Talk:Tyranid

This discussion page has been archived (1) as most of it is exceedingly old. Let's keep things neat and tidy, eh? Sojourner001 18:14, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

first edition, Rogue Trader

conventional equipment

The line The first Tyranids used conventional, non-biological equipment such as lasguns and flak armour is virtually a quote from Games Workshop: http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/tyranids/articles/genesis.htm

I remember Rogue Trader did not include specialist weapons for (at that time) minor races. Hence Tyranids and Zoats had to be equipped with conventional equipment. --Air 12:49, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

board game incarnations

I notice that Ultra Marines did not actually feature any alien races, but was a simplified scout vs. scout game. Source: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/8728 --Air 13:10, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Space Hulk definately included Genestealers and that was a boardgame SanchiTachi 18:49, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

!!!

What happened to the article? I come back and its a jumbled mess! Why do we have the "Tyranid Info" section? It's pointless, that small bit of information can be placed throughout the article. What the crap are all the bio-enhancements doing here?

I'm afraid to see the other articles. Colonel Marksman 00:07, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, this article has filled up with garbage and cruft since I last saw it. I'd like some consent to revert to a very old edit of mine, which in my opinion was closer to what we're after than anything that's come after - which is largely nonsense and irrelevant trivia. Sojourner001 16:17, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

The article is far cleaner than what it was, and now has points, issues, and the likes attributed. If you revert it, instead of improving different parts, then you not here to help, but only want to damage the article as a whole. Please keep that in mind. And before you start accusing things of fan craft, please follow the Ettiquette rules. Its not your place to judge the article as good or bad, or pass any such value judgments on things like that. There is very little "irrelevant trivia" included, and your lack of appropriately quoting such as example is proof of that. SanchiTachi 16:24, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Tyranid Strategy

As a suggestion, maybe there should be a section on tyranid strategies. Please vote. An idea would be to build the section here and openly edit it before it goes on into the article. I suggest that the section be subdivided into godzilla army strategy, swarm strategy, and a jack-of-all-trades army strategy. Things to include would be components required for each army and their roles which produce the maximum effect. Multitallented 03:45, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Yea, but don't title it "strategy." It should deal with the different tactics included in the book. It should be expanded to cover operating with genestealer based armies (I have the official subcodex for that), or with the different brood amounts. Also, whoever you are that wrote this area, please make a user name so we know what to address you as. Thanks. SanchiTachi 18:46, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

It has been brought to my attention that strategy guides are not content to be posted on wikipedia. Maybe a source could be quoted about tyranid strategy leading to a web page on tyranid strategy?Multitallented 16:40, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