Talk:Characters in The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess

Images

I'm new here and have pretty much no idea what I'm doing. I added some images for Ashei, Auru, Shad and Rusl, but now the page looks really messy. Can someone help?

Character Names

For Chudley/Malver, at the least, there is no official name. The only official source calls him nothing other than "Celebrity Clerk", and the name of his shop does not appear anywhere in the game. Therefore, the section needs to be fixed accordingly.128.211.254.142 14:56, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Ganon and the Twilight King

Please stop speculating on whether Ganon is the Twilight King. 199.126.137.209 20:08, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay so really.... SPOILER

Gandorf is NOT the Twilight King. Zelda is one of the bosses or whatever you refer to it that Link must battle, she is possessed by Gandorf and fights very similar to Phantom Ganon.

Can we please add spoiler signs

Really, I was just looking at this page and I see all this stuff about Ganondorf that basically reveals the whole plot.

Of every Zelda game?KrytenKoro 02:23, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Light spirits and goddesses?

Could something be added as to how some of the light spirits are apparently named after the goddesses (Lanayru, Eldin, Fadon and Ordona)?

I see it's been done now (and that I got Faron's name wrong; my excuse is that I haven't played the game myself).

the Lanayru part is probably the only thing you can make a case about. Everything else is a little coincidental. C. Pineda 08:11, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Update and cleanup

This article is really bad. Considering the game has been out for eight days, I wouldn't expect everything to be in future tense and refering to trailers. I assume few people have tried to edit this page because most people haven't finished the game and they don't want to spoil it for themselves. I finished it Saturday, so I'll start cracking down even though my prose sucks.

Done and done! I cleaned up the text, and added that invisitext. For future reference, the formatting is <!-- replace italics with your own words -->.--Zooba 18:08, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Zant's appearance

I am a bit confused about the appearance of the twilight king, primarily his helmet/face, is this a crown or helm of some sort or is he just in human with a monstrous facial appearance?

SPOILERS: It's a helmet (with a retractable tongue). From the videos I've seen, you can see part of his face behind the tongue in an appearance early-ish, and just before his boss battle then his entire face is revealed (although it's still somewhat strange). The whole thing seems to be part of his armour and parts of it can be unfolded and hidden at will. (In addition, it might be interesting to add Zant's lunatic behaviour when you meet him as a boss, in contrast to his more serious depiction earlier - I haven't played the game, but possibly it's because Ganondorf's left him to return to Hyrule personally?)

Thanks, I read the Zant article and saw his real face, wierd and not as good as I expected...

Does anyone know what Zant's clothes consist of? (Robes, shorts, pants etc.)

Does it really matter? It's robes with baggy pants, if it's really that important (like Inuyasha, for lack of a better example). However, that level of detail really doesn't mean anything to the character, and is largely irrelevant.KrytenKoro 05:28, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Game guide information in the boss section

This shit seriously needs to stop. For those reading who don't know, Wikipedia is not a place for GameFAQs style information and strategy. The boss section is a piece of crap because all people add is in-depth strategy. Is there a way to add text only visible on the edit screen that would tell people not to do this? SixteenBitJorge 22:07, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks to Zooba for taking care of that. Now let's see if people actually listen. SixteenBitJorge 19:48, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

The boss section is looking much, much, better now. High fives to everyone who has helped clean that former atrocity up. SixteenBitJorge 21:31, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Zant...suicide?

It says in the section under Ganondorf that at the end of the game Zant actually commits suicide and as a result Ganondorf dies. Does he actually? I thought he died as a result of his lifeforce being attached to Ganondorf's when Link defeats him. Even so, if he actually comitted suicide, the game would probrably not be rated Teen, but Mature instead due to the disturbing theme. Can anyone confirm this?

Haven't played the game, but I've seen an uploaded video of the ending. Zant snaps his own neck, jerking it sideways at an angle with a crunching noise (this happens in some kind of vision), and Ganondorf's eyes go white and his head jerks back right after.

Yes, but before the "vision" of Zant, Ganondorf's Triforce of Power fades from his hand and the gash in his torso where the Master Sword is penetrated looses its glow and goes black. I believe that here he isn't dying, but losing his power instead as the Triforce leaves him. He is still alive, but since all of his power is gone, he no longer has the ability to keep Zant revived, and thus Zant dies. Since their lifeforces were still attached, Ganondorf dies in turn. Does that make sense?

It would make sense, but I don't think it should be written here. It's merely speculation after all. To me, it seemed like Zant just appeares as a kind of illusion for Ganondorf as he was dying, and basically saying "Screw you, now you're dead" by taunting Ganondorf and snapping his own neck.

Throughout the game, Zant has shown that his body is extremely flexible, so snapping his neck sidewards would not necesserily have to kill him either. Again, I think it wa smore of a taunt. Both theories are simple speculation, so please just remove them both from here. Thanks.

I'm sick of hearing this theory. Look guys if Zant's death could kill Ganondorf then Ganondorf would be dead twice. And don't say suicide is different. Zant treated Ganondorf as a god and a master. Never in the game is it hinted that Zant can control Ganondorf. Think of Zant like a parasite. When the host(Ganondorf)dies so does the parasite attached to them(Zant).--74.230.110.248 17:27, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

That's...not quite the theory. The theory is that since Ganondorf said "anything you desire I will desire too", i.e "I will make any wish of yours come true", Zant wished for Ganondorf to die, and that was his personal (crazy) way of communicating that wish.KrytenKoro 23:49, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

OMG....Ganondorf was LYING TO ZANT he was USING him he didnt care wat zant wanted either way as his "god" he controled the twilight realm anywayDarkest-Link33 (talk) 16:45, 24 May 2008 (UTC)Erik

Zant

Should there be a separate article for Zant? I say there should be, since we have one on Agahnim. PlatformerMastah 02:32, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Yup, I honestly think there should be one, I am thinking abput writing it myself. I just need a picture of Zant unmasked and I'll start :P

Queen Fairy

I think the Queen Fairy she have a small article on this page, after all she does play a larger role in this game than she did in previous games. Does anyone else agree? Tpganon —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tpganon (talk • contribs) 20:04, 6 December 2006 (UTC).

Yeah, man, go ahead and add it. There's an image on the Great Fairy page if you need it. SixteenBitJorge 21:15, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I just wrote it! What do you think? Oh, and how do you add images?--209.74.28.208 00:25, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Ganondorf

I feel there are some knots in the storyline.

• "In essence, Ganondorf is the one behind all the events of Twilight Princess. After he was sealed away in the Dark World, the Seven Sages released him to await execution in Arbiter's Grounds, a prison in Gerudo Mesa. The Dark Lord was ritualy chained to a giant rock and impaled by a blade of light."

if the blade of light did not kill Ganondorf, why did the Master Sword kill him? the latter is also a blade of light (infused from the Sols), is it not? I think the blade of light mentioned in regards to the Arbiter's Grounds could very well be the Master Sword.

• "The Triforce of Power gave him power to survive execution and break free from the chains."

why did Ganondorf revive after the execution, but did not revive after Link kills him? where did the Triforce of Power possibly go? I am assuming Ganondorf still has the Triforce of Power. let's remember the Triforce on his hand can fade in and out, but never seems to go away. is there any evidence that Ganondorf is straight-out dead? if he was just plain dead, there would be no later (in the timeline) games with Ganondorf in them. I think Ganondorf never lost the Triforce, but only lost it's power. how the Master Sword made the Triforce stop working, and the blade of light used in the execution did not, is a big puzzler.

• "He slays a sage"

what exactly does slay mean? kill? weaken? make the sage need to be revived? and are these the sages of OoT, meaning Rauru or Saria could have been "slayed"? Scepia 05:11, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Because the Master Sword was made to repel and banish evil is why it could kill him. It's not the Master Sword that Ganondorf was impaled with by the Sages, as Ganndorf keeps that sword, and it's totally different in appearence to the Master Sword. And it is used by Ganondorf in the final battle, where both swords are present.

He was never killed, that's why. The Triforce protected him, but it couldn;t protect him from the Master Sword, for reasons mentioned above. And he must've died, as if you rememebr, Zant says that as long as Ganondorf is alive, he will live. Yet when the Triforce fades, Zant dies. Therefore, Ganondorf must've died. And remember, Ganon can be revied, like seen in the Oracle games etc...

Slay means he killed the Sage, which he did. However, these Sages were not the same as the ones from ocarina; after all, these ones seemed to be made of pure light, and only guard the Twilight Mirror and handle affairs with it, such as criminal basnishment.

Hope I have answered some of your questions. (61.91.191.6 13:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC))

when Ganondorf was executed, how was that any different from his death by the Master Sword? your logic seems to be what happens in the series, but it is confusing. Scepia 00:58, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Look, there is nothing really confirmed, but there are a lot of possible reasons. First, it could be possible that the Light Master Sword was simply more powerful than the Sword used by the Sages to impale Ganondorf, and that's why he survived it. Second, maybe the first Light Sword attack was just able to weaken Ganondorf, as he called upon his triforce of power to survive. However, his white glowing wound has never healed, and that's what his weak point was. Impaling the scar again with the Master Sword, that was finally enough to beat Ganondorf. Third, it could be that the triforce of power was simply exhausted after the fight with Link. After all, it had to keep Ganondorf alive after his "execution", in his spirit Form in the twilight realm, it had to give him a new human body and it had to face off against another triforce wielder. After Ganondorf wa smortally wounded a second time, there simply wa snot enough power left to live on. And finally, maybe the power of the Sword depended on the power of the wielder. That would explain why the triforce-possessing hero of courage was able to slay Ganondorf, while the sages were not. Serpit

Sounds like OR to me. All we can really go on is what's in the games and what's been explicitly stated. Far be it from me to stop you from speculating, but please leave it out of the articles. -- Digital Watches! 06:32, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Just some input I want to add in about this article, and also some changes I want to make to this article itself. One, I believe that Ganondorf didn't have the Triforce of Power until after he was impaled with the Sword of Light. If he had it, he wouldn't have let himself be captured. Just as the sages say, by some divine prank, he was chosen as a wielder of power of the Gods. Yes, he survives his impalement because of this sudden boost in his power, and yes, he killed one of the sages. However, he didn't come out of it without injury - his chest still has the injury he receieved, to which Link in the final battle uses in to his advantage to defeat Ganondorf. Also, the mention of Laruto in the article is pure speculation, and should be removed. I'll go ahead and do that. --WarriorofZarona 20:16, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

If you are interested in studying Zelda, than you would learn that the only weapons capable of inflicting damage on Ganon are the Master Sword, Light Arrows, and Silver Arrows. The Master Sword doesn't need to be filled with Sols to defeat him, and the sword the the sages used, even though filled with Sols, wasn't much more than an ordinary blade.

The sages also say they overestimated themselves - and they say Ganondorf HAD been chosen, not that he was right then. In any case, the reason given by Ganondorf himself has nothing to do with the Triforce. He claims the malice left behind by the imprisoned Twili as the thing that repowered. Since the ToP only pumps up his dark magic, it would make sense for him to be captured even though he had it, if his magic had run out.

And he's captured/defeated tons of times, even with the ToP. It's not that powerful. If it was, Link could do the same thing and never worry about being beaten.74.140.118.84 06:34, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, not sure if this was stated, but this section is very long to read. anyway. Ganondorf was "executed" by the sages, different from Ocarina of Time. He did kill a sage because, as we see in OoT, a sage is merely a normal being with enlightened powers. Also, stated in the OoT, the Master Sword is the only sword that is the "bane of evil". And is the sole blade capable is slaying Ganondorf for good. The triforce's power cannot be "exhausted" for it is a gift from the goddesses. But rather it left Ganondorf because it feels he is no longer worthy of wielding the Triforce of Power, because in OoT it states that the Triforce pieces go to the one it feels best represents it, so it obviously no longer felt Ganondorf worthy. The Master Sword weakened him, but didn't cause him to die. However, without a triforce piece, Ganondorf is open to death, and with the link he shared with Zant, Zant was able to kill him, because it was his wish (OR moment, maybe because he thought Ganondorf failed him as a God). and a request, no more useless responses like "This is only original research". Please, stop with that, if we say we want to put it in the article, then critique it. otherwise, be quiet. C. Pineda 08:27, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Again, the Triforce of Power does not give him any new powers, it really only strengthens those he has. As for inexhaustible - that's shown to be false many a time - even Link's and Zelda's don't work like that - the Triforces merely strengthen what is already there. For "worthy" - that's for the first time they are touched by an unworthy - after that, it's whoever can grab them. Ganon shows this many times in the series. I actually doubt that it truly "left him", as in every other case of that happening, an actual golden triangle comes out of Ganondorf - the crest doesn't just disappear. The avatar theory might explain it, but still, all it seems is that, again, he has lost his power, so the Triforce has nothing to increase. As for his dark magic - yes, the game even says this - that he was not revived by the Triforce, but that his powers were returned by being so close to such hate and malice as the execution grounds.

