Talk:Sun Myung Moon

Korean: B; Hanja: 3

Quotations and simultaneous interpretation

I've moved this quotation to the talk page until the correct translation and Wilson's commentary is added, perhaps a small section talking about mistranslations:

"But when it comes to our age, we must have an automatic theocracy to rule the world. So, we cannot separate the political field from the religious. Democracy was born because people ruled the world, like the Pope does. Then, we come to the conclusion that God has to rule the world, and God loving people have to rule the world -- and that is logical. We have to purge the corrupted politicians, and the sons of God must rule the world. The separation between religion and politics is what Satan likes most."
- Rev. Sun Myung Moon, Third Directors' Conference, Master Speaks, May 17, 1973

Footnote problem, archiving this page

1. In my browser, when you click on a footnote it jumps down to that footnote as it should, but only if it's in the first column. If the footnote is in the second column in the ref section the link goes to the bottom of the page. Can someone report this to the appropriate person?

2. This page is 262 kilobytes long. Can someone who knows how to do it please archive this page?!? -Exucmember (talk) 02:56, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Good Morning Exucmember, In my opinion there are some important and informative discussions on this talk page. It seems to me, unless it is absolutely necessary, the page should not be archived. Respectfully Marknw (talk) 15:20, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

It can't keep growing indefinitely. The last archive was done in January. How long do people feel that a thread should be kept before it is archived? (I've currently set it to a generous 60 days.) As well, there is a utility bot that can build an index of archive pages. AndroidCat (talk) 23:23, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Archiving shouldn't make the past discussions inaccessible. All the archiving I've seen leaves a prominent link in the upper-right of the page so anyone can easily click to see the content. Wikipedia recommends pages be no longer than 32k if possible. So, both Marknw and I are ignorant of some Wikipedia stuff in our own ways - I know that Wikipedia guidelines call for an archiving at this point, but I just don't know how to do it. Marknw, if you think there are certain conversations that have not come to resolution yet, perhaps you should point them out - it might give someone a good guideline for where to break the discussion above and what to archive now. And can we get some help from someone (AndroidCat?) who is more technically adept with this stuff? -Exucmember (talk) 02:21, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

The current archives are listed up the top jumble and are accessible. (I'd move that to the top, but those templates seem to have a built-in order—I'll look at that.) I've added auto-archiving, and if everything goes well, only threads which have been inactive for more than 60 days will be moved to the archive by the bot when it runs.) AndroidCat (talk) 04:52, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Good Morning, Thank you both for considering my request so sincerely. Ex is right, I suffer from a little Wiki ignorance. Please don't let my comment interfere with the normal procedures. I'm sure the discussions will come up again and a serious researcher can just go into the archives. Thank you again. Respectfully Marknw (talk) 14:52, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Introduction

I just reverted an addition to the intro section. However, this section really could be a lot better. For instance I think it is kind of silly to use the Washington Post as a source for Rev. Moon's view of himself and his religious mission. Steve Dufour (talk) 19:25, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

BLP

Please remember that this article is intended to be a biography of a living person. Thanks. I removed a long quote which was only one person's opinions and a list of people which was only sourced by an "anti-cult" website. Both of them don't really belong in a WP BLP. I am sorry that I have been too lax about this kind of thing before. Steve Dufour (talk) 23:50, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

POV

"The Moons' eldest son Hyo Jin Moon had repeated problems with substance abuse, pornography, infidelity, violence and run-ins with the law. When he was 19 Sun Myung Moon had picked a 15-year-old wife for him, Nansook Hong, who bore him 5 children. After years of abuse she left the Moon estate with her children, and in 1998 published a tell-all book, In the Shadow of the Moons: My Life in the Reverend Sun Myung Moon's Family (ISBN 0-316-34816-3). For some Unification Church members, this book was a revealing portrait of the way Sun Myung Moon and his wife had raised their children, and caused a great deal of soul-searching. (See, for example, this review of the book, written by a church member.)"

Uncited and obviously negative. --149.4.211.210 (talk) 00:31, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Well yes. But it could be cited since Ms Hong's book is notable and has been reviewed. As a church member I have been avoiding editing material on Rev. Moon's family since I could not be neutral on the topic. Steve Dufour (talk) 11:44, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

It's not clear to me how 149.4.211.210 can possibly claim that the passage he quotes is "uncited", since the passage he copied here contains the citation within it! Is there any issue here? If no one makes a case I'll remove the POV tag. -Exucmember (talk) 23:18, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

It's not clear to me how Exucmember can

• talk about me as if I was a person under investigation, rather than speak to me as a fellow contributor
• refer to me as a male without me giving any hints of my gender
• say that "it's in this book!" is a proper citation.
• say that a book criticizing a person should be taken as fact, when the person would most likely deny the criticisms. Since I wouldn't want anyone to distract from my point with allegations of false analogy and association fallacy, it would be like saying I can state, as fact, "However, Bertrand Russell's views on quantum physics are not credible, as he never studied anything about quantum physics," if my only source on it was a book clearly critical of Bertrand Russell. By the way, this is where the WP:POV came in.
• say that anecdotal evidence (the second "cite") on a public webspace (Geocities) is a notable and reliable source, even without any way to verify who the reviewer was or even that he or she was/is a member of the church.

But I admit that I should have said "poorly cited" rather than "uncited".

And before you accuse me of being a tool of the Church, I will say that I am a Chinese New Yorker and an atheist, a student of logic, and someone who would rather have extremely negative, cited, and NPOV material on Wikipedia rather than negative, poorly-cited, and POV material. Otherwise, you're just preaching to the choir. And yes, there's no way to prove what I said I am without giving away private information, but can you really say that the above snippet didn't give undue weight? --149.4.211.210 (talk) 00:42, 15 July 2008 (UTC)