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==Article==
Why have you blocked me from working on this article? Do a google search for Brian Sherwin or Brian Sherwin art and you will discover that he has a huge following online. I learned about him while at Art Chicago. If you don't know what Art Chicago is you probably should not be deleting art related articles at random! His art blog is one of the most read art blogs in the blogsphere and he has interviewed some very influential artists. Am I doing something wrong in how I'm posting it? I cited info, mentioned why he is important. Am I missing something? My hope is that people will include more informationa about him. Also, why did the links to his interviews get marked as spam when obviously they are not. I've contributed links before involving www.deviantart.com related articles and never once had a link removed. I just find that odd and I'm starting to jump to conclusions.([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 21:59, 5 May 2008 (UTC))

*See my comment at the bottom of this page. [[User:NawlinWiki|NawlinWiki]] ([[User talk:NawlinWiki|talk]]) 22:03, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


==Notability of [[:Brian Sherwin]]==
[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|left|48px|]]<!-- use [[Image:Nuvola apps important yellow.svg|left|48px|]] for YELLOW flag --> A tag has been placed on [[:Brian Sherwin]] requesting that it be [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|speedily deleted]] from Wikipedia. This has been done because the article appears to be about a real person, organization (band, club, company, ''etc''.), or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the [[WP:CSD#Articles|criteria for speedy deletion]], articles that do not indicate the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please [[Wikipedia:Notability|see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable]]. If this is the first page that you have created, then you should read the [[WP:Your first article|guide to writing your first article]].

If you think that you can assert the notability of the subject, you may contest the deletion by adding <code>{{tl|hangon}}</code> to the top of the page ('''just below''' the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on '''[[Talk:Brian Sherwin|the article's talk page]]''' explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for ''speedy'' deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm the subject's notability under Wikipedia guidelines.

For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria [[Wikipedia:Notability (people)|for biographies]], [[WP:WEB|for web sites]], [[WP:BAND|for bands]], or [[WP:CORP|for companies]]. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this.<!-- Template:Nn-warn --> [[User:PMDrive1061|PMDrive1061]] ([[User talk:PMDrive1061|talk]]) 20:03, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

*Also, please don't add "spam" links to existing articles. Thank you. --[[User:PMDrive1061|PMDrive1061]] ([[User talk:PMDrive1061|talk]]) 20:04, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 21:45, 5 May 2008 (UTC))

I tried to create an article about Brian Sherwin who is the Senior Editor of Myartspace (a networking site that is popular with the mainstream artworld crowd) and the Myartspace Blog. I learned about him while at Art Chicago this year. I tried to create an article about him today but it was deleted within seconds. I went back and included cite links and it was still deleted. I had also added some interview links to the articles about specific artists that Sherwin has interviewed. For example, I placed a link to Sherwin's interview with James Rosenquist on the article about James Rosenquist in the correct area but it has now vanished. There was a note about not placing spam links on articles but the link was not spam!

I'm new so I'm sure I may have messed the article about Sherwin up, but I know how to add links to articles. Why would links to an interview an artist had with him be marked as spam and deleted? I must say that I'm a bit frustrated with the way this has been handled and with the time I've wasted trying to contribute. I have added information in before about www.deviantart.com and never had this trouble. What gives?


==Notability of [[:Brian Sherwin]]==
[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|48px|left]]The article [[:Brian Sherwin]] has been speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This was done because the article seemed to be about a real person, organization (band, club, company, ''etc.''), or web content, but it did not indicate how or why the subject is notable, that is, why an article about that subject should be included in Wikipedia. Under the [[WP:CSD#Articles|criteria for speedy deletion]], articles that do not indicate the notability of the subject may be deleted at any time. If you can indicate why the subject is really notable, you are free to re-create the article, making sure to [[Wikipedia:Citing sources|cite]] any [[Wikipedia:Verifiability|verifiable sources]].

Please [[Wikipedia:Notability|see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable]], and for specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria [[Wikipedia:Notability (people)|for biographies]], [[WP:WEB|for web sites]], [[WP:MUSIC|for musicians]], or [[WP:CORP|for companies]]. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this.<!-- Template:Nn-warn-deletion --> -&nbsp;<font face="Verdana">[[User:Cobaltbluetony|CobaltBlueTony™]]&nbsp;<sub>[[User_talk:Cobaltbluetony|talk]]</sub></font> 20:40, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
----
[[Image:Information.svg|25px]] Please refrain from introducing inappropriate pages{{#if:Brian Sherwin|, such as [[:Brian Sherwin]],}} to Wikipedia. Doing so is not in accordance with our [[Wikipedia:List of policies|policies]]. For more information about creating articles, you may want to read [[Wikipedia:Your first article|Your first article]]. If you would like to experiment, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]]. {{#if:|{{{2}}}|Thank you.}}<!-- Template:uw-create2 --> -&nbsp;<font face="Verdana">[[User:Cobaltbluetony|CobaltBlueTony™]]&nbsp;<sub>[[User_talk:Cobaltbluetony|talk]]</sub></font> 20:50, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

== Welcome ==
Hello '''Roodhouse1''', and [[Wikipedia:Welcome, newcomers|welcome]] to Wikipedia! We're really glad you've chosen to sign up for an account; it offers numerous [[Wikipedia:Why create an account?|benefits]] in case you weren't already aware of them.