"Sage"-...nearly all the sages in OoT seemed to have already died - in fact, a few of them (like Darunia) had to have already died. Think Highlander - they come back from the dead, and then gain their power.

"Master Sword" - actually, it just said that it was the "Blade of Evil's Bane" - the Four Sword is another, and apparently the Golden Sword works too.

My own personal theory about the execution, which actually explains why the Sage's thought they had overestimated their ability (as opposed to the popular, contradictory theory that the Goddesses suddenly chose to imbue a captured, powerless criminal with the ToP) is that, like each game with the Sages shows, they are integral to maintaining the seal...but what if they wanted to be done with Ganon? They must have either seen or guessed that as long as he was not fully dead, the seal was just a stall. He was also stripped of his power at the end of OoT - he still had the Triforce, but not anything for it to operate, as was shown. So, wouldn't it be very simple for them to just release the seal, take him to the old execution grounds (or just open the seal there, away from people he could harm, since it's hard to imagine them transporting him in a cage or something), and attempt to remove him once and for all?

Then the stories for OoT and TP nicely mesh - because no matter how you look at the end of OoT, Ganondorf was still a threat: Link went back to the point after Ganondorf had already placed the curses, and so it is quite possible there was his earlier self still playing through the Child part of the game - this could also explain Majora's Mask and why Navi left, as this would be the time Navi was called by the Great Deku Tree (which would conveniently explain why Link can't find her - she only exists in a time loop), and Link was racing either to prevent his earlier self from letting Ganondorf get to the Triforce, or merely looking for Navi (since it might actually be safer to let a known configuration play through, since Link knows Ganondorf will eventually be defeated). This would also neatly explain some of the "Time paradoxes" in the game, like the Song of Storms.

It could be postulated that killing Ganondorf in the Adult timeline removed him from both timelines - but in that case, why didn't Zelda immediately send Link back to before Ganondorf got the Triforce, and kill him then? It doesn't make sense to have to save both periods unless there is a disparate element to them.KrytenKoro 15:06, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Um. Possibly unsourced statements/OR?

I'm not sure of this, but it seems like a lot of statements in this article are original research. The one that REALLY caught my attention was the statement that Hena is a descendant of the fisherman in OoT. Now, while it's entirely plausible that Nintendo would have such a detail as some sort of easter egg, it sounds more like the same theorizing that leads to the assumption that any given Zelda game is tied to all the others in a direct, chronological manner, which I've yet to hear an official statement for. So could we get some sources or get rid of some of this assumed information? -- Digital Watches! 02:52, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

we know TP takes place 100 years or so after OoT (per Nintendo Power mag). just go to the Fishing Spot, look at the picture of the fisher from OoT, and she'll mention there's a possible relation. honestly, why do we need sources for much anything? Scepia 07:57, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

While NP is usually reliable enough, I have two main gripes. One, a resemblance in a picture isn't exactly explicit. Two, NP is an American publication, and may not get all of its information from the team responsible for creating the Zelda series and/or keeping track of whatever continuity the games may have. The second one isn't so major, but even so, I say we should leave it out of the article until we've got an explicit source. -- Digital Watches! 23:58, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

it was an interview with Aonuma, and it would be pretty hard to screw up the translation of 100 from Japanese to English. the 100 years thing was stated before as well. "Twilight Princess was developed with Ocarina of Time as its starting point, so there are aspects of the story that are based on Ocarina of Time. The main connection is that Twilight Princess is set about a hundred years after Ocarina of Time."

EDIT: well, we don't need to source everything. we all know Midna's name is Midna. is a source going to make that more real? honestly, if it's so obvious as this is, what's the problem? I'm quite sure no one would honestly say different. Scepia 01:31, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Very wrong. Things like a constant continuity between the games is not "obvious" as you have said, and thus strictly needs sourcing as per the policies of Wikipedia. Midna's name is stated in-game, and I don't even understand how those two situations are comparable. As for this interview, please find a copy from a reliable source that's verifiable by an independent source and then we can use it. -- Digital Watches! 06:24, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

New problem: Telma. Are the rumors that call her a Gerudo descendant in-game? If not, that sentence should be removed, and I will do so. If someone reverts it, please point out that the rumors mentioned are in the game itself, otherwise it's OR. -- Digital Watches! 23:58, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

never heard of it in game, although digging around a lot might yield that rumor in the game. Scepia 01:31, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

If there's no source for it and it's not in game, then it's OR or speculation. -- Digital Watches! 06:25, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

There is no Moblin King, those are Bulblin and his name is Lord Bullbo

This is a common misconception, there are NO moblins in Twilight Princess, those are Bulblin a whole new race exclusive to Twilight Princess, seemingly based off of Lord of the Ring Orcs. Here is artificial artwork from the official Japanese site.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/PHANTOM_EXE87/Picture42.png

I am correcting this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.119.64.233 (talk) 02:00, 20 December 2006 (UTC).

I was under the impression that Bulblin was just the Romanised Japanese spelling of the creatures known as Moblins in the Western translations. The Romanised text on the picture reads: "King Bulblin & Lord Bullbo" note the "&" that means that Lord Bullbo is not the name of 'King Bulbin' but more likely the name of his steed (if you can call something thats not a horse a steed). Changing the origional Romanization of Japanese names is common in games to make the names sound more like they are conventionally prounounced in the West. For Example in the game 'Final Fantasy VII' the caractor Arith became Aris in the West. So to present a picture from a Japanese website is probably not the best evidence of a caractors name in the West. It would be the equivilent of using a french Website to argue that the english word for twilight is crépuscule. I am not 100% sure either way of the names of these charactors in the UK and US but if they are Bulblins a little more evidence is needed than a picture from a Japanese website (is there a similar page on the english language websites for example, that'd be fine so long as it was the official nintendo one or a scan of the page in the official guide showing the name). Shearluck 23:49, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

"The original Japanese name for the Moblin is モリブリン" (wikipedia article about moblins). Compare. I wanted to check another site too, but I couldn't find it back. Anyway, I guess it's fairly safe to assume Bulblins and Moblins are not the same.DreamingLady 09:36, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I know the japanese site says that it is King Bulblin, but a lot of the japanese names were drastically changed for the american release. Do you know if there is an official source for your claim?128.211.254.142 05:47, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Golden Wolf or Undead Warrior?

I was just wondering what we should to refer to this character by. Personally, I would say the latter, as it is an Undead Warrior who masquerades as a wolf, and doesn't seem to be the other way around. --Zooba 11:37, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Calling them "Undead Warriors" might be a spoiler. -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 11:39, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Plus, the Prima Guide refers to them as either a White Wolf or Hero's Shade. -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 11:42, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I think it'd be best to mark it as the Hero's Shade. I don't think that the prominence of spoilers is a good argument - the page is full of them as it is. I'll rename the section Hero's Shade and alphabetise it correspondingly. --Zooba 22:34, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't know hwy the Prima guide is considered God, but the official Nintendo Power guide calls it the Hero'

s Spirit. That is its official name. in fact, rather then getting acceptance to this, I'm gonna change it, if it hasn't already. C. Pineda 02:45, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Identity of Hero's Shade

Given that it is the only one major game confirmed to precede Twilight Princess, can't it be inferred that he is the Link from Ocarina of Time? --Guess Who 00:10, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

However, although OoT is the only Zelda title to proceed TP, anything could have happened between them. --Zooba 01:30, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Nothing says that anything major happened in that timespan. --Guess Who 00:33, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

actually, Majora's Mask comes before TP as well. what we know is OoT -> MM and also OoT -------> TP. but none of this speculation belongs on Wikipedia. Scepia 02:05, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Majora's Mask features the same Link as Ocarina of Time. --Guess Who 00:33, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Also keep in mind that we haven't verified any source that connects OoT with TP, as far as I'm concerned. -- Digital Watches! 06:27, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Several interviews have noted that Twilight Princess comes after Ocarina, and prior to Wind Waker. --Guess Who 00:33, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

"Go and do not falter, my child." Wasn't this line said to Link in Ocarina by the Deku Tree? -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 06:31, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

No. --Guess Who 00:33, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

...And? -- Digital Watches! 06:56, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

if it's the same, that's interesting at least. sadly, it is OR. maybe we'll get an interview about that soon :) Merry Christmas! Scepia 07:14, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Looking at all the evidence in TP, I have a hard time believing it's only 100 years after OOT. More like 200 at the least. Anything could have happened in between. Maybe Hero's Shade is the one who imprisoned Ganondorf so the sages could kill him. And why would he have to be OOT Link? There have likely been Links before him (even if OOT was the first in the timeline.) that could be him. And again, he doesn't have to be a Link either. I mean, he's a lot bigger, wears different clothes and talks!(^^)

The Link from Ocarina IS the one who imprisoned Ganondorf. If you'll recall, the game ends with Ganondorf being sealed with the sages in the Sacred Realm. There may have been Links before him (Minish Cap and Four Swords Links are commonly said to be before them), but Hero's Shade has not died yet (recall that he says he had to pass on the skills before he could pass on), so he must have been a recent Link. He's not substantially bigger, and obviously he can't wear the Hero's Clothes because the current-day Link is wearing them. He talks, but there's no reason he can't, since he's not the player character anymore. --Guess Who 20:53, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Don't tell me you think the scene shown in TP is the ending of OOT. Those were completely different in every single aspect! I'm talking about who got Ganondorf in those chains after his return. And why would he have to be a recent Link? Why couldn't he be an older one?DreamingLady 21:35, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

The "scene shown"? Which one? Only one scene prior to fighting him actually had Ganondorf in it, and he wasn't mentioned again until after the Zant battle. The game never mentioned him making a "return" prior to the events of the game. --Guess Who 01:20, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

The one in which the Sages send Ganondorf to the Twilight Realm (cause they couldn't think of anything else :/). It is shown when Link first meets them in TP. It is not the ending of OOT, meaning that after his banishment in OOT, he has come back at least once and then was send to the Twilight Realm. That means someone other than OOT Link defeated Ganondorf prior to TP (even if it was an army that defeated Ganondorf, there still has to be one person who risked and did more to get that result). Maybe that person is Hero's shade.DreamingLady 07:45, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

The ending of OoT has Ganondorf trapped with the Sages in the Sacred Realm, right? After he is trapped in the Sacred Realm with the sages, he kills one of them and the rest banish him to the Twilight Realm to keep him from causing more damage. That's what the scene shows. --Guess Who 08:52, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay, what's all this business of Ganondorf being in the Sacred Realm/Dark World as the sages send him to the Twilight Realm from there? That all happened at the Arbiter's Grounds, which is found in Gerudo Desert, which is found in the LIGHT REALM. In my speculation, Ganon was never in the Sacred Realm before this event. He never escaped nor did he ever enter the Sacred Realm, meaning he was "arrested" by the sages for a heinous crime, involving either control of Hyrule, or the breach of the Sacred Realm - which is why Ganon is all tied up with chains. Jeremy Plaza 12:09, July 1, 2007

The ending has Ganondorf with the Triforce of Power, something the Sages know getting trapped into the Sacred Realm. I don't believe the Sages got trapped with him, since Zelda didn't go either. Anyway, that doesn't matter. The Arbiter's ground however is located in the Light World. The Sages don't look or act like the ones we know from Ocarina of Time (who were prepared to face danger head on and alone). These things are cowards of the worst kind, sacrificing others just so they are safe (ie, sending Ganon to the Twilight Realm, leaving the Twili to deal with him).DreamingLady 10:14, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

The Sages stay in the Sacred Realm anyway - that's where the Temple of Light is. We don't know if Zelda went with them, since she sends Link back to the past and that's the last we see of her. Arbiter's Grounds is indeed in the Light World, but the Sages obviously have some business there, since they have Ganondorf chained against the rock right in front of the mirror. The Sages don't look like the ones from Ocarina, but then, they don't look anything like their future counterparts in the Wind Waker either in that they do not take on their original appearance before they became Sages, so their appearance could be considered a retcon of their original. Third, the characters in Ocarina by and large had little personality. Character development prior to Majora's Mask was never a strong point of the series, so remarks about their personality have little bearing. --Guess Who 22:00, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

And they aren't required in their own temples? Then why would those exist in the first place? Though the chamber of sages, or whatever that place is called, is located in the Temple of Light, there's no reason to assume they stay there forever. It is implied that there's a sage bloodline in various TLOZs, and being stuck somewhere were you can't reproduce doesn't seem like a very good idea to secure that bloodline. Besides, isn't it implied Impa got a descendant? One we don't see or have reason to assume existed in OOT? (okay, there's no real reason to assume he/she wasn't born at that time either). Zelda also can't have gone with them for otherwise we wouldn't have a royal family anymore. Back to the topic of Light World-Sacred Realm/Dark World: you're saying yourself they can still travel between the Light World and Sacred Realm(?). So why are we talking about being stuck in the Sacred Realm? And "if" this was what they did to try to kill Ganondorf after OOT, why didn't they do this earlier? You know, when sage nr. 7 and the Hero and the Master Sword (sage nr. 8 and 9) helped them and they had a better chance? And no, it is not for the ToP. Besides, when and why should he have lost it? I don't really care the sages don't look like the ones from OOT (although I wonder why they all look so....human :\), but their personality is significantly different. OOT did have a good focus on personality. Even ALTTP had that (or otherwise, LA). And those are not what the sages from TP have. Also, I'm terribly sorry, but I don't understand what you are saying about the looks of the sages. Could you repeat that?DreamingLady 01:42, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Those aren't the sages of OOT. The game says that they are ancient and guarded the mirror since ancient times. Bly1993 03:14, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Isn't this section about the Hero's Shade? Anyway, dosn't anyone think it's worth mentioning that the Shade mentions that none of the tecniques after number five don't go outside their bloodline, implining that they're related?

