Talk:Carpenter Gothic

Moving or renaming article

Please do not move or rename this article without a discussion and consensus on this page. clariosophic (talk) 14:12, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was No consensus to move page, per discussion below. Clariosophic is correct that there is no name convention requiring the move, although this is somewhat beside the point, because we're always free to decide things on a case-by-case basis. Anyway, there is no argument given

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Carpenter Gothic → Carpenter Gothic architecture — Per naming convention for architecture articles —Katr67 (talk) 16:15, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Support Clearly desirable to have homogeneity in article naming conventions across similar subjects. Binksternet (talk) 18:21, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose Summary of the following: There is no naming convention that requires this article to be renamed. clariosophic (talk) 22:02, 25 January 2008 (UTC) Somehow I can't seem to find any naming convention that is applicable, either in general or in the Architecture Project. Carpenter Gothic is an architectural style, not a type of architecture and is really a popular term, not an architectural one. National Register listings commonly classify Carpenter Gothic structures as Gothic Revival architecture, if they even give a classification. Sometimes they just say unknown. Many architects do not even recognize it. For instance, a local AIA member in my county described the Carpenter Gothic church I belong to as wooden vernacular in the AIA survey of Florida architecture published by the University of Florida. The Carpenter Gothic article was based on a paragraph or two in Gothic Revival architecture and I see no reason to change it now. I have found too often that when a Naming Convention is cited as the reason for renaming, there is in actuality no convention that is applicable to the particular situation. I have learned this myself when I cited per naming convention only to find that there was no such convention: rather I perceived a convention where none actually existed. Instead it becomes a subjective change rather than an objective one. I can see no good purpose in this change, only confusion. clariosophic (talk) 23:06, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

• Support, it appears to be the convention here. CApitol3 (talk)

• Neutral for now. I'm merely a participant because listed this through the proper channels for a rename discussion since the move was contested and reverted. Perhaps WikiProject Architecture should be contacted. P.S. Clariosophic, you might want to remove your argument from the main page move page, since the discussion belongs here. Katr67 (talk) 18:38, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

The naming convention I was writing about was in these other article page titles:

• Mediterranean Revival Style architecture
• Googie architecture
• Postmodern architecture
• Italianate architecture
• Queen Anne Style architecture
• Federal architecture
• Mission Revival Style architecture
• Colonial Revival architecture
• Beaux-Arts architecture and more.

Each one has "architecture" as the last word.

On the other hand, some architectural style pages do NOT have the word "architecture" appended to the title:

• Arcology
• Ranch-style house
• Bauhaus
• American Craftsman
• Streamline Moderne
• National Park Service Rustic and more.

Personally, I don't have any problem with this Carpenter Gothic article being moved to Carpenter Gothic architecture as it helps define what is being talked about. Similarly, some of the architecture topics which don't include the word architecture in their title could benefit from being moved to a better-defined page. Bauhaus is a fine page as it is but includes other subjects such as fine art, typography, etc. Streamline Moderne might benefit from being split into an architecture page and an industrial design (not architecture) page. National Park Service Rustic might well be moved in its entirety to National Park Service Rustic architecture with no adverse effects; in the same vein, American Craftsman could easily become American Craftsman architecture. I think the ambiguity is lessened when the word "architecture" shows up in the title page. Binksternet (talk) 07:00, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi binksternet, Arcology is really a distinct deisgn ethic of mostly one architect, and I guess a small handfull of folowers. Bauhaus refers to a school, a building, and a general deisgn ethic. Streamline Moderne is more a new term merging two terms, appearing here on wiki than in existing published literature. CApitol3 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 13:13, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

More articles that do NOT have architecture in their names:

• American Foursquare
• California Bungalow
• Dutch Colonial
• First Period
• Flamboyant
• French Colonial
• Isabelline Gothic
• Pacific lodge
• Prairie School
• Richardsonian Romanesque
• Russian Revival
• Stone ender and more

There are also more articles with architecture in their titles, but the point I am trying to make is that there is no consensus, yet alone a convention, on the naming of such articles. A convention, by the way, is something that had been formally adopted by Wikipedia or one of its projects and is spelled out somewhere in Wikipedia. In conclusion, there is NO naming convention in Wikipedia or its projects that would require or suggest that architecture be added to Carpenter Gothic. User:GearedBull, signed on this page as CApitol3, gave "more common term" as the reason for moving the article to Carpenter Gothic architecture. I would submit that Carpenter Gothic is the more common term and there is no need to add architecture to it. In summation: There is no convention on this. clariosophic (talk) 15:52, 14 January 2008 (UTC) clariosophic (talk) 19:45, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.