Thankyou for [[Special:Contributions/Roodhouse1|your contributions]] if you've been editing before you got this message. If you haven't, don't worry: there are numerous ways you can contribute to Wikipedia if you're not sure where to start yet. Either way, we hope you'll like the place and decide to stay. '''We all remember what it's like to be new, so [[Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers|don't let others scare you off]]'''.
=== Useful links ===

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*[[Image:Nuvola apps filetypes.png|25px]] &nbsp; [[Wikipedia:Where to ask a question]] - Wikipedia has numerous places for you to put your questions and comments forward.

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Of course, there are [[Wikipedia:Contributing to Wikipedia|many ways]] of contributing, but I hope that this message is helpful to you, and that you'll enjoy editing Wikipedia and continue to do so. You can respond to this message by clicking '''<span class="plainlinks">[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:WilliamH&action=edit&section=new here]</span>''' if you have a comment or need help - don't forget to [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|sign your name]] on talk pages using four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>), or you can place <code><nowiki>{{helpme}}</nowiki></code> on your talk page and write your query there. Again, welcome to Wikipedia! [[User:WilliamH|WilliamH]] ([[User talk:WilliamH|talk]]) 20:51, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

== Brian Sherwin ==

The problem is that you've cited no reliable independent sources (see [[WP:V]]) to show that Mr. Sherwin is in fact notable. His own blog is not an independent or reliable source. [[User:NawlinWiki|NawlinWiki]] ([[User talk:NawlinWiki|talk]]) 21:55, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I thought I could make it as I go, instead all of my progress is deleted within seconds of me saving it. If you need more sources I can find them. I do know that he has contributed to Hi Fructose Magazine and has been mentioned on the Juxtapoz site several times. As I tried to tell one admin, google search his name or his name with art and you will see the influence he has. And that still does not explain why the links to his interviews that I posted on articles about those specific artists have been deleted. ([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 22:09, 5 May 2008 (UTC))

*Nope, because so many people try to post articles about themselves, their friends, and other nonnotable people, we require that articles demonstrate the subject's notability when they are posted. Also, the fact that he may have interviewed notable artists doesn't itself make him notable. Again, you're going to need to be able to cite [[WP:RS|reliable independent sources]] in the article for it to stay. [[User:NawlinWiki|NawlinWiki]] ([[User talk:NawlinWiki|talk]]) 22:13, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


http://www.hifructose.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=57

http://www.stuckism.com/interviews.html

http://www.myartspace.com/interviews/
(May have interviewed notable artists? 'May' as in you have a doubt? Why don't you visit Aleksandra Mir's website. You will find his interview with her on her cv. Do look at the artists he has interviewed. It does make him notable. Just as Larry King is notable due to the career he has had interviewing people. Some of the people on that list are considered artworld royalty and you can't contact them unless you have the right connections. Can I continue my work on the article now? ([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 22:41, 5 May 2008 (UTC))

==AfD nomination of Brian Sherwin==
[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|48px|left]]An article that you have been involved in editing, [[Brian Sherwin]], has been listed for [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|deletion]]. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brian Sherwin]]. Thank you. <small>Do you want to [[Template:Bots#Message notification opt out|opt out]] of receiving this notice?</small><!-- Template:adw --> -&nbsp;<font face="Verdana">[[User:Cobaltbluetony|CobaltBlueTony™]]&nbsp;<sub>[[User_talk:Cobaltbluetony|talk]]</sub></font> 18:34, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


Are the changes I made acceptable? ([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 05:03, 7 May 2008 (UTC))

== Re: Brian Sherwin ==

You'd need to demonstrate that he is notable per [[WP:N]]. The myjournalcourier.com link is decent, but you'll need more like it. Simply put, the magazines he's been a part of aren't in large enough circulation. The interviews he did through his own website, but the website hasn't received a large enough mention for ''it'' to pass [[WP:N]]. Look for news sources that talk ''about'' him to start with (blogs aren't really usable for this). [[User:JeremyMcCracken|JeremyMcCracken]] ([[user talk:JeremyMcCracken|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/JeremyMcCracken|contribs]]) 20:36, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi Jeremy. I'm not sure that I can agree with your opinion on Hi Fructose and Juxtapoz. Both are noted for helping shape underground culture and influencing popular culture. The same can be said for many of the artists Sherwin has interviewed and is obviously associated with. The blog he maintains is the only source I can think of that positions mainstream artists next to underground artists while giving unknown artists a shot as well. The interviews are done for a site that he works for (aside from the guest interviews mentioned). He was hired as senior editor for Myartspace based on what I've read (I have a time line for that as well that I found on the myartspace site). The interviews are apparently sent out on a weekly ezine but I am not sure how many people subscribe to it. I did find a link where the ezine is archived. He is a founding staff member of myartspace and a member of their management team but he is not a founder (owner) of the site. I don't know if that makes a difference or not. I'll see what else I can dig up. If you have more advice please fork it over. ([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 21:18, 7 May 2008 (UTC))