I think he may have been implying the bloodline of the hero, of which Link is (and presumably the hero's Shade as well, wha with his last pieces of dialouge in the game). That doesn't necessarily mean they're ancestrally related, but I suppose it's not out of the question. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.62.64.131 (talk) 03:05, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

70.23.11.193 00:08, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

The Ocarina of Time ends with the seven sages sealing Ganon in the Sacred Realm, which later became the Dark World (ALttP). The sages are all "alive" afterwards, and they knew Ganon had the Triforce of Power BECAUSE HIS THEFT OF IT PRECIPITATED THE EVENTS OF THE GAME. In Twilight Princess, they chain him up at the prison grounds and attempt to execute him. AT THAT TIME, he gains the Triforce of Power, slays a sage, and is sent to the TWILIT REALM, which was made specifically to keep the Twili AWAY from the Sacred Realm. The two stories are as opposite as you can get while still having Ganondorf sealed.

As for the Hero's Shade, OOT Link was never stated to have failed in his quest to become a hero, and it is implied that Shade was unable to finish the deed; he is probably the one who played a part in sealing Ganon in the Twilit Realm, this would indeed count as a failure. At any rate, the fact that he's a ghost implies that he died trying to save Hyrule, and he is definitely older than Link was at the end of Majora's Mask. There's really nothing but the nostalgia linking him to OoT Link, and as for knowing the "magic songs"? The Hylian Royal family (and random bystanders) knew most of them too, and besides, they're magic songs. You know what they are when you find them.128.211.181.52 23:37, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Considering there is nothing whatsoever to even imply that he's the Hero of Time. He looks completely different from Link, and wields a sword in his RIGHT hand (yeah, the GC version came later an whatnot, but since it was the first announced, and since Nintendo has implied SO MUCH that the Wii versions' mirroring is non canonical). Also, Ganondorf never LOST the triforce of power. Not yet, anyway. Also, the thing about being a ghost implys nothing of saving hyrule. Otherwise, the above user is someone I agree with ALOT. No offence, but it seems like the only reason people even thought he's OoT Link is because they're excessive OoT fanboys. I IMPLY NO INSULTS TO ANYBODY. It's THERE opinion, I acknowledge it, just saying that it seems people are just trying to find connections to OoT. It's creepy. -Chao9999 00:22, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Even though I don't think he's OOT Link, or maybe even a Link at all, I have to admit there are a few hints. And I'm pretty sure that in the NGC version, HS is a lefty. I agree about everything else. Especially the part about OOT fanboys. I simply hate them (note: fanboys, not fans. The difference is a brain. (BTW, also not saying everyone who think he's OOT Link is a fanboy, even though most are)). Kinda like them trying to prove everything that has an eye(-ish) symbol is a Sheikah. Or better, thinking the Sages always have been the same individuals.DreamingLady 08:35, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

BING. Right there, basically *WARNING: This may offend some* only hardcore OoT fanboys who think OoT is the best and unbeatable and thought that there even WAS a plot (come ON, almost no real plot progression, good game, but seriously, plot wasn't strong), thinks that the "Hero of Time" is the only Link, and thinks that Ganondorf is brown because in ONE scene he looks brown-ISH, and they cannot bother to play future games because WW is "too kiddy" and TP is "on a lame system". Whoa, rant. *Ok, you can come back now*. Anyway, my point is that it seems like people are just trying desperately to find connections with OoT. It's just stuipid, really. -Chao9999 00:11, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Regardless of whether he's OoT's Link or another Link i think its pretty obvious that he's a Link of some sorts. Afterall Link is a master swordsman and considering that these are master skills with the sword its common sense. And by the way i think that is the same Link from OoT myself. Kou Nurasaka 2:40, 22 May 2007

---

He is another Link; it doesn't matter which Link he is (he doesn't necessarily have to be any of the Links from the games). Even if N has yet to confirm it, there's far too much evidence that he is another Link.

1. He says that he "accepted the life of the Hero". And who is always called "the Hero"? Link.

2. He says that the last 2 or 3 of the Hidden Skills are never taught to those outside the bloodline of the Hero, or in other words, those who are not Link.

3. Identical fighting style and choice of weaponry.

4. Like TP's Link, he too can transform into a Wolf.

5. Like the other Links, he too has an affinity for music.

6. Seriously, who else could it be? Some other master swordsman who fights just like a Link would and was another Hero? Yeah, right. Besides, this is Zelda we're talking about here, a series of games with a massive, epic medieval fantasy storyline. A common fantasy plot element is having the Wise Old Mentor who teaches the Protagonist be a past relative of the Protagonist, and the Zelda storyline is FILLED with common fantasy plot elements (done well, mind you, but common nonetheless).

7. Every other sword-wielding foe in the game has a dominant hand that's the opposite of Link's (in other words, in the GC version Link and the Hero's Shade are left-handed and everybody else is right-handed. In the Wii version Link and the Hero's Shade are right-handed and everybody else is left-handed). Psydon 18:46, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

If you can't reliably source it (I'm quite sure you can't), it's original research and should not be added to the article.--Atlan (talk) 20:46, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

The 'little group' at Telma's

The four people at Telma's; Ashei, Auru, Shad, and Rusl...what do you think they call their group? Obviously they're paramilitary, and they make better soldiers than what we've seen of the Hyrulian Army, so wouldn't you think they'd be knighted after the events of the main story? That is, of course, if Link mentioned them to the Princess. Anyway, if they got knighted, what if they'd be known as the Guardian Knights, as those mentioned in A Link to the Past?

Either way, the group should be placed in a single sub-header. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.248.154.51 (talk) 01:55, 28 December 2006 (UTC).

They are called "the resistance" are they not? andre1010

"Aisha was the girl in the Resistance Movement who pointed you towards Peak Province."[1] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Scepia (talk • contribs) 07:32, 1 January 2007 (UTC).

Main Character Descriptions

...Should be kept on their main article. Thats how it works. (61.91.191.8 15:44, 1 January 2007 (UTC))

{{editprotected}}on the Ilia page the statement:and according to the game's official website, she has true affection for him.[23] should be deleted as the official website does not in any way prove this and it goes against the Fringe Theroy ruleGoldenWolfy (talk) 23:42, 30 May 2008 (UTC)Tera

 Not done It has a source. The official website is not often a reliable source, so taking info from there is not proof one way or the other. PeterSymonds (talk) 08:23, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

sry if i wasnt supposed to use the editprotected thing again. I meant that his source gave no evidence at all

Postman

The postman makes appearances throughout this game. Shouldn't he therefore also get a mention?

I wouldn't know why not. He's the only not storyline related character that returns in this game and should be mentioned.DreamingLady 21:51, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I put the Postman in. His article is rather short, so if anyone wants to flesh it out, be my guest. I did mention that he hums the "Zelda chime" and the "You found a key" tune when he delivers letters, but I know how some of you feel about trivia. --Luke

Clean up needed!

Not one as urgent as when we did the bosses, but one is needed nonetheless. This time it's the details that people are forgetting. By "little details", I am referring to proper formatting ie. the correct formatting of game titles (in italics, please), and correct wiki-linking (ie. proper page titles, using the # formatting, etc.)

Also, as nice as it is to see the page expand so much, we need to keep a general standard. First of all, I think it would be a very good idea to implement links to the Places in The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess page wherever possible, and vica versa. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zooba (talk • contribs) 22:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC).

• And yes, it is indeed wonderfully ironic that I bemoan bad formatting before forgetting to sign my comment. I was rushed off the computer. --Zooba 22:42, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

• Did a minor clean-up on Argorok's section: removed the part about the battle-area resembling a Harry Potter Quidditch ring, as it wasn't relevant to the article.--Aveil 23:28, 19 January 2007 (UTC)Aveil

Dark Rider?!

In the boss section, there is a boss called Dark Rider, Ganondorf. Even though you did fight Ganondorf on horseback, that battle wasnt considered a true boss fight because it lacked the subtitles giving the bosses name and a little description and Dark Rider, Ganondorf isnt an official name. I don't think the mention of the fight should be removed but it definitely should not be titled with made up names liked Dark Rider, but simply it should be mentioned in between the other two boss fights. I'm sorry if Dark Rider, Ganondorf was an official name and I just forgot about it but I definitely dont remember Dark Rider as a name. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jarvisganon (talk • contribs) 22:09, 5 January 2007 (UTC).

Um, I also just noticed that there is another unofficial boss: the Feeder of Darkness, Twilit Bloat. That is also another unofficial name- that fight wasnt even really a boss, that giant insect guy you fought was more of a sub-boss. He should be just plain taken out of the article. Where are these names coming from?!

Those names are featured in the PRIMA Official Game Guide for TP, at least, and so I believe they are rather credible, although to my knowledge the guide doesn't explicitly say these are the names NOA certifies. I agree that the Twilit Bloat is not a major boss and shouldn't be listed under the "boss" category. But if the motion (below) to include minibosses is agreed upon, someone should move it there. --Tryforceful 09:56, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I thought those names came from a strategy guide, I wouldn't consider them official. If someone has a Nintendo Power strategy guide, I think it would be good to use those.

Prima makes stuff up, until we get a credible source, no trust to them. Nuff said. -Chao9999 00:12, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Nintendo's player guide calls the fight Dark Lord Ganon then lists a on horseback phase and a final battle phase, maybe we could do something like Dark Lord Ganon on Horseback and Dark Lord Ganon Final Battle, although it probably isn't neccessary. BassxForte 20:53, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Minibosses

I'm wondering whether to put minibosses somewhere in there. What does anyone think? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.77.61.40 (talk) 06:11, 7 January 2007 (UTC).

Ook and goron-guard-person definetely should be on the page. I'm not sure about the rest.DreamingLady 09:51, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. I'll add those two to the bosses section.

Hmm...come to think of it, maybe they should go in the secondary chaaracters section. That might work better.

Skull Kid

Look, I don't know who would be stupid enough to make a fuss over a freaking lantern in the first place, but oh well. I scrounged the internet and couldn't find a damn thing about the lantern or any screenshots (proof that it's a stupid thing to fuss over). If I feel like doing another play-through, I'll happily take a photo of the Skull kid to prove my statement. But seriously, if anyone with at least half a brain sees the close-ups the game makes of the Skull Kid, if they look at the ground they will clearly see the lantern emits rainbow-colored light. My point is, if anyone could be so kind as to help, I would very much appreciate it. Thanks.SilentWind 00:20, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

(As in, the light INSIDE the lantern appears blue but the light it casts around the Sacred Grove is a rainbow of colors).SilentWind 00:21, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not doubting it's true, but the real question here is, does it matter? JackSparrow Ninja 00:51, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think his section should be written as "he" when Skull Kid (Stalchild, rather. The Stalchilds in the english version are Stalbabies) is a species of monster (very likely transformed Kokiri). This isn't fanon either, there are clearly multiple Skull Kids in the Lost Woods in Ocarina of Time.

And they all get the Skull Mask at the same time, and if you kill one, they all disappear together. Plus, Majora's Mask refers to it as one, fairly ancient and important being, and says nothing about him being cursed. It's fair to assume that this was another urban legend designed to keep the Kokiri in and others out of the forest (just like the "Kokiri will die if they leave the forest" lie.128.211.179.52 17:16, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Malo Mart

Does anyone have a Spanish-language version of the PAL edition of this game, and can tell me whether Malo's name was changed? Seems like they probably would have.. cuz otherwise that shop would sound hilarious. Lol "Bad Mart"

Oocca

So Ooccoo is the american name, and its real name is Obachan/Gramma... so then what is the real name of the 'Oocca' race? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.122.208.51 (talk) 19:22, 6 March 2007 (UTC).

A SLIGHT resemblance to Ridley?!

If you asked me, I think that Argorok (in his first form) looks like a red and black version of Meta-Ridley from Metroid Prime (not any other Meta-Ridley, just this one). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.222.232.9 (talk) 03:06, 9 March 2007 (UTC).

