properly cite them. You have tried the patience of several editors with your unsourced and POV edits, including mine. I have reached my limit. I will leave no additional messages. If you make any additional unsourced edits, I will simply revert them and immediately take action to have you blocked again. Ward3001 (talk) 17:45, 27 January 2008 (UTC) You removed my last edit that I sourced by indicating that the state statutes concerning Civil Recovery are available in the public libraries of the United States who stock and disploay the State Statutes as reference material for the public. There was a time when Civil Demand Associates of California, a leading collector of Civil Demands, did make available the state statutes with the minimums and maximums on the Internet ---but they apparently removed this information that is available now only to their clients, and not to the general public who use the Internet. The failure of Wikipedia and you, Ward, to display any information under the heading of "Shoplifting" on the Internet about Civil Recovery for shoplifting is suspect. You are neutral to the point that you are putting misinformation in the Wikipedia article because the information that is there now is incomplete and misleading because it is incomplete ----Especially, the sections on The Rights of Shoplifters and the Rights of the Retail Store Owners and their undercover licenced Loss Prevention Personnel ---who do not, in practice, give Miranda warnings to the suspects they detain outside of store premises. You will not reveal that a city-licensed loss prevention retail agent has the right under the law to use force to detain shoplifting suspects and you now bear the responsibility for hiding this fact from the public. You have aborted the stated purpose of Wikipedia --that is to bring greater and wider knowledge to subject matter in articles on Wikipedia. You, personally, and on behalf of Wikipedia are supporting ths status quo and the "quiet" subsidy for the retailers of America and I'm sure they will be grateful. Apparently, I will never provide an adequate source for the truth about Civil Recovery because the sources are so scarce and only provided in comments by the Loss Prevention Industry and the Collection Agencies who specialize in collecting civcil recoveries. The only other source is the Public Libraries who do stock the State Statutes in their reference sections as a service to the American people and to protect the concept that the law must be open to the view of the public ---to protect the people. You win! CJKC ---27 Jan 08 ---12:45
FINAL WARNING This is the last warning you will receive for your disruptive edits. Ward: I think you do not want to put anything about Civil Demand Notices and Shoplifting into the Wikipedia article on Shoplifting. Shoplifting is addressed by government in both the criminal and the civil law. You are trying to prevent the public from learning about Civil Demand Laws and are working for the status quo that subsidizes the retailers. I protest your removal of my postings because I did produce citations and did paraphrase my comments with attribution. How can you have a section concerning Economic Impact and Reaction of Shops if you do not indicate that there was a reaction from the retailers in the form state civil recovery laws (a subsidy) for the retailers? You obviously are using your skills to obscure the truth. Perhaps you can offer some good reason why government should subsidize the security costs of private retail stores who sell private merchandise for private profit. cjkc - 29 January 2008 - 15:40 |
WP:ANI second report
Hello, 24.166.188.91. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding your disruptive editing. The discussion can be found under the topic WP:ANI#Editor repeatedly making unsourced and POV edits. Ward3001 (talk) 21:59, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Welcome
Hello! I've noticed that you have edited Wikipedia without logging in to an account. I'm happy that you've been contributing. However, I urge you to create an account. Here is a list of the benefits of having an account:
- You can create new pages
- You can use watchlists
- You can upload images
- You can keep your account from being unfairly blocked if you share an IP address
- You can use scripts to better fight annoying vandalism
- After four days, you can edit semi-protected pages
- After a while, you might be able to become an administrator
There are no cons to signing up for an account. In fact, there are more pros here! Signing up is completely free and you don't need to enter any personal information! Plus you can have a user page like mine! So, unless you can think of a con, sign up for an account right now! Avruchtalk 22:12, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
References, Editing, Accounts & Adoption
Hello - I'm glad you've put some effort into improving Wikipedia articles, but from the above it looks like you've been having some difficulty. If you like these are problems that you can constructively address. The first step is to register an account - there are essentially no downsides to doing this, and it improves your privacy dramatically. You may not be aware, but making your IP address widely public is a security risk for your computer and network (whether at home or at work).
I see that Ward has linked to you the policies, so hopefully you've taken the time to read the Wikipedia policies on using reliable third party references for information you insert to articles. This policy exists to ensure that only accurate and credible information makes it into articles. Obviously not all articles are at the gold standard we strive for - but if others edit the articles you are interested in, they will remove unsourced additions in order to maintain quality.
Your comment above about using URL addresses makes me think that at least part of the problem is technical, so I've suggested at the noticeboard for administrators that if you register an account someone should consider you for 'adoption'. At Wikipedia, this means someone will help you with your edits and suggest wys that you can improve - hopefully this person will also be able to explain technical details like how to include references in articles and use Wikimarkup (basic language that produces graphical results in articles). If you're interested, sign up for an account and leave a message at my talk page or at WP:AN/I under the thread started by Ward.
Avruchtalk 22:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I hope you noticed, Ward, that the Tennessee LAW that I tried to post does somewhat decriminalize first offense shoplifting if the District Attorney approves and if the price of the merchandise carried past final checkout without being paid for is less than $500. This is an attempt at a solution and this is newer Tennessee law than existed five or six years ago. The other states may be going in there trying to protect shoplifting as "criminal" and also a "civil" tort but you can see there is not much openness on the Internet.
I wish some reporter would investigate the status quo of shoplifting and the law and start a discussion and Wikipeidia could enable this by getting some truth out there about Civil Demand Letters and Shoplifting. Our Courts have been tainted because of the mixed practice and the fact that there has been no clarity and uniformity throughout the states and between the state and the federal practice, etc....
Why doesn't Wikipedia want to help in clarifying this matter in the law in the interests of the citizens---I would hope that the Secretary of Defense would give some relief to the troops by adopting somewhat the same policy ----i.e. that the AAFES could ask the Commanders if they would agree to just a civil recovery for a first offender military person or minor dependent or adult dependent, as the case may be, and that there would be no criminal prosecution of first offenders and that the technology and the detentions outside would be used just to teach a lesson to the first offender shoplifters.
CJKC 30 Jan 08 14:29