It would seem that we need some '''''other''''' sources to explain how notable your sources are. This is actually a good idea, for if you can find reliable and verifiable documentation on those subjects, their established notability could in turn support your use of them as sources. Uphill all the way, but worth it if you care about the topic enough. (This is a common problem with "underground" topics.) -&nbsp;<font face="Verdana">[[User:Cobaltbluetony|CobaltBlueTony™]]&nbsp;<sub>[[User_talk:Cobaltbluetony|talk]]</sub></font> 21:22, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi Cobalt, that is fair enough. Another question, can I start the Winkleman and Greene bio or should I nail one coffin shut before moving on to the next? Thanks. ([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 22:04, 7 May 2008 (UTC))

Vito Acconci http://www.guggenheimcollection.org/site/artist_works_1B_0.html
James Rosenquist http://www.guggenheimcollection.org/site/artist_works_137A_0.html
Aleksandra Mir http://www.guggenheimcollection.org/site/museum_work_md_1_200610_1.html
Georgina Starr http://www.tate.org.uk/britain/exhibitions/artnow/georginastarr/default.shtm
Patrick Brill http://www.tate.org.uk/britain/exhibitions/intelligence/smith.htm
Michael Craig-Martin http://www.tate.org.uk/modern/exhibitions/raisedawareness/craigmartin.htm

These links show the notability of some of the artists Sherwin has interviewed. Working on more. ([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 00:13, 8 May 2008 (UTC))

:It's looking better, but there is one problem that hasn't been overcome. Basically, someone who has interviewed notable people isn't notable themself. It ''helps'' that you've shown that he has connections- in that vein, you might start by looking for articles that he's published that made it into some larger publications, but generally, the best thing to look for would be a source talking ''about'' him. There isn't a limit to what you can work on at what time, but make sure you can satisfy [[WP:N]] and [[WP:RS]] on those articles, or they'll wind up at AfD as well. [[User:JeremyMcCracken|JeremyMcCracken]] ([[user talk:JeremyMcCracken|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/JeremyMcCracken|contribs]]) 04:53, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

<!-- Template from Template:Refstart -->

== Guide to referencing ==
''Click on "show" on the right of the orange bar to open contents.''
{| class="navbox collapsible collapsed" style="text-align: center; border: 0px; margin-top: 0.2em; font-size: 100%; background: #ffefd5;"
|-
! style="background-color: #f90;" | <big>Using references (citations)</big>
|-
| style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white;" style="text-align: left;" |
<center><small>Help another user by posting this to them. Put <nowiki>{{subst:refstart}}</nowiki> on their talk page or a relevant article talk page.</small></center>
<center><small>Otherwise the link [[WP:REFB]] goes to a help page.</small></center>

I thought you might find it useful to have some information about references (refs) on wikipedia. These are important to [[WP:V|validate]] your writing and inform the reader. Any editor can remove unreferenced material; and unsubstantiated articles may end up getting deleted, so when you add something to an article, it's highly advisable to also [[Wikipedia:When to cite|include a reference]] to say where it came from. Referencing may look daunting, but it's easy enough to do. Here's a guide to getting started.

;<big>Good references</big>

A reference must be accurate, i.e. it must prove the statement in the text. To validate "Mike Brown climbed Everest", it's no good linking to a page about Everest, if Mike Brown isn't mentioned, nor to one on Mike Brown, if it doesn't say that he climbed Everest. You have to link to a source that proves his achievement is true. You must use [[WP:Reliable sources|reliable sources]], such as published books, mainstream press, and authorised web sites. Blogs, Myspace, Youtube, fan sites and extreme minority texts are not usually acceptable, nor is [[WP:Original research|original research]] (e.g. your own unpublished, or self-published, essay or research), or another wikipedia article.

;<big>Inserting a reference</big>

The first thing you have to do is to create a "Notes and references" section (unless it already exists). This goes towards the bottom of the page, below the "See also" section and above the "External links" section. Enter this code:

:<nowiki>==Notes and references==</nowiki>
:<nowiki>{{reflist}}</nowiki>

The next step is to put a reference in the text. Here is the code to do that. It goes at the end of the relevant term, phrase, sentence, or paragraph to which the note refers, and ''after'' punctuation such as a full stop, without a space (to prevent separation through line wrap):

:<nowiki><ref> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </ref></nowiki>

Whatever text you put in between these two tags will become visible in the "Notes and references" section as your reference.

;<big>Test it out</big>

Open the edit box for this page, copy the following text (inserting your own text where indicated), paste it at the bottom of the page and save the page:

:<nowiki>==Reference test==</nowiki>

:This is the text which you are going to verify with a reference.<nowiki><ref></nowiki>''Reference details go here''<nowiki></ref></nowiki>

:<nowiki>==Notes and references==</nowiki>

:<nowiki>{{reflist}}</nowiki>

(End of text to copy and paste.)