Bosses non-notable?

Uhm... mind explaining why you find the bosses non-notable characters?[2]
I've got a feeling not everyone agrees.

Cheers JackSparrow Ninja 09:20, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Not-notable in a character article. And they're not not-notable characters - they're not characters. - A Link to the Past (talk) 23:21, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

The boss section is fine. I would suggest leaving it alone. They play an important role in the game. If you don't think they are notable enough, why not just remove almost every character listed in this article?Pastel kitten 20:00, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

So conversely, why not add every single living creature in Zelda TP to the article? Wikipedia is a discriminate collection of information, and really, the majority of the bosses are only there as a more significant enemy - they have no backstory, no forestory, no personality, unknown intelligence (with the exception of the Fire Temple boss), no relationships to speak of. They're really just a part of the gameplay, like an enemy would be - I mean for instance, most of the bosses are replaceable, as they only serve to block the player from progressing. - A Link to the Past (talk) 04:19, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't get why they're in the 'characters' article. They really belong in the 'enemies' article, but those don't exist for individual games, and it would be choked if all bosses were included, so I think bosses belong on the game's article. Still, they're fine here. In several cases the bosses are themselves transformed characters.

Like I've said before, the only notable enough bosses are either important bosses like Ganon or Majora, or recurring bosses like Vire (from the Oracle games). - A Link to the Past (talk) 21:34, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Diababa is merely a curse of the Fused Shadows, and the only effect it has had is to poison it's own little pool. So, not really notable. Fyrus is important, as it effects all of the Gorons. Morpheel is slightly important, as it has affected all of the Lake and Hyrule Castle Town by draining the lake. Stallord is kind of important because it is animated by Zant, but only he knows it's even there, so really not. Plus, it's not even cursing anything, so it's very literally only an obstacle for Link, and not a real problem. Blizzeta is surely important to the story. Armogohma is like Stallord and Diababa - only noticeable because it is there. It isn't even casting darkness on the region. Argorok is surely important, as all of the Oocca notice it, and it has been tormenting them.

So, Fyrus, Blizzeta, and Argorok are story important, Morpheel is noticeable, and Diababa, Stallord, and Armogohma have no contribution to the story. If we wanted to be very legalistic, we should remove at least the last three, but that makes the section look weird. So, make your own decisions.128.211.254.142 04:46, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Armogohma is kind of notable because it's another appearance of Gohma, but that still doesn't affect the story... Oh, and I created a Bosses in The Legend of Zelda series in order to split off a portion of the Enemies article, in case that helps. Gurko 13:05, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Ganon

I fail to see how he's leonine (lionlike)... I mean he has a mane, but he's always had one. His tail is quite wolflike, and bizarrely he seems to have ape paws.. I remember them being hooves in the game, but I guess I don't remember properly. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.72.21.221 (talk) 22:47, 15 March 2007 (UTC).

You are right about how Ganon is more leonine. I was told this new Ganon is a cross-breed of boar/wolf/lion. However, the paws were taken from a human, just modified to fit the Ganon persona. Jeremy Plaza 12:20 July 1, 2007

Fado

In the Fado section when talking about the name relations it says, "a deceased sage in The Wind Waker." Could someone put insted, "the former sage of the forest" or "the deceased forest sage in the Wind Waker" or maybe get rid of it all together, since we're warning them about "Twilight Princess" spoilers, not "Wind Waker" spoilers...Maybe?...Please?...

Well, it's not the Forest Sage, it's the Wind Sage. And it's not really a spoiler, since you get to it in the first half of the game, and there's really no suspense attached to it. KoRL seems to know there would be a sage, so it's not a mystery like why Ganon is back, or who KoRL is.128.211.254.142 04:48, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

well...he...was in the...forest...nevermind 16:06, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Fado doesn't appear in the Forest - he only appears on Gale Isle. The Korok appears on Forest Haven, yes, but he's not dead, and he's not Fado.KrytenKoro 01:30, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Source for Character Names?

Charlo Chudley/Malver, Soal Doctor Borville Kili, Hanna, Misha

I personally cannot find any instance in the game where any of these names are given, so I don't know where the names come from (they are not on the official site or player's guide, either). Then again, the game script faq says that the three girls cheer you on while you play S.T.A.R, and I haven't gotten them to do that either, so maybe it's just really hard to find that text. If it is the latter, there should at least be a note so that people will know, because it's not presented clearly in the game. At all.128.211.254.142 04:51, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

The three girls will cheer if you get...I don't know I think it was like two or more star things. As for the names, I have noo idea. I don't recall hearing any names or reading any in the manual/site either. I think it should be removed or changed...or something... 16:10, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

The three girls cheer for you when you get three or more STARS. Also, as a side note, the girls represent each Goddess by their hair colour; red, blue and green, for Din, Nayru and Farore respectively. Jeremy Plaza 12:17, July 1, 2007

Cleanup badly needed

This page is NOT supposed to be a game guide - yet the boss section especially has been turned into such. The only reason the bosses are allowed to be here at all is that they are somewhat important, and are thus semi-characters. If the game guide stuff can't be removed without damaging the boss sections, then the boss sections cannot stay here.KrytenKoro 01:39, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Blizzeta

Um...anyone know where Blizzeta went? She's not on the page. She's definitely a story-important boss, and she needs to go back. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.77.61.40 (talk) 16:34, 6 May 2007 (UTC).

She's right here. No need for two seprate entries of the same character.Takuthehedgehog 17:40, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

vandalism on links profile

i belive this should be fixed promtly i tried to but it did not work —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.49.245.166 (talk) 06:19, 13 May 2007 (UTC).

Link, Midna, Zelda

Anything relevant to Link should be in the main Link article. The same with Zelda, and Ganondorf. However, Midna only appears in this game - sure, she's a major character, but still, ONLY IN THIS GAME - her article should be merged with this one.

In fact, most of the information about those are just repeats of the plot of the game - really doesn't belogn here.KrytenKoro 05:20, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Japanese removed...

When Midna's page was merged with the main TP character page, the mentions of her last line in Japanese and the obvious liberty the translators took in translating it have been removed.

I personally think it's an outstanding point that probably needs to be mentioned, as there is now so much speculation about the English version (what she was going to say when she trailed off at "I"). However, I haven't seen the Japanese version of the game myself, so I can't say if it's actually true.

Feel free to prove me wrong. I just think if you're going to quote what Midna says at the end, you must then include what the writers truly intended for her to say in the original Japanese version.

The source given said it was a translation from a beta version. The text could have been changed in the final Japanese release. Takuthehedgehog 15:53, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes you have a point however it is revealed that americans left this as another clue and even if anyone disagrees it had to go through the japanese and they were ok with it a few rumours are the americans added to tell people that Midna is Links love

Darkest-Link33 (talk) 02:29, 23 May 2008 (UTC)Erik

...no. You need to actually know what the Japanese version said before claiming "it could have been like this in the Japanese"

ありがとうな・・・ (Thank you...)

Thank you...

姫さんが、言ったろ (Like the princess said,)

Well, the princess spoke truly:

鏡がある限り、また会えるって・・・ (Only as long as that mirror exists, there would still be meetings...)

as long as that mirror's around, we could meet again...

[Link]・・・ (Link...)

[Link]...

ま・・・ (D...)

I...

またな・・・ (Don't wait for me...)

See you later...

As you can see, the "I..." is a fabrication of the American translators. As such, it definitely doesn't mean that Midna is supposed to love Link, since it's not even in the original, and only there for lack of a better syllable to insert.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 03:00, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Article Deletion for Zant and Wolf Link

Why were the articles for Zant and Wolf Link deleted? They are both important characters in the game and have a pretty major impact on the plot. But Wolf Link has a major impact on the plot. Jimblack 16:15, 27 May 2007 (UTC)JImblack

Both pages are not gone, they're redirects. I redirected Wolf Link to the Twilight Princess article myself. I did that, because before that, the page was mainly a TP plot description, instead of actually describing the Wolf Link character. Besides, Wolf Link is just Link in a different shape. We also don't give Ganon and Ganondorf different articles. Currently, Wolf Link is best covered in the TP article (it should be the Link article), so that's where it redirects to.

As for Zant, he is adequately covered in this article.--Atlan (talk) 18:06, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Twilight Princess Bosses

Since these are already covered on Bosses in The Legend of Zelda series, should we just have a "see: #Morpheel", type of thing?KrytenKoro 18:25, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

The Bosses in The Legend of Zelda series article is rather extensive for someone who is specifically looking for Twilight Princess bosses. It would mean having to go back and forth the articles just to click the redirects, because it's pretty hard to find the TP bosses in that long list (especially if you don't know their names). If anything, it should be the other way around, with this article being the "main article" for ther TP bosses. --Atlan (talk) 21:52, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

You mean "See: Morpheel" wouldn't work?KrytenKoro 22:16, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

I made sure all the material here was on the Bosses page - it turns out that almost all of them were word for word the same that we had here. The template might work better, but the links look okay for now.

Well, what I mean is this: That boss list article is just that, a list of bosses. If it were the main article for all the bosses in all the Zelda games, I think that list would become way too extensive (considering more Zelda games will undoubtedly follow). I think the article is already somewhat out of proportions the way it is. --Atlan (talk) 23:41, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

And yet, the reason that those specific bosses are in that section at the end of the article is that they are characters only by virtue of appearing in the game - other than being bosses, they have no place in the story. Since the bosses page is both more appropriate for them and contained the exact same information, the most we should do on this page is tell them to go to the correct page. If the list is too big, we could seperate it into bosses by game - first into subsections, and then seperate pages if necessary.KrytenKoro 23:51, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not really fond of the current situation either. I don't really like throwing all the bosses of every Zelda game together in one article as it is now, but I also don't like this copy/paste situation of all the boss info. I think this needs to be worked on on a Zelda-wide scale, not just Twilight Princess, though. Also, your suggestion of splitting up the boss article effectively creates the current situation, where the individual Zelda games have character articles with boss sections. That's not really an improvement. --Atlan (talk) 01:11, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

No. No, no, no, no, no. Doing something ON THE BOSSES PAGE like "Bosses of The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess", and then listing the bosses under that. Not putting them on the characters page.KrytenKoro 01:44, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I got that. But you also said seperate pages if necessary. Anyway, subsections in the boss list article is a good idea, but that needs to be discussed on that talk page first.--Atlan (talk) 11:22, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I see what you meant - I meant an A-M, N-Z type of split pages, not "Bosses of Twilight Princess" article just by itself.KrytenKoro 22:53, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

The "I..." in the last line of dialogue was added in by the NoA translators

From the final Japanese script; this is not a "beta version"

• 【ミドナ】
• ありがとうな…姫さんが言ったろ、鏡がある限り、また会えるって… // Thank you...As the princess said, as long as the mirror's still there, we can meet again
• リンク… ま…またな… // Link...s-see you...

The repeated character is a stutter, not "I..." so a "literal" translation would be simply "Link...s-see you." It appears that the stutter was changed to an "I..." by the NoA team. Wikipedian06 00:38, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

We don't need to go into that much detail over a single word. This is just a description of characters, not of the game and it's translation. Also, your source is some Japanese blog. That's not even a reliable source. Stop pushing this and the Goth edit already, you've been doing it since mid-May and everyone has reverted it.--Atlan (talk) 00:16, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I go into detail about this because otherwise, people keep posting their stupid speculation about what she really wanted to say, like the edit you just reverted. Wikipedian06 22:19, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

And I'll happily keep reverting all that OR and speculation. I accept your version of the story, since I can read that little bit of Japanese you posted as well. It's just that this is not the right article for that information (and the source isn't any good). That's why I like your current solution, removing the "I..." completely from the article, best. That section can probably be trimmed down even further (all the dialogue cut out), but I think it's okay now.--Atlan (talk) 22:36, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

...Okay? This is the english wikipedia, however - if you want to have a note that the japanese version said it (and you can source it), then fine. But if anything about that line is here, it needs to be the at least the english version.KrytenKoro 02:16, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

No, I don't agree with that, at least not as far as this article is concerned. Why would you want to copy/paste parts of the script? This is a list of characters, not the TP article. That said, it could maybe fit somewhere in the TP article under translation differences, but even that's a stretch. And as for cutting out all the dialogue from Midna's section, that's because a character discription shouldn't need to go into in-game dialogue at all, unless it's pertinent to character's personality. "I...see you later." doesn't really cut it.--Atlan (talk) 13:45, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't get what you're disagreeing with - I said that if there is a reason to have the line there (if going into more detail than "she said her farewells" is really necessary), then the English version needs to be used, since this is the English Wikipedia. If the versions really had enough translation discrepancy to even warrant a note on any article (which I highly doubt - I really don't see how this difference is important in the least), then yes, it should be on the TP article.KrytenKoro 07:27, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, just with having it on this article, but I think that's not really what you meant anyway. We're on the same page.--Atlan (talk) 12:11, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Fused Shadow on Midna's Head

Why didn't Zant take it when he took the other 3? Did he think she looked weird without it? I think we all thought that a little. Just like Demona without her tiara.

What you talkin about, Willis?

But seriously - because he didn't know about it, or because he was only able to take the other three because she hadn't "claimed them" as she claimed her helmet piece (you'll notice that after you get the third, even though you have all four pieces, they haven't joined together yet - maybe she has to bind herself to the power somehow).KrytenKoro 06:03, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

The Interlopers

I believe that's what they were called. The group associated with the Fused Shadow in the very bizarre flashback / illusion / vision that are represented as Shadow Links. Should they be in this article? I don't remember them ever being elaborated on at all besides that vision. TealMan 11:05, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

M.C. Escher's Human/Bird Sculpture

As some know, the M.C. Escher lithograph Still Life with Spherical Mirror and woodcut print Another World contain creatures that bear a very strong resemblance to the Oocca race. So much so that its hard to imagine this is mere coincidence. Is there some quote by Eiji Aonuma or some other member of the development team that gives due credit to these two artworks? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.226.41.102 (talk) 21:54, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Not from what I've heard of; the concept of a bird with a human head isn't too outlandish anyway, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is just mere coincidence. Haipa Doragon (talk) 15:56, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

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Name changes

We have three sources for official names: The game itself (see the text dump at ZeldaLegends), the official site and the official guide from Nintendo Power. None of those mention any of the old names. Either they are fancruft or taken from the Prima guide and thus inofficial/deemed to be changed. I'm pretty surprised this hasn't been done before. If you know an additional official source for this names, feel free to name it and change it back.

Borville -> Doctor (see in-game quotes) Chudley/Malver -> Shopkeeper (see official site) Chudley's Fine Goods and Fancy Trinkets Emporium -> overpriced shop (see Nintendo Power Guide) The Group -> the group (name is never capitalized, it's not like it's the NA title of the Resistance) Kili, Hanna, and Misha -> three girls

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Prime Blue (talk • contribs) 11:19, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

I actually said this earlier above, but nobody really answered my question, so I didn't want to change it without verification.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 11:56, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I read those comments and didn't see anyone intervening, so I changed them. We'd better not spread those false names (well, I guess it's a little too late, everyone already adopted them). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Prime Blue (talk • contribs) 22:30, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Ooccoo and Escher

Still Life with Spherical Mirror and Another World (M. C. Escher) by M. C. Escher remind me a lot of Ooccoo. Based on them maybe? I will not add though to article. WP:OR

Carlwev (talk) 20:40, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

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Love Interest?

I think we can all agree that Ilia is Link's love interest from the start of the game to at least the City in the Sky.

There are various quotes to support this, along with the Lanayru and Midna-shapeshifting scenes:

• Telma: "Don't you worry, honey! That girl's memory will come back!"
• Ilia: "You were always there... You were always beside me"
• Ilia: "You don't need to worry about me any longer. Whenever you return... I'll be waiting for you."
• Midna: (When taking the appearance of Ilia): "Are you sure you aren't forgetting anything important?"

Also, the manual states that Link is expected to be the next mayor of Ordona - the title that Ilia's father holds.

Besides Midna joking with Link at the very end of the game, I can't think of anything that could possibly be construed as another love interest - and it is made clear that Link is merely stunned, not lovestruck, and that Midna is joking.

Finally, however the ending cut-scene is interpreted (I for one see it as a temporary trip, perhaps to replace the Master Sword yet again, perhaps to actually give the sword to the Princess like he was supposed to at the beginning), it is just that - the ending cut-scene. So it does not effect a summary of the events of the game - it can be mentioned at the end, but if someone has a quality at least until the ending, then they have that quality throughout the game.

If anyone can think of a quote I'm missing, or a statement from the developers, that indicates that Link has a different love interest than Ilia, please share it. Otherwise, I'm really getting tired of the constant removal of that statement.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 22:52, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but that's all speculation. If I want to believe that's all them being close friends, I can, and it's not wrong per canon. Ilia never professes love, they don't kiss, they never so much as hold hands. Or touch, to my recollection.

Why is it necessary for Link to have a love interest? It's not proof that Link The game isn't for romance, unlike, say, FFX--it's for the adventure. If you're so tired of it, doesn't it make more sense to leave it out, rather than keep sticking it in there, when so many will challenge it?

It's removed for a good reason; it's fan speculation and theory, nothing more. And which manual are you reading? The only things that should be considered "proof" or "evidence" is something in the game or packaged in the game--it's never a first time that a manual gets something wrong, or invents something. It's notable, but shouldn't be concrete evidence. And, I'm pretty sure "mayor" is an electoral thing, not something that you inherit. I think it would be prudent to elect Hyrule's Hero as Mayor--but we have no proof either way whether it's an elected position or not, so again, not proof.

I'm not exactly sure what you're referencing about the end...our last shot of Link is him riding through through Faron Woods...which way is he headed? I seriously am not sure...but if it IS towards Hyrule Field, then I see irony in that you're willing to interpret a non-canon source as Link marrying Ilia, but just disregarding where Link heads. It's not like that's proof either, but it shouldn't just be tossed aside because it conflicts with Ilia/Link.

Basically, it's worth mentioning that there could be some romantic inclinations there (and I believe that Nintendo intended for us to interpret either way), but it's not canon, and it's speculation. The same can be said of Midna and Link. So, yes, I'm going to edit it back. 74.70.3.240 (talk) 03:33, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

The prologue according to the official site, copied from the official Japanese site, and I think present in the manual, claims

"'Don't do anything silly. And come home safely,' Ilia says, revealing her true affection for Link."

It's removed for a good reason; it's fan speculation and theory, nothing more.

No, according to the edits, its usually changed because they think Midna deserves the title.

The mayor bit is from the official site as well, I believe, and about him before the game even starts. It's a small village, so no, history shows it's inherited. I'm not saying Link marries Ilia, but the last shot still doesn't matter - big deal, he leaves the village. He was supposed to at the beginning anyway.

Midna taunts Link with Ilia, everyone comments that she's so incredibly important to him, she's the one he chases after the most. [3] shows his reaction to finally seeing her again. [4] shows her shedding a tear when she remembers him, and can you honestly not see that as a romantic scene? The other children even pull Talo away so Link and Ilia can be alone together. Ilia says some clearly romantic things, especially taken from the cultural context of subtlety.

I don't see how Midna could possibly be a love interest, but fine.

If I add the quote from the site as a ref, will it satisfy your request for proper proof? I know most of it is observational, but this bit outright says he is her love interest, so it should be okay.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 04:28, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

The material from the official site in objectionable--or, at least, a lot of people pick and choose what's "proof" from it. Like it says Sheik is female:

The youth known as Sheik appeared in Hyrule after Link returned to the Temple of Time as an adult. Sheik always covered her face and muffled her voice to protect her identity, but Link soon learned that this helpful soul was in fact his good friend Princess Zelda. Her unusual dress and demeanor came from being raised as a Sheikah by her protector Impa.

...but most people choose to ignore that.

I don't support Midna and Link--I personally like that a relationship can be friendship, as close as possible without being romantic. But it's not like there's nothing to interpret there. Just like Ilia. Ah well. I'm content to leave it at "possible love interest", because that what it is. There has to be something more concrete than interpretations--it's only canon if not a soul can (reasonably) object to it. 163.153.64.48 (talk) 18:19, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

It's all speculation and opinion. It shouldn't be in the article because it's not specifically stated in the game. Ultimahero (talk) 10:27, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Not the "Great Hyrule Encyclopedia". The actual official site for tp, translated directly from the Japanese official site.

And this isn't a Zelda fansite - we don't get to throw out material based on our own opinions of its "canonicity". If it's published by a reliable source, it goes up.

It's directly claimed on the site, Midna uses it to taunt him at several points, and the Beth even does the "pull the kids away so that the lovers can get privacy" scene. I can see how this could be considered OR if there was no written proof, but the site outright says it, and that interpretation goes hand in hand with the events of the game.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 14:26, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

First of all, like I said above, I've seen that you don't believe Sheik is necessarily female. Yet, on the official site, it says she is. So where's the discretion?

The game is the only thing that should be considered canon. It's silly to think that sources--even Miyamoto has--don't get things wrongs. Even so, the section on the website indicates--and it's elusive, regardless--that Ilia has feelings for Link, not the other way around. I don't see why you can't leave it as a maybe, because it's a maybe. You can't say it's canon if it never happens in-game. Saibh (talk) 18:25, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't believe it because numerous other comments from the game and associated material directly contradict it, and the Great Hyrule encyclopedia is rife with mispellings and errors. That is a case of taking the more reliable source. Wikipedia should only consider "canonicity" if the canon contradicts the desired claim. It doesn't, ergo in this case Canon doesn't mean squat.

However, the Ilia thing IS NOT the same case. It's NOT on the Great Hyrule Encyclopedia, it's on the official TWILIGHT PRINCESS website and directly translated from the Japanese (I've checked this with the original Japanese site).

If the game strongly indicated or claimed that Ilia and Link didn't have feelings for each other, you'd have a valid complaint. But not only is it claimed on a summary for a site directly written for the game, by the game's designers (not just Nintendo in general like the Hyrule-pedia), but the game actually employs numerous romantic cliches.

I'm not saying it's canon from the game (even though it goes as far as it can without upping the rating or outright saying it) - I'm saying it's Nintendo's official stance on the matter. That's what wikipedia is supposed to report.

I'll qualify it by saying "Nintendo claims", but as worded it misrepresents the reffed source in order to submit to popular vote, not guidelined-consensus. I'll try to add more refs, too, but I can't understand why we should keep getting into arguments about canon if it doesn't actually contradict it.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 19:58, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Still, you are picking and choosing what to see and what not to see. Official is official, apparently, and since the official Zelda site says Sheik is female, that must mean Sheik is female, right? And how do you know who designed the website, anyhow?

:Listen, I am debating on it being factual. I'm getting on my last nerve because you're getting on your last nerve, but, oh my God, it is not canon. Putting a "possibly" in there makes it so that you are not indicating that it is canon. Actually, I reread your change, and I'll just leave it there.

Finally, like I said before, "true affections" is an ambiguous statement. It could mean she liked him better than we thought. It could be love. If it doesn't explicitly show it, then it's not canon. Hints are not enough. Interpretations are not enough. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia--what respectable encyclopedia assumes anything?

Huff! You're opposing it just as much as I am, so don't claim that I'm throwing a tantrum. Saibh (talk) 00:18, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Talking to UltimaHero, who removed the entire thing, source and all.

I am not "picking and choosing", because there's no contradiction. As I've explained numerous times, I'm using the quote straight from the official Twilight Princess site, not the Hyrule 'pedia (which hasn't been uploaded since OoX), which is also a direct translation of the official Japanese site, which has information in turn confirmed from the source material, like "Shadow Beast", "Celebrity Clerk", "Sword of Gobela/Death Sword", etc. If this quote, straight from Ninteno of both Japan and America, conflicted with the game, we would take the game as the authoritative source. There is no contradiction, ergo, no problem.

On the other hand, the Sheik problem has the game call Sheik a male by Ruto. That's it, canon-wise. Then we have the Hyrule Pedia (made only by Nintendo of America, and not maintained in several years), Super Smash Bros. (not even really gone over by the American or Japanese Zelda teams), and the official manga (with artistic license). These do not agree.

However, since the game's wording allows for Ruto to be right, or mistaken, we present it as such, and add that other references to the character have disputing opinions on the gender.

We report all those, and we're fine. That's what wikipedia does. On the other hand, if such a dispute did not exist between sources, we don't really need to phrase it like it does. We can do it anyway, but it's overkill, especially as obvious as the game makes the Ilia thing.

For the last bit - you're drawing at straws. You can't honestly look at the relevant scenes, and how the site describes the scene, and think they're talking about mere friendship (for one, the site establishes her as a close friend before the "revelation of true affections").Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 01:56, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Ah, ;ljas;fj, it's not that big of a deal, just make it pleasingly ambiguous--which you have--and that's all I asked. 74.70.3.240 (talk) 02:13, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Anything taken out of the game is not specific enough and can be interpreted in different ways. As for the web site, can you please tell us where it's at? I look at the profile of Ilia and didn't see that, so I'm curious where it's at. And besides, the site is not created by Miyamot oor his team, so it's not offical. Ultimahero (talk) 20:14, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

...it's in the ref. You click on the "Story" button, and the site is a direct translation of this site, which is actually the best source of info we have on the game besides the game itself - it proved a lot of the "Killi, Hanna, Meshi" and "Twilit Assassin" stuff wrong.

If you could show where there's actual contradictions anywhere on the site, I'd concede the point. But so far, it just looks like throwing a fit about wanting to pick and choose which comments of Nintendo's you want to accept.