It should appear like this:

:;Reference test

:This is the text which you are going to verify with a reference.<ref>''Reference details go here''</ref>

:;Notes and references

:{{reflist}}

;<big>Information to include</big>

You need to include the information to enable the reader to find your source. For an online newspaper source, it might look like this:

:<nowiki><ref>Plunkett, John. [http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,14173,1601858,00.html "Sorrell accuses Murdoch of panic buying"], ''[[The Guardian]]'', [[2005-10-27]]. Retrieved on [[2005-10-27]].</ref></nowiki>

When uploaded, it appears as:
:Plunkett, John. [http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,14173,1601858,00.html "Sorrell accuses Murdoch of panic buying"], ''[[The Guardian]]'', [[2005-10-27]]. Retrieved on [[2005-10-27]].

Note the single square brackets around the URL and the article title. The format is:
:<nowiki>[http://URL "Title of article"]</nowiki>
Make sure there is a space between the URL and the Title. This code results in the URL being hidden and the title showing as a link. Use double apostrophes for the article title (it is quoted text), and two single quote marks either side of the name of the paper (to generate italics). Double square brackets round the name of the paper create an internal link (a wikilink) to the relevant wikipedia article. Apostrophes must go outside the brackets.

The date after ''The Guardian'' is the date of the newspaper, and the date after "Retrieved on" is the date you accessed the site &ndash; useful for searching the [http://www.archive.org web archive] in case the link goes dead. Dates are wikilinked so that they work with user [[Help:Preferences|preference settings]] to display the date in the format the user wishes.

;<big>References not online</big>

You can use sources which are not online, but which you have found in a library or elsewhere&mdash;in which case leave out the information which is not relevant. The newspaper example above would be formatted like this:
:<nowiki><ref>Plunkett, John. "Sorrell accuses Murdoch of panic buying", ''[[The Guardian]]'', [[2005-10-27]].</ref></nowiki>

When uploaded, it appears as:
:Plunkett, John. "Sorrell accuses Murdoch of panic buying", ''[[The Guardian]]'', [[2005-10-27]].

Here is an example for a book:

:<nowiki><ref>Charmley, John (2006). ''The Princess and the Politicians'', p.60. Penguin Books Ltd., London. ISBN 0140289712.</ref></nowiki>

When uploaded, it appears as:
::Charmley, John (2006). ''The Princess and the Politicians''. Penguin Books Ltd., London. ISBN 0140289712.

Make sure you put two single quote marks round the title (to generate italics), rather than one double quote mark.

;<big>Date format</big>

These formats are all acceptable for dates:
:<nowiki>[[2005-01-27]]</nowiki>
:<nowiki>[[27 January]] [[2007]]</nowiki>
:<nowiki>[[January 27]], [[2007]]</nowiki>

;<big>Citation templates</big>

You may prefer to use a citation template to compile details of the source. The template goes between the ref tags and you fill out the fields you wish to. Basic templates can be found here: [[Wikipedia:Template messages/Sources of articles/Citation quick reference]]

;<big>Same ref used twice or more</big>

The first time a reference appears in the article, you can give it a simple name in the <nowiki><ref></nowiki> code:

:<nowiki><ref name=smith>Details of ref here</ref></nowiki>

The second time you use the same reference in the article, you need only to create a short cut instead of typing it all out again:

:<nowiki><ref name=smith/></nowiki>

You can then use the short cut as many times as you want. Don't forget the /, or it will blank the rest of the article! A short cut will only pick up from higher up the page, so make sure the first ref is the full one. Some symbols don't work in the ref name, but you'll find out if you use them.

You can see multiple use of the same refs in action in the article [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=William_Bowyer_%28artist%29&oldid=179436485 William Bowyer (artist).] There are 3 sources and they are each referenced 3 times. Each statement in the article has a footnote to show what its source is.

;<big>Alternative system</big>
The above method is simple and combines references and notes into one section. A refinement is to put the full details of the references in their own section headed "References", while the notes which apply to them appear in a separate section headed "Notes". The notes can be inserted in the main article text in an abbreviated form as seen in [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Harriet_Arbuthnot&oldid=165667213 Harriet Arbuthnot] or in a full form as in [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brown_Dog_affair&oldid=179000868 Brown Dog affair.]

;<big>Further information</big>

More information can be found at:
*[[Wikipedia:Citing sources]]
*[[Wikipedia:Citing sources/example style]]
*[[Wikipedia:Template messages/Sources of articles/Citation quick reference]]
*[[Wikipedia:Citation templates]]
*[[Wikipedia:Footnotes]]

I hope this helps. If you need any assistance, let me know.