..and yeah, it's pretty damn official. It's even in the source code.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 23:20, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

No, I'm not throwing a fit. I'm simply trying to make the point that all of what's said can be interpreted in different ways. You may be right, but you still have to interpret what's said. And I didn't see anyting about her being called a "love interest". So, I'm simply asking you to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that your interpretation is accurate. Ultimahero (talk) 04:21, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

1. The site says Ilia has feelings for Link beyond that of a close childhood friend.
2. Ilia says to Link that he was always there beside her, and that she will always wait for him.
3. Midna taunting Link with Ilia's image, Ilia appearing as Link's companion in the Lanayru vision, and the cliche scene when Ilia get's her memories back, and Beth drags Talo away from the window.
4. Various characters speaking of Ilia, and only ever Ilia, being important to Link.

Are you honestly telling me that you can interpret the line from the site as meaning anything other than love interest? The meaning of the phrase used is pretty obvious, and it agrees with most of what was said in the game, and during pre-release info when everybody called her Link's girlfriend.

If you honestly think that summarizing "showing true affection", after already defining the character as a close childhood friend, as claiming a "love interest" at least from Ilia's side is unreasonable OR, then we might as well just stick to explicit quotes for everything, and have no summarization at all. It's excrutiatingly clear what they meant by that, and this is honestly starting to feel like searching for any way to deny Ilia and Link being love interests.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 05:03, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

As far as the quote from the site, I still haven't seen it. You said to look in the "story" link. I diidn't see one. There was a "Prolouge" link, so I assume that's what you meant, with the affection quote. It doesn't say that her feeling are stronger than friendship, but "revealing her true affection". The problem is that affection can mean different things. You're right in that it can be romantic love, but it can also be used to show just how deep thier friendship goes. As for everything in-game, that can be seen as merely friendship. And I'm not trying to stop them from being paired together. If people put this in about Midna, I'd have a problem with that, too, because it's all personal interpretation. I'm asking why it can't be taken as friendship. Ultimahero (talk) 05:14, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Right, it is in the prologue section.

af·fec·tion1 Audio Help /əˈfɛkʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-fek-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun 1. fond attachment, devotion, or love: the affection of a parent for an only child.

It is explained just before the section about "true affection" that they were already childhood friends. As it is worded the "true affection" bit claims something more is there - and with affection's usual definition, and not having much else more to go to, it's clear that she views him as a love interest.

And no, at the very least, the "Ilia gets her memory back" scene cannot be seen as mere friendship. The other children are Link's friends as well, even according to the game script, yet Beth, the one most concerned with romantics already, pulls the other children away from the window so that Link and Ilia can be alone. It's an obvious trope that is only used for romantic scenes.

If you want, I will define the next bit as (barely) interpretation. But they're still pretty obvious.

Though it is commonly said in the game that Link is good friends with everyone in the village, Ilia is always singled out as the one most important to him - by the other villagers, by Midna, and by Telma. Also, she is singled out as the one he is worrying about - the other children, the village, and Hyrule itself are secondary until he returns Ilia's memory.

The quotes below are nearly dripping with romanticism:

• Ilia: "You were always there... You were always beside me"
• Ilia: "You don't need to worry about me any longer. Whenever you return... I'll be waiting for you."

I defy you to find a mere friendship where they say and do things like that.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 17:07, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

I would agree that Link appears to have a greater affection for her thatn any of the other villagers. But, this can still be interpreted to mean that they are best friends. Sure, Link is friends with the other kids, but they're all considerably younger than him, while the other towns folk are all older. Ilia is the only one his age, so she's probably the one he can relate to the most.

The scene where Beth pulls the other kids away can be friendship. Link had already seen the other kids and reconnected to them. But if he and Ilia are best friends, then it's probably well known around the village the that's the case, so Beth could simply be giving two best friends a chance to connect again. And, on top of that, it was Link who went to all the trouble of trying to get Ilia her memories back. So for someone to go through all that, I would think that Ilia would want a chance to thank him. That doesn't neccesarily imply romantic love.

And again, you're right that affection can mean romantic love, but that's not alawys the case. A pet can show affection. That doesn't mean it's interested in it's owner romantically.

So, I know that you think it's pretty clear. But that is you're interpretation of things. You see it one way, I see it another, someone else sees it different than either of us do. It's not proper to insert one interpretation into the text when Wikipedia is facts only. If you can prove that you're right, like some line where they are shown to 'be in love', or some indisputable fact, then that's fine. Otherwise, it simply doesn't belong. Ultimahero (talk) 18:05, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

....really? If it was merely saying "affection", maybe. But it had already established that they were childhood, best friends. Basically, you're asking that them wording it as a revelation is actually just repeating what they said a sentence or two ago - it's worded like something Link didn't already know too well. The Beth scene - no. Cinematically and realistically, it cannot be interpreted as simple friendship. Ilia thanks him when there's other people in the room at other times, so it's not just that either. They are given privacy, and Ilia starts talking about how Link was always there for her, and she'll be waiting for him. It's nothing like a pet showing affection, and you are seriously stretching the meaning of the word to it's least meaningful to make that interpretation.

I've provided several such lines - where it is said that Ilia is the most important to Link, where it says he was always "there for her", where it says "she will wait for him". Those kind of things are not said by mere friends. Hell, it's stuff most boyfriends and girlfriends don't say to each other until they are pretty committed.

Fine, I reworded it to be completely, totally explicitly what is said. It seems to me to go against the whole point of wikipedia (reporting and summarizing what has been reported, as opposed to just being a quote reservoir), but at the least, there is really no possible way to argue against it, and it provides relevant information.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 22:22, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, sir. That seems fair. Ultimahero (talk) 02:54, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

As to ur last argument....thats wat my mother would say to me my girlfriend however says "NO!" when i do that. Ilia didnt fight it at all and the "official website" wasnt made by Nintendo. Now lets look at the game has Ilia so much as touched Link? No? i thought so yet Midna has touched him all the time like the part where she reveals shes a twili she was touching his cheek and ect if my friend did that to me id be going wtf. As for Talo being dragged off notice that Gor Goron and Renado were still in there......however were both sorta right. it has been revealed by Nintendo that this whole Love-thing is a easter egg for fans. and the yahve revealed that both Ilia AND Midna love Link heres a interview.

The official website for TP is made by Nintendo. Only someone in denial would claim otherwise. Ilia touches Link nearly every time they meet, and you can't claim that Midna riding on Link in wolf form is "romantic touching". The interview is fake (unless you can provide an official source for it, which you have yet to do), so stop posting it.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 03:47, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Interviewer:Im confused on the game The Legend of Zelda:Twilight Princess, i thought Link was supposed to love Zelda but im hearing different storys about Ilia and Midna can you explain?

Miyamoto:Ahh yes in this game we decided it would not be Zelda who Link is smiten with as it is obvious in nearly each game that he has fallen for her, of course there were a few she wasn’t in. no we decided to make it a little more difficult to figure out because this is half the fun of the games.

Interview:I see so its not Zelda......well who is it then? Midna or Ilia?

Miyamoto:As to that its kind of both.

Interviewer:Both?

Miyamoto:This may be confusing but notice how Links village is small and they need to populate to keep it ruuning. Well as you probably know Links is predicted to become mayor the only female his age is Ilia and shes the mayors daughter........well who do you think Link planned to have kids with? Everyone expected it including Link himself. then he met Midna of course he didnt like her off the bat quite the oppposite he didnt like being with her much toward the begining. By the time they were travelling to get the last fused shadow Link thought of her as a friend nothing more. Now here comes Zant he offers Midna a choice however she refuses and she cares for Link while hes hurt and when she is hurt by the light spirit Link saves her. Her additude toward Link changes dramaticly around the time they were in the temple of time is when Link fell in love. However remember that both Ilia and Midna loved Link

Interviewer:Hmmmm what about Lanayrus story? He thought alot about Ilia then.

Miyamoto:You must remember that he still expected himself to be wed with her and she was his best friend never-less so of course he thought of her.

Interviewer:Do you plan on bringing Midna back?

Miyamoto:The original plan was to make this the only game of this type i may have continued if the GameCube had stayed longer. However there are many people begging to see Midna come back and this is the only way so i may do it after all.

This keeps on getting erased just like ur quote hmmmm i wonder who does it -.-

Darkest-Link33 (talk) 03:02, 23 May 2008 (UTC)Erik

"I think we can all agree that Ilia is Link's love interest from the start of the game to at least the City in the Sky." That sounds about right i understand that Midna did show alot of feelings toward Link after the attack form Zant and touched him in err inappropiate ways but i think if he may have loved her around the twilight level and beyond dont bite this guys ass ok? Thetriforcehero (talk) 22:24, 23 May 2008 (UTC)Austin

Nintendo Interview Involving TPs "Links love-life"

I am currently showing a interview under the Midna section where Miyamoto reveals to many wondering fans "Who does Link love?"

Darkest-Link33 (talk) 00:22, 23 May 2008 (UTC)Erik

Buddy, the interview is a forgery, as far as I can tell. There is no record of it on the internet, it doesn't appear in any Nintendo Power's that I can see, and half of the claims it makes are outright wrong (like Link being smitten with Zelda in every game - she's not even in all of them!). You need to have a source for such claims, and they need to be sourced properly, not just plopped in the text where they disrupt everything.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 02:29, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Miyamoto:Ahh yes in this game we decided it would not be Zelda who Link is smitten with as it is obvious in nearly each game that he has fallen for her, of course there were a few she wasn’t in. ya thats part of it well i notice he says shes not so dont say that i DID say she was in every game and this was very recent acctually only 2 months ago. Your a mule who is stubborn and wont even read half of the opposing arguments. And everything u say is BS Ilia really acts more like a mother than a girlfriend

Yaaaaa i think Link belongs with Ilia too but that isnt a forgery its real theres another Interview you should have added thought its where Miyamoto admits that there really is no love life of links its all up to fans that Interview was jsut his opinionThetriforcehero (talk) 03:24, 23 May 2008 (UTC)austin

Seriously, it's not anywhere on the internet, and not in any of my Nintendo Power's. I can only assume it's a forgery. By the way, the official site (which is written by Nintendo of Japan (which Shigeru RUNS), then translated by Nintendo of America) claims that Ilia has feelings for Link.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 03:45, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

NV=NintendoView and ty for telling me ill check69.104.53.155 (talk) 02:01, 24 May 2008 (UTC)Austin

You're going to have to provide a link. The only site called "NintendoView" that I can find is a blank website with only adds on it.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 02:23, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Its on the NV site. No not the freewebs version. And you have your facts wrong the offical site wasnt made by Nintendo. Hmmmm were does it say it say that Ilia has feelings for Link? NO I BELIVE U I THINK SHE DOES TOO DONT GET THE WRONG IDEA! Cause it doesnt say that in characters 22:20, 23 May 2008 (UTC)Austin

OH ya and one more thing stop being asses u guys seriously darkest,kryten listen to each toehrs arguments and dont be so effing vicious over a game. Also though i belive Ilia belongs with Link i listen to both sides of the story....true Midna touches him in ways Ilia doesnt and true i havnt seen them touch but that doesnt nessesary porve ANYTHING not even that interview is proof....yes i know its real so dont flip out ok? ive seen it too but nothing will prove it lets jsut stick to our beliefs and stop trying to convert ppl 22:28, 23 May 2008 (UTC)Austin

1) What's NV, and why would the interview be there, and not mentioned on any Zelda fansite or official publication? 2) Read the section. It's in the prologue part of the website, and IS made by Nintendo. It's trademarked to Nintendo in several places. 3) I'd listen to his argument if it was actually from Miyamoto, and he bothered to verify it at all.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 01:15, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmmmm do u have proof its from nintendo? I mean most official sites arent made by the games creator. Its the offical site therfore they MUST have the Nintendo trademarks to prove its real. I read the prologue its there but.....i dont think it meant they are in love i mean i have affection for my sister mother father and friends this may be reffering to how she was acting previously toward Link. If they really thought they belonged together i think it would also be in character section. Anyway fact is i guess i dont have proof it ISNT from Nintendo its just rly unlickley the prologue is different than the one on the manual and Midna talks and sounds different and like i said its rare for them to make their own site ussually they choose one. Closet think i found To the Link/Midna/Ilia thing is a zeldapedia site as a reference to both Ilia and Midna 69.106.181.220 (talk) 02:36, 24 May 2008 (UTC)Austin

...what? No. It's the official fansite, written and licensed by Nintendo of America, translated from the website written by Nintendo of Japan. They never "just pick fansites" - they're sites written and programmed by Nintendo's Advertising department, and exist to sell the game.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 04:33, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Fan Sites/Wikias are not considered reliable sources. Please cite your additions using official or reliable sources with citation templates. Unverified material can be challenged and removed under Wikipedia's attribution policy.--03:15, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Alright im going to dive into this fray. They never "just pick fansites" Well actully most of the time that IS wat they do. But its ok i know for a fact this was made by Nintendo its on both the NV site they reffered too and some NPs. Hmmmm if they did think Ilia and Link were in love it probably would be in the character section. If you read the prologue it says she shows her true affection. Now think wat had happened earlier she was yeliing her head off at Link cause of his horse, It says show her true affection I think they mean that she really DOES care about him. Last thing i find it biased to say Ilia acts like his mother. She acts more like a little sister "Just come home safely" sounds like a worried sister although admitingly it COULD be love. "You were always there you always looked out for me" sounds like a lil sister speaking to her big brother. Now lets thing about this Links 17 Ilia is 16 they have known each other for 16 years it makes perfect sense for Ilia to be like a younger sibling. Now as to whether i believe Ilia or Midna should have Link well both have their facts and faults. Midna does make fun of Link and Ilia. Ilia hasnt touched Link at all when Midna has in ways i wouldnt allow a friend to do let alone a friend ive only known for a week. Link shows concern that could be love for both. Ilia crys when her memory returns (it could be brother sister happiness). Midna crys when she broke the mirror (Maybe they did become great friends in that week together). The I... could have just been a English fault. The I... could have been another clue as its rumoured. It could be any one of them it could be.......TELMA! jk. 67.117.26.171 (talk) 14:07, 24 May 2008 (UTC)Kyle

"Alright im going to dive into this fray. They never "just pick fansites" Well actully most of the time that IS wat they do."