'''''[[User:Tyrenius|<font color="#880088">Ty</font>]]''''' 01:15, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
|}

==Article writing==

See the ref guide above. Basically you need third party sources that talk about or mention the subject, in order to show the subject has wider notability. You should use the information in those sources and then reference the information as shown in the ref guide. I suggest a list of interviewees in the article would be helpful. I'll have a look. '''''[[User:Tyrenius|<font color="#880088">Ty</font>]]''''' 01:18, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
:I've done some tweaking. I suggest you format the refs, as I have done with the first one. '''''[[User:Tyrenius|<font color="#880088">Ty</font>]]''''' 02:19, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! For the citation that is needed for the hundreds of artists statement should I just bump the link to the interview page up since they are all archived on there from what I've seen? ([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 02:21, 8 May 2008 (UTC))

:I've done it. The ref is now used twice[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brian_Sherwin&diff=210951285&oldid=210949855] - see the ref guide. The first time you give it a name. Instead of <nowiki><ref>,</nowiki> it's <nowiki><ref name=interviews>,</nowiki> for example, followed by the rest of the ref info as normal, with closing tag, don't forget, of <nowiki></ref>.</nowiki> The other times after that that you use it, all you need to do is put <nowiki><ref name=interviews/>.</nowiki> Note the / to close it. '''''[[User:Tyrenius|<font color="#880088">Ty</font>]]''''' 02:48, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

==Close tag==
You forgot to close the ref with <nowiki></ref></nowiki>. Look at the notes section.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brian_Sherwin&diff=210949669&oldid=210947177] An easy mistake. My correction is in red.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brian_Sherwin&diff=210949855&oldid=210949669] '''''[[User:Tyrenius|<font color="#880088">Ty</font>]]''''' 02:35, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

:Thanks. I tried to change it but you beat me to it. Any clue how long I have before the decision is made to delete the article or not? I'll keep working into the night if needed. Once this one is done I can use it as a guide for the other critics I would like to add. ([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 02:43, 8 May 2008 (UTC))

An [[WP:AFD|AFD]] stays open for 5 days, nominally, sometimes longer if no admin closes it on time, so it should be around till 11 May. More info on Sherwin's contributions to any print mags would be useful, particularly Juxtapoz. The ref should contain issue no./date and page no. preferably of the relevant article(s). Check out some [[WP:FA|featured articles]] for the top standard on wikipedia. '''''[[User:Tyrenius|<font color="#880088">Ty</font>]]''''' 02:53, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks again TY. ([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 02:57, 8 May 2008 (UTC))

==Refs==
It would improve the look of the article considerably if you format the references as I have done with the first one. See the ref guide above on this page. '''''[[User:Tyrenius|<font color="#880088">Ty</font>]]''''' 03:50, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks again. I made more changes and then I added a link that I guess wikipedia did not like and all my stuff was changed back. But it looks like I got it fixed. I undid the revision and took out the link that annoyed the bot program. It looks better now. Still room to improve I'm sure. ([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 14:14, 8 May 2008 (UTC))

== May 2008 ==
[[Image:Information.svg|25px]] Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, one or more of the external links you added {{#if:Brian Sherwin|to the page [[:Brian Sherwin]]}} do not comply with our [[Wikipedia:External links|guidelines for external links]] and have been removed. [[Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#LINK|Wikipedia is not a collection of links]]; nor should it be used for [[Wikipedia:Spam|advertising]] or promotion. Since Wikipedia uses [[nofollow]] tags, external links do not alter search engine rankings. If you feel the link should be added to the article, please discuss it on the {{#if:Brian Sherwin|[[talk:Brian Sherwin|article's talk page]]|article's talk page}} before reinserting it. Please take a look at the [[Wikipedia:Welcome|welcome page]] to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. {{#if:&nbsp;|&nbsp;|Thank you.}}<!-- Template:uw-spam1 -->

Your edit [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brian_Sherwin&diff=211030877&oldid=211028255 here] was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to remove [[WP:NOT#REPOSITORY|unwanted links]] and [[WP:SPAM|spam]] from Wikipedia. If you were trying to insert a good link, please accept my creator's apologies, but note that the [[Wikipedia:External links|external link]] you added or changed is on my list of links to remove and probably shouldn't be included in Wikipedia.

The external links I reverted were matching the following [[regex|regex rule(s)]]: rule: '\bblogspot\.com' (link(s): http://2winks.blogspot.com/2008/04/schweeeet-kokeshi-in-hifructose-vol-7.html) . If the external link you inserted or changed was to a [[blog]], [[forum]], [[free web hosting service]], or similar site, then please check the information on the external site thorougly. Note that such sites should probably not be linked to if they contain information that is in violation of the creators [[Wikipedia:COPYRIGHT|copyright]] (see [[Wikipedia:COPYRIGHT#Linking to copyrighted works|Linking to copyrighted works]]), or they are not written by a recognised, [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable source]]. Linking to sites that you are involved with is also strongly discouraged (see [[Wikipedia:Conflict of interest|conflict of interest]]).



Please read Wikipedia's [[WP:EL|external links guideline]] for more information, and consult my [[User:XLinkBot/Reversion reasons|list of frequently-reverted sites]]. For more information about me, see [[User:XLinkBot/FAQ|my FAQ page]]. Thanks! <!-- Template:uw-spam1 -->[[User:XLinkBot|XLinkBot]] ([[User talk:XLinkBot|talk]]) 14:06, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I took the bad link out. ([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 14:15, 8 May 2008 (UTC))

==Moonriddengirl==
{{talkback|Moonriddengirl|Can you take a look at this?}}

Hi. Just dropping you a note to tell you that I've responded again. :) --[[User:Moonriddengirl|Moonriddengirl]] <sup>[[User talk:Moonriddengirl|(talk)]]</sup> 11:50, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Two more responses to you at my page. --[[User:Moonriddengirl|Moonriddengirl]] <sup>[[User talk:Moonriddengirl|(talk)]]</sup> 14:15, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

And another. --[[User:Moonriddengirl|Moonriddengirl]] <sup>[[User talk:Moonriddengirl|(talk)]]</sup> 14:39, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi. I just had another glance at your AfD to see how it was progressing, and I'm a little concerned based on [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AArticles_for_deletion%2FBrian_Sherwin&diff=211278325&oldid=211276633 this] that you may believe the AfD is resolved. When the AfD is resolved, the administrator who closes it will place it within a box, with the result recorded at the top. It will basically look like [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Citizen Fish|this]]. Sometimes, in AfDs that are not so clear cut, the closing administrator will also explain there how he or she judged consensus. (Oh, and additionally, I have replied to your most recent note on my talk page.) --[[User:Moonriddengirl|Moonriddengirl]] <sup>[[User talk:Moonriddengirl|(talk)]]</sup> 20:34, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

==Your recent comments==
You perhaps were misinformed. You should not place comments about ongoing AfD's on anyone's talk page - all comments should go in the AfD discussion itself. You also should not make accusations of bad faith unless you have a specific reason to justify these claims; disagreeing with your opinion is not a valid reason. Both of these things are breaches of Wikiquette. Happy editing! [[User:BWH76|BWH76]] ([[User talk:BWH76|talk]]) 13:23, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


I had placed my reason there and you failed to respond. In your vote you simply agreed with Jeremy. However, Jeremy's info was 1.) outdated because the bio has changed much since his vote. 2.) contained false information about the subject of the bio that had nothing to do with the bio in the first place. I will also state that I'm new here so you can newbie bite all you want. Happy editing. Sure. ([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 13:34, 9 May 2008 (UTC))

:Ah, if it appeared that I was a bit snippy in my reply above, I didn't mean to convey that. Now that I've re-read what I wrote, I can see how you may have gotten that impression - sorry about that! Either way, the conversations about AfD's should remain on the AfD discussion page so that other editors may read all of the given opinions. The issue of accusing another editor of bad faith is actually a fundamental policy for Wikipedia - you can read more about it [[Wikipedia:Assume good faith | here]]. To sum it up, it is usually a bad idea to accuse others of bad faith unless you have a pretty clear-cut example to prove your point. It's regarded as an insult here as it tends to imply (or explicitly denote) a [[wp:npov | non-neutral point of view]] or an example of [[wp:civil | incivility]]. Hope that helps! [[User:BWH76|BWH76]] ([[User talk:BWH76|talk]]) 13:59, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Assumptions seem to rule the day here. One can assume it was bad faith because the way you wrote it makes it appear as if you agree with the other person word for word, but that statement is false if you had read the bio. Sherwin is not the creator of the site and I don't think the notability of the site should determine the notability of a writer and art critic who has been published both online and offline. I guess I had hoped you would have offered more so that I can improve. ([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 14:09, 9 May 2008 (UTC))

::One more thing - I'd recommend to you that you create a user page and copy all of the article's information on there so that you can work to improve it. If the consensus is to delete the entry as it currently exists, then you may have to start over again from scratch if you think you may improve it and it could fit within the guidelines of Wikipedia.

::How do you do this? Well, enter a URL like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Roodhouse1/Sherwin; you'll then get a "create a page" message, and copy and paste all of the work you've done on the existing article. You can then use that space to improve it, adding the references from reliable sources and all that jazz. Once you think it will pass muster, then recreate the page. Just a suggestion! [[User:BWH76|BWH76]] ([[User talk:BWH76|talk]]) 14:15, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

== Brian Sherwin ==

Unfortunately, none of the references you've added to [[Brian Sherwin]] constitute non-trivial mentions in reliable third-party sources -- most of the sources are either unreliable (interviews, personal websites, etc.) or trivial (one piece of art on the cover of the Illinois Times). [[User:TenPoundHammer|<span style="color:green">Ten&nbsp;Pound&nbsp;Hammer</span>]] <small>and his otters</small> • <sup>([[Special:Contributions/TenPoundHammer|Broken clamshells]]•[[:User talk:TenPoundHammer|Otter chirps]])</sup> 15:39, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

*I didn't delete it; I merely nominated it for deletion and an administrator agreed with me. Please refer to TenPoundHammer's comment above as well as [[WP:BIO]]. Thanks. --[[User:PMDrive1061|PMDrive1061]] ([[User talk:PMDrive1061|talk]]) 15:41, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
**Scratch that; I didn't know it was now up for discussion. It actually looks good the way it stands. --[[User:PMDrive1061|PMDrive1061]] ([[User talk:PMDrive1061|talk]]) 15:44, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
*FYI, I've voted to keep the article in its present state. You've done a fine job of establishing notability. Nice work! --[[User:PMDrive1061|PMDrive1061]] ([[User talk:PMDrive1061|talk]]) 15:49, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