They have never picked a Zelda fansite to be a game's official site, and you need to back something like this up.

"Hmmmm if they did think Ilia and Link were in love it probably would be in the character section."

Probably not, since it's story information, and could be considered a spoiler. The character section is all stuff to introduce the characters.

"If you read the prologue it says she shows her true affection. Now think wat had happened earlier she was yeliing her head off at Link cause of his horse, It says show her true affection I think they mean that she really DOES care about him."

It says that after calling him his childhood friend. Therefore, it would be redundant for it to have the meaning you suggest.

"Ilia hasnt touched Link at all when Midna has in ways i wouldnt allow a friend to do let alone a friend ive only known for a week."

1) Yes, Ilia has, especially in the romantic scene where she regains her memory. 2) Do you ever see Link enjoy these touches? Or do you see her doing it to annoy him, like she does at the beginning of the game? They don't start off as friends, they start off as forced allies, and they stay like that until Midna shows compassion for Hyrule.

I'm not demanding that the article says Ilia is Link's love interest - as obvious as I personally believe it is, I understand verifiability. All I'm asking is that instead of putting personal opinions into the article, you put information sourced to reliable sources. If you want to use an interview, you need to prove that it's a real interview with Miyamoto.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 05:30, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

• Cough* ahem err most of ur counterarguments WERE opinions i need to go right now so i only have time to say maybe 3 things. 1)I will rewatch the Ilia scene to be sure. 2)I highly doubt that Minda touched Links cheek in the gerudo desert to annoy him she seemed alot more serious at that point of the game (this was when she was revealing her ancestors and when she asks again for him to accompany her to the mirror. 3)It states in the prologue Ilia is his childhood friend.....almost like their expecting u to read this first.67.117.26.179 (talk) 13:25, 25 May 2008 (UTC)Kyle

...okay, seriously, stop being such a dumbass. Do you see me putting my personal opinions into the article? No, you see me only putting in a quote directly sourced to the official website. 2) I highly doubt she was doing it to flirt, either, since she was AN IMP. 3) ....yeah. Which is why it means that the "true affection" bit is almost certainly not just saying they're friends. And finally 4) Either provide an effing source for the interview which verifies it as legit, or go away.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 19:06, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

UHHHH i dont wanna get in this so ya im going to say one thing and im leaving dont bother responding cause i wont respond back. Ok severall of the poeple against you said Nintendosview as the source i mean its a well known site and has every interview for every Nintendo game. Lastly ya u wont take "Ilia isnt it" for a answer u seem completly determind to make it so Ilia is the one Link wants even though so far everyone who has been on this disagrees with you and has given you a source witch you keep asking for yet you ignore.68.127.50.241 (talk) 19:24, 25 May 2008 (UTC)Nicole

Ok i wasnt going to get into this but ur being a asshole u havnt borught any fact at all u have given sites and quotes but these quotes dont support ur theroy. You say This is wat this quote means and ect thats really nothing more than a opinion however they have facts straight from Nintendo to support their theroy.

Look at the damn article. The ONE THING I have inserted on this topic is a line straight from the official website. YOU (I don't believe your BS that all these similar IP's are really just tons of anonymous people who happen to have your exact views) have not provided any links backing your claims up. In order to add information to an article, especially if it is contested, it MUST be sourced. That is ALL I am asking - give a link to an article which verifies your claims as official fact, and I'll post that Midna has had babies with Link. That's all I'm asking here.

As for the article, which you keep reverting -

1. The first edit ("he dreams of") is used on the official site. However, since he seems to change these goals throughout the game, it's not a very safe claim to make. However, it can stand, since it can be sourced.
2. The second edit (he is the main character in all Zelda games) is wrong, because this is not the same Link as in all Zelda games. This is the Link in only one game, and even further than that, all of his information as a recurring series character is supposed to be presented on his main article, not here. This page is for the character's specific to this game.
3. Your third edit has NO SOURCES, and as it is contested, SHOULD NOT BE INSERTED WITHOUT THEM.
4. Your fourth edit (in the references section) is incredibly bad formatting, and not how the references sections work.

Except for the first (which is a minor content dispute, since that wording is used on the site), all of these edits are against guidelines, and you're willful reinsertion amounts to vandalism. If you continue, you will almost certainly be banned. All you need to do is to provide a link which verifies the interview as factual, and you can have your "Link x Midna".Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 04:36, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

For the love of god severall of us have told you the site over and over and over but im not going to keep on repeating it to you, you will jsut ignore it. You havnt given a reliable source either. YES I SAW THE LINE but it doesnt mean they r in love thats just your opinion if they are in love. No it would not be a spoiler to put "Ilia loves Link" in character section as everyone would read the prologue first.

Spoiler EX:Midna is actully the twilight princess69.106.221.103 (talk) 13:44, 26 May 2008 (UTC)Kyle

NEW UPDATE:Ok guys i cant believe u have nothing better to do then stand and wait at the Wikipedia articles and wait for somone to change them so u can change them back. I have added a new update to both Midna and Ilia articles both the same and both at the bottom and nobody can deny they are true, Katrieh however insists this war goes on and has been upset at these changes.Darkest-Link33 (talk) 15:02, 26 May 2008 (UTC)Erik

Please read Wikipedia:Reliable sources: users of Wikipedia cannot add any controversial content to an article without backing it up with a reliable source such as a book reference or a link to a reliable website. Kariteh (talk) 15:11, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Not everything needs proof u piece of BS. Dude you know its true that many zelda fans think Midna and Link love each other and u know that man think Ilia and Link love each other. You apparently just enjoy being a bitch on the internetDarkest-Link33 (talk) 15:21, 26 May 2008 (UTC)Erik

I'm sorry but it's not a question of "proof". This is not a matter of people believing you or not believing you, it's just that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and thus has policies and guidelines, one of them being that contents must be attributed to reliable sources. If you refuse to make your edits comply with these guidelines, please refrain from editing at all. Kariteh (talk) 15:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Also please avoid using multiple accounts and IP addresses, as per Wikipedia:Sockpuppets. Kariteh (talk) 15:30, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Want a source? go to youtube and it has loads of LinkxMidna tributes and LinkxIlia tributes i dont need a offical site as what im saying counts on the opinions of others and this is wat shows it stop trying to make people argue over this crap its annoying as hell.Darkest-Link33 (talk) 15:54, 26 May 2008 (UTC)Erik

Editing

Lets face it alot of biased editing is coming all around. Do not Undo something unless its the following.

1)Has no evidence

2)Has evidence that doesnt support them

3)Claims something as a FACT and uses a unreliable site

4)Claims something as a OPINION and uses a unreliable site

5)States point blank that Midna/Ilia and Link are in love lets face it Nintendo isnt going to go up point blank and say it

6)Forgery

7)They made the supporting site themselves

8)They deleted something that didnt have anything on the above

9)writen things that have nothing to do with the topic.

Ok for those who dont completly understand what is a reliable site allow me to explain.

If you are trying to prove something you must first find a official site then find the quote that suppots your theroy NOTE:your quote must not be in confusion. It must Clearly say what you say is true. You cant say "well i THINK this means this" or something like that.

If your going for OPINION you must clearly state it. Chances are your going for others opinions like fans. Therfore a official site isnt the way to go for this as a official site cant speak for all fans. You must find a site where the fans themselves leave their opinions. Ex: IliaxLink site. the important thing is that the fans clearly state thats their opinion so it doesnt have to be a fan site as long as some fans say that is their opinion. Remember this is opinion you cant say that your opinion is true unless you prove fact.

one last reminder DO NOT UNDO ANYTHING UNLESS IT FALLS INTO THOSE CATAGORYS —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thetriforcehero (talk • contribs) 00:57, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but fansites are not acceptable sources, because they are 1) Original resource, and 2) Do not by any means represent the entire community. Whether or not there are Ilia x Link site's, that is not encyclopedic content. It needs to be released from the official source, or covered in a reputable source such as IGN News or the New York Times. This isn't an issue of biased editing - this is simply an issue of one side completely refusing to adhere to the WP:V guidelines which are not optional on this wiki.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 01:17, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

• unencyclopedic content, unacceptable sources. to add "fans think", you need to produce professional polling, or else I could add "fans think Midna is a cockchugger", and source it to a random blog. You have a point but its either this or do u wish to continue with the fat MidnaxLink or IliaxLink argument?

as for your last comment you have a point however notice that it doesnt say all it says many and its true too many fans DO think Midna is a cockhugger and many fans DO think Ilia is a annoyance i dont belive in either one of those but some zelda fans do. This is on both Midna and Ilia pages I find it fair and its really not doing any harm its preventing all these edits. Thats the main reason why i want it to stay. Feel free to open up any concerns you have about it thoughThetriforcehero (talk) 02:09, 29 May 2008 (UTC)Austin

Also can u give me a link on the wiki rules where you cant use fan statements and ectThetriforcehero (talk) 02:14, 29 May 2008 (UTC)Austin

First off, don't revert other editor's changes unless you are familiar with the guidelines. They are plainly in opposition to that passage.

WP:V

"Articles should rely on reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy."

"Sources should directly support the information as it is presented in an article and should be appropriate to the claims made: exceptional claims require exceptionally high-quality reliable sources."

"Tiny-minority views and fringe theories need not be included, except in articles devoted to them."

"In general, the most reliable sources are peer-reviewed journals and books published in university presses; university-level textbooks; magazines, journals, and books published by respected publishing houses; and mainstream newspapers. As a rule of thumb, the greater the degree of scrutiny involved in checking facts, analyzing legal issues, and scrutinizing the evidence and arguments of a particular work, the more reliable it is."

"Questionable sources are those with a poor reputation for fact-checking. Such sources include websites and publications that express views that are widely acknowledged as extremist, are promotional in nature, or rely heavily on rumors and personal opinions."

"Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published books, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, blogs, forum postings, and similar sources are largely not acceptable."

"Claims of consensus must be sourced. The claim that all or most scientists, scholars, or ministers hold a certain view requires a reliable source. Without it, opinions should be identified as those of particular, named sources."

"Any site that misleads the reader by use of factually inaccurate material or unverifiable research. See Reliable sources for explanations of the terms "factually inaccurate material" or "unverifiable research"."

"Linking to YouTube, Google Video, and similar sites: There is no blanket ban on linking to these sites as long as the links abide by the guidelines on this page (which would happen infrequently). See also Wikipedia:Copyrights for the prohibition on linking to pages that violate copyrights. Therefore, each instance of allowance is on a case-by-case basis."

WP:NOR

"Any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged must be supported by a reliable source. "Original research" is material for which no reliable source can be found. The only way you can show that your edit is not original research is to produce a reliable published source that contains that material. Even with well-sourced material, however, if you use it out of context or to advance a position not directly and explicitly supported by the source you are also engaged in original research; see below."

"In general the most reliable sources are peer-reviewed journals and books published in university presses; university-level textbooks; magazines, journals, and books published by respected publishing houses; and mainstream newspapers. As a rule of thumb, the more people engaged in checking facts, analyzing legal issues, and scrutinizing the writing, the more reliable the publication. Material that is self-published, whether on paper or online, is generally not regarded as reliable, but see this section of Verifiability for exceptions."