Hmmm... where did the external links go then? There is a lot to learn here all at once. :) ([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 15:52, 9 May 2008 (UTC))

==Art fairs==
You should first establish if a subject has sufficient reliable sources to validate its content. If so, then it merits an article. Everything is dependent on verification. Yes, it's a steep learning curve, but wiki's standards are being raised all the time. It may be better to prepare an article safely in your user space before putting into article space. You can do this by clicking this link: [[User:Roodhouse1/Draft 1]]. Either that or put:
:<nowiki>{{inuse}}</nowiki>
including the squiggly brackets, at the top of an article you are working on, though that's not a guarantee. '''''[[User:Tyrenius|<font color="#880088">Ty</font>]]''''' 01:04, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

:Hi Ty, so what is considered a reliable source because based on what some people have said something is only reliable if it is on wikipedia already or the New York Times. I don't see Art News, ArtForum, or Art in America on wikipedia. So would those sources not be considered reliable? Should I perhaps focus on those publications and then move on to the art fairs? There is a lot of present day art content missing on wikipedia and I think that is a shame. ([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 01:15, 10 May 2008 (UTC))

If you follow the links at the top of this page and read the ref guide you will find out what is considered a reliable source. Start at [[WP:V]] and [[WP:RS]]. NYT is certainly considered one. Something is not necessarily one just because it has a wiki article. Wikipedia is ''not'' considered to be a reliable source! The three art mags you mentioned are undoubtedly reliable sources, though a lot of editors would not realise that, because they are specialist magazines. It may have to be pointed out to them. If you care to write articles on them, that would be a very useful addition - but make sure you provide the refs! There is a lot of art content missing, because there is a scarcity of editors interested in art. This is a known factor. '''''[[User:Tyrenius|<font color="#880088">Ty</font>]]''''' 02:16, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

[[ARTnews]], [[Artforum]] and [[Art in America]] do already have (albeit rather sketchy) articles.--[[User:Ethicoaestheticist|Ethicoaestheticist]] ([[User talk:Ethicoaestheticist|talk]]) 23:38, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

{{WPVA}}

==Juxtapoz==
I thought you might be interested in my edit to Juxtapoz.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Juxtapoz_Art_%26_Culture_Magazine&diff=prev&oldid=211381035] I would see the myartspace interviews as a reliable source for the ''opinions'' of the interviewees, and therefore matter could be used in articles about those artists with myartspace as a reference. It is always better to use something in this way, rather than just bung in an external link. Wiki is looking for referenced content, and is not a links repository. '''''[[User:Tyrenius|<font color="#880088">Ty</font>]]''''' 02:22, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

:Hi Ty, I don't understand. Did you make the change already or are you asking me to OK it? I trust your knowledge so feel free to make changes. ([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 02:25, 10 May 2008 (UTC))

::OK, I see what you did. Looks great. What about some of the controversial artists he has interviewed like Wafaa Bilal who is also an instructor at SAIC. In that interview Wafaa mentioned his virtual jihadi project which got some press. Can the interview on myartspace itself be used as a ref in that scenario? ([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 02:32, 10 May 2008 (UTC))

:::See here, http://www.myartspace.com/blog/2008/03/art-space-talk-wafaa-bilal.html ([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 02:34, 10 May 2008 (UTC))

That is what I am saying - that the interviews can be used to verify statements by the interviewees. That is not the same as verifying "facts" stated by the interviewees. If X says in an interview "such and such", you can't then put in an article that "such and such" is the case and use the interview as a reference, but you can say that X has stated "such and such" and use the interview as a reference. It is a subtle but important distinction. Where "such and such" refers only to the X and his activities and is non-contentious, then then it is OK to state it. Read through [[WP:V]]. By the way, on talk pages a colon indents talk by one space, two colons by two spaces etc. for clarity of reading. '''''[[User:Tyrenius|<font color="#880088">Ty</font>]]''''' 02:45, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

:Whether the artist is "controversial" or not is irrelevant. The only thing that counts is [[WP:N|notability]]. This cannot be established merely by an interview in Myartspace, although that would help towards it. '''''[[User:Tyrenius|<font color="#880088">Ty</font>]]''''' 02:51, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

==Fidelity to refs==
You inserted a statement in the middle of a referenced paragraph,[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brian_Sherwin&diff=211388829&oldid=211378840] but that statement is not validated by the ref. I have adjusted the refs to fit the statements that are covered by it. The new statement remains unreferenced. Also refs go after any punctuation. '''''[[User:Tyrenius|<font color="#880088">Ty</font>]]''''' 02:53, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

:Hi Ty, I'm going to go over the info you suggested when I get back. I added the fact that Kirsten Anderson is the author of Pop Surrealism do I need to find a ref about her book? Can you look that over to see if it works? If it does not work feel free to take that information out. I also found Sherwin's interview with Alex Grey posted on Grateful Web would this be considered a reliable source about Sherwin's interview with Alex Grey? The site has been around since the early 90s. I'll be back. I have to run some errands. ([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 02:57, 10 May 2008 (UTC))

::I took the book info out. :) ([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 03:04, 10 May 2008 (UTC))

Please read what I post - colons indent talk! You only need one space between paragraphs on a talk page. You don't ''have'' to have a ref for every single thing, but it is better to. Then no one can challenge it. Unreferenced material may be removed by any editor. My objection was that it was inserted in a paragraph in a way that gave the appearance of it being referenced, when it wasn't. I adjusted the refs to avoid it, so it could be kept in. I don't know about Grateful Web. If you think it's a good source, then use it. '''''[[User:Tyrenius|<font color="#880088">Ty</font>]]''''' 03:08, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

==Bridge Art Fair and Art Chicago==
I look forward to reading the articles. Art Chicago looks like the best one to start with because its success or failure is the subject of national/art press coverage: [http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A04EEDA153AF934A25754C0A9629C8B63], [http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE7DE1631F930A25756C0A96F948260], [http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1248/is_4_93/ai_n13629201].--[[User:Ethicoaestheticist|Ethicoaestheticist]] ([[User talk:Ethicoaestheticist|talk]]) 22:26, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to get started working on these soon. There is a Japanese art fair that is getting a ton of press as well. I just can't remember the name off hand. ([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 15:47, 16 May 2008 (UTC))


==Bios to work on, Edward Winkleman and Tyler Greene==
==Bios to work on, Edward Winkleman and Tyler Greene==
Line 424: Line 72:


:I'd be happy to look at them. I suggest you post in a user sub page first of all (where they will be safe from deletion), complete with refs etc. However, put a colon at the beginning of categories, so your sub page isn't shown on the category page, i.e. <nowiki>[[:Category:Art critics]]</nowiki>. You can then ask for feedback from others also. [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Visual arts]] is an obvious place to request this. '''''[[User:Tyrenius|<font color="#880088">Ty</font>]]''''' 05:46, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
:I'd be happy to look at them. I suggest you post in a user sub page first of all (where they will be safe from deletion), complete with refs etc. However, put a colon at the beginning of categories, so your sub page isn't shown on the category page, i.e. <nowiki>[[:Category:Art critics]]</nowiki>. You can then ask for feedback from others also. [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Visual arts]] is an obvious place to request this. '''''[[User:Tyrenius|<font color="#880088">Ty</font>]]''''' 05:46, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

== Illinois College Notable Alumni ==

Hello Roodhouse1. Because of your interest in the Brian Sherwin article (and the involvement of a Roodhouse in the issue), I'm addressing this to you. If you're not doing it, please ignore this and I apologize.

Please refrain from posting Brian Sherwin in notable alumni of Illinois College. The Brian Sherwin article questionably meets notability guidelines for Wikipedia, let alone makes him a notable alumni of Illinois College. If you disagree, please respond on the discussion page of Illinois College BEFORE adding him back to the list. [[User:RegainTheTruth|RegainTheTruth]] ([[User talk:RegainTheTruth|talk]]) 04:28, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


I don't recall adding him to that list nor do I think he deserves to be on it. At least not yet. ([[User:Roodhouse1|Roodhouse1]] ([[User talk:Roodhouse1#top|talk]]) 11:17, 31 July 2008 (UTC))


== Kirk Weddle ==
== Kirk Weddle ==

Revision as of 01:27, 1 August 2008

Welcome!

Hello, Roodhouse1! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions to this free encyclopedia. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! Ty 01:16, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Getting started
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Miscellaneous

Bios to work on, Edward Winkleman and Tyler Greene

I think I'm ready to start the next art critic bio now that the Brian Sherwin bio is out of the way. The Edward Winleman bio will be my next contribution. Tyler's will be a breeze. I think. If anyone reads this and has ideas let me know. Let me know if you are aware of other American art critics and writers that you think should be included on wikipedia. I'll read up on them. (Roodhouse1 (talk) 17:28, 16 May 2008 (UTC))[reply]

I'd be happy to look at them. I suggest you post in a user sub page first of all (where they will be safe from deletion), complete with refs etc. However, put a colon at the beginning of categories, so your sub page isn't shown on the category page, i.e. [[:Category:Art critics]]. You can then ask for feedback from others also. Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Visual arts is an obvious place to request this. Ty 05:46, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Kirk Weddle

If you can find the sources, by all means write up the article. You can do this in your user space at User:Roodhouse1/Kirk Weddle (click link to start the new page). It was such a short article that I suggest starting from scratch. If you really need the existing text, I can retrieve it. Ty 00:59, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I still have the links and most of what I wrote saved elsewhere. I did not get far. Not sure if it is worth it though. I did find some info about Cobain's reaction to the photograph as well as the name of the Art Director from Geffen records who hired Weddle. Most of the info comes from articles about the guy who was in the photograph as a baby. I don't think the model is notable at all. Yet it seems that his bio might be merged. If that happens it might be possible to merge info about the artist behind the photograph as well. I guess that is the question. Can an artist be notable for one iconic image? (Roodhouse1 (talk) 01:05, 1 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]

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