WP:WEASEL

"With weasel words, one can imply a statement is true when it may be no truer than its inverse. For example, an editor might preface the statement "Montreal is the best city in the world" with a disclaimer: "some people say that Montreal is the best city in the world". This is true: some people do say that Montreal is the best city in the world. The problem is that the reverse is true as well (some people say Montreal is not the best city in the world, and some go further and say that it is the worst), and it is thus easy to write a misinformative, slanted article composed of nothing but 'facts' like these, using Wikipedia to spread hearsay, personal opinion and propaganda. All it takes is for somebody to add "Critics have asserted that..." to a statement, and there is a danger that the casual reader will take their word for it."

"The Many people think... type of statement is often a thinly-veiled bandwagon fallacy. It wasn't put there to establish the context of the following statement (and naturally enough, it doesn't do that in the least bit). Rather, it serves to inspire awe and lead the reader's train of thought along the lines of, "oh, many people say this, obviously this must have a semblance of credibility to it"."

Second off - all the information on this page is derived from the official material, or reputable, reliable sources. If you want to add something like "Many fans think", you need to

1. Explain why this is relevant to explaining the character's in the context of them being characters of the game,
2. Specify EXACTLY how many fans think this, and what percentage of the fanbase this is,
3. Cite this to a professional, reliable source, and
4. Do exactly the same for ALL differing opinions.

This is all the most basic policies, which I shouldn't even be have to explaining to you. Add to that that the section was CLEARLY put in there to advance someone's personal fan-gasm, and that it was originally a completely dishonest forgery, and I'm not quite sure why I'm even having to reply to this kind of thing - you should understand quite damn well why this simply doesn't belong on wikipedia. Would you expect to see such a passage in the Encyclopedia Britannica, or Encarta?Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 02:30, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Too much writing ahh lol, i only read around the topish area about it having to be a reliable source....well ya for fans opinions Youtube is reliable. forgive my laziness do me a favot though to make it easy type the part that you want me for SURE to read in italic....sry im being rude and not buying it off the bat i jsut find it fishy that this guy also put the same thing on the Ilia charcter (different vid) and ur not deleting that along with the Midna part. Though i think we should encourage IliaxLink i think it might actully to be best to take out all hints of loveThetriforcehero (talk) 04:18, 29 May 2008 (UTC)Austin

Every part of those is important for you to read. It is not my job to walk you through the basic policies (which you are supposed to know, before editing at all), especially if you are going to be so lazy and ignorant as to continuously revert against ridiculously clear consensus. Read the whole damn thing, or shut up and go away. And no, I didn't leave any youtube sources for the Ilia character, what the hell are you babbling about? The only thing not straight from the game there is straight from the official site. Hell, the guidelines explicitly say that if an addition turns out to be controversial, it MUST be discussed on the talk page, and it MUST prove how it doesn't violate the guidelines.

This is not about "encouraging" any fan-ship. This is about verifiable, reliable, and encyclopedic info - the only things in the Ilia section are straight from Nintendo. All we've asked since the beginning is that you prove that the "interview" is not a forgery - all the other editors I've talked can't find hide nor hair of the "interview", nor the alleged source.

This entire thing is getting incredibly tiring, and any person with half a brain wouldn't be trying to "get away with it" in the first place - you want to support shipping so damn bad, go create a fansite. This is not the place for your fan-gasming.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 04:38, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok ok ill read it when i get home its just that i dont have a great vocabulary so i was finding some of it hard to read. To others who read this....you need to stop being so damn viscious i got a email saying you would kill my family if i continued....wowThetriforcehero (talk) 14:28, 29 May 2008 (UTC)Austin

Im sorry but "Linking to YouTube, Google Video, and similar sites: There is no blanket ban on linking to these sites as long as the links abide by the guidelines on this page. what you have stated makes me feel its right more than ever, perhaps he should have added a percentage of fans but how would he ever know? I am 15 and was always bad at vocabulary so some of this i do not understand if u would like to put Italic quotes on the part you think helps your argument do so. Your being very viscious and im getting the idea it was you who emailed me. I understand you want IliaxLink i want it too but we have to be fair. Last thing i never said u put the article of Ilia with the youtube source darkest did, I said i find it fishy that you didnt delete that when it had the same sourceThetriforcehero (talk) 22:43, 29 May 2008 (UTC)Austin

Err wats going on? lol fan fight for Linkx stuff well both sides have facts and made sense so far...Im not choosing sides yet because i dont know if its Midna or Ilia and i dont bother pondering it that much ill jsut watch for now lol and see who makes the better arugments and who makes more senseGoldenWolfy (talk) 23:53, 29 May 2008 (UTC)Tera (My real name is Wolfy =) lol)

As a general comment, I would like to remind everyone that sock puppetry, or attempting to use several accounts by one user, is punishable with a permanent ban. --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  00:00, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Ooooook if you think im somone u know feel free to check my IP and area code and if you think i edited and wrote a differnt IP check history to be sure if i didnt change my IP then there will be nothing thereGoldenWolfy (talk) 00:19, 30 May 2008 (UTC)Love Tera

Hey ty for that ill check now.....i know ur not darkest tera as you wouldnt be speaking.....but theres a few others who area codes id like to check —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thetriforcehero (talk • contribs) 01:01, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I think triforce hero was right when he said you should delete all signs of Midna and Ilia love i read this. 'Often, such fringe theories are promoted in order to push a particular point of view, which violates our rules on neutrality. As the guidelines given at Wikipedia:Fringe theories state, theories outside the mainstream that have not been discussed at all by the mainstream are not sufficiently notable for inclusion in Wikipedia. Wikipedia aims to reflect academic consensus' I read it as i was seeking help to understand wikipedia from what i can tell everything you guys are doing INCLUDING the Youtube Video and INCLUDING the TP official site.....feel free to correct meGoldenWolfy (talk) 02:53, 30 May 2008 (UTC)Love Tera

No. I removed his additions to Ilia as well, so you need to get your head out of your ass about that. There is no ban on linking to youtube as long as such links follow the other guidelines on this page - EXCEPT THEY DO NOT. You are adding a section "to prove a point", and it is written as such. I do not "want" Ilia x Link, or I would be trying to insert the same crap you are, wouldn't I?

Accusing others of harassing behavior (especially threatening e-mails) is a very serious accusation, and is not to be used lightly - and since I can verify that it wasn't me, you'd be wise to stop accusing me of it.

How am I being vicious? I'm telling you to stop your prohibited behavior of vandalizing the page, and simply asking you to provide an acceptable source.

Fine, even though the burden of proof is on you, not me, I'll put the part's important for you to read in italics:

WP:V

"Articles should rely on reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy."

"Sources should directly support the information as it is presented in an article and should be appropriate to the claims made: exceptional claims require exceptionally high-quality reliable sources."

"Tiny-minority views and fringe theories need not be included, except in articles devoted to them."

"In general, the most reliable sources are peer-reviewed journals and books published in university presses; university-level textbooks; magazines, journals, and books published by respected publishing houses; and mainstream newspapers. As a rule of thumb, the greater the degree of scrutiny involved in checking facts, analyzing legal issues, and scrutinizing the evidence and arguments of a particular work, the more reliable it is."

"Questionable sources are those with a poor reputation for fact-checking. Such sources include websites and publications that express views that are widely acknowledged as extremist, are promotional in nature, or rely heavily on rumors and personal opinions."

"Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published books, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, blogs, forum postings, and similar sources are largely not acceptable."

"Claims of consensus must be sourced. The claim that all or most scientists, scholars, or ministers hold a certain view requires a reliable source. Without it, opinions should be identified as those of particular, named sources."

"Any site that misleads the reader by use of factually inaccurate material or unverifiable research. See Reliable sources for explanations of the terms "factually inaccurate material" or "unverifiable research"."

"Linking to YouTube, Google Video, and similar sites: There is no blanket ban on linking to these sites as long as the links abide by the guidelines on this page (which would happen infrequently). See also Wikipedia:Copyrights for the prohibition on linking to pages that violate copyrights. Therefore, each instance of allowance is on a case-by-case basis."

WP:NOR

"Any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged must be supported by a reliable source. "Original research" is material for which no reliable source can be found. The only way you can show that your edit is not original research is to produce a reliable published source that contains that material. Even with well-sourced material, however, if you use it out of context or to advance a position not directly and explicitly supported by the source you are also engaged in original research; see below."

"In general the most reliable sources are peer-reviewed journals and books published in university presses; university-level textbooks; magazines, journals, and books published by respected publishing houses; and mainstream newspapers. As a rule of thumb, the more people engaged in checking facts, analyzing legal issues, and scrutinizing the writing, the more reliable the publication. Material that is self-published, whether on paper or online, is generally not regarded as reliable, but see this section of Verifiability for exceptions."

WP:WEASEL

"With weasel words, one can imply a statement is true when it may be no truer than its inverse. For example, an editor might preface the statement "Montreal is the best city in the world" with a disclaimer: "some people say that Montreal is the best city in the world". This is true: some people do say that Montreal is the best city in the world. The problem is that the reverse is true as well (some people say Montreal is not the best city in the world, and some go further and say that it is the worst), and it is thus easy to write a misinformative, slanted article composed of nothing but 'facts' like these, using Wikipedia to spread hearsay, personal opinion and propaganda. All it takes is for somebody to add "Critics have asserted that..." to a statement, and there is a danger that the casual reader will take their word for it."

"The Many people think... type of statement is often a thinly-veiled bandwagon fallacy. It wasn't put there to establish the context of the following statement (and naturally enough, it doesn't do that in the least bit). Rather, it serves to inspire awe and lead the reader's train of thought along the lines of, "oh, many people say this, obviously this must have a semblance of credibility to it"."

Now, to reiterate: DO NOT RE-ADD THE SECTION TO THE PAGE UNTIL YOU CAN DEMONSTRATE HOW IT PASSES EACH OF THESE GUIDELINES. DOING SO WITHOUT SUCH CONSENSUS WILL BE CONSIDERED VANDALISM, AND YOU WILL BE BLOCKED FROM EDITING.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 04:26, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Ur both vandalizing, it goes against the nurtality rules of wikipedia and ur BOTH using fringe theroy YES U TOO Krytern infact that Youtube is only a 50% chance of it being fringe theroy as he is supporting both sidesGoldenWolfy (talk) 14:27, 30 May 2008 (UTC)Please erase it thank Tera

...seriously, stop sockpuppeting and blatant lying. And no, I'm not vandalizing - I have both consensus and the guidelines behind my edits. Here's the deal: explain how your addition does not violate the given guidelines, or GO AWAY. This is non-negotiable - the addition must pass those guidelines to be included.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 17:28, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Funny how 3 accoutns have ur IP,interesting anyway your breaking the fringe theroy rule so quit trying to take away the integrity of Wikipedia thank youGoldenWolfy (talk) 22:30, 30 May 2008 (UTC)Tera

As a completely uninvolved editor, I'd like to drop in for a moment before things get out of hand. Everyone, please keep in mind that civility, no personal attacks, and assume good faith are also key Wikipedia policies. I see ad hominem attacks coming from both of you here, and I see productive discussion quickly disappearing. This is doing no one any good, so please: discuss article content or the reliability of sources all you want, but don't turn it into a flame war. Pyrospirit (talk · contribs) 22:59, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Your right im sorry, i was upset that he was telling lies and being rather rudeGoldenWolfy (talk) 23:36, 30 May 2008 (UTC)Love Tera

Can someone unlock this article?

Flamewar between one editor and fans. One side is telling the other the rules about Wiki and they're ignoring it with blah blah blah whine whine blah.

This is embarrassing.

Just some general information about what the LoZ thinks of romance in the franchise: Club Nintendo interview, translated, thus there is no 'fresh' original version for you to Google:

   Interviewer: We have received several emails in which our readers ask: Will Zelda and Link ever be involved [romantically]? [laughs] I’m sorry, but we had to ask.
   Eiji Aonuma: [laughs] Good question. Well, as you already know, we are now dealing with a teenage Link, and as you know, teenagers are very emotional beings, so there are definitely possibilities of seeing Link showing his feelings towards the princess. But honestly, we don’t know what the future holds.

   Interviewer Will we see a charming and affectionate romance [between Link and] the princess?
   Eiji Aonuma: Well, we’re creating an adolescent storyline and we try to present it how it should be; in fact, if you played it – or will play it – you’ll notice that the way Link holds the sword is much cooler than how he used to do it. Link will now do things in a way that will make him look more confident and liberated. And yes, it’s true that teenagers have these relationships — and we would love if it could happen with the princess – but I can’t talk about anything yet.  

Interviewer: Does Link have a girlfriend?

   Miyamoto: If it was Princess Zelda, it would be great. However, this time Navi [the fairy] is jealous of Zelda. So within the story, Navi feels something for Link.

These are general knowledge interviews most people have read so I'm not going to source all of them. Especially since none of them are going on the article. These are things you need to keep in mind when debating this fanship edit war that really pleases no one, not even the reader. --HeaveTheClay (talk) 14:47, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Err u DO realize this was way b4 Midna and Ilia were even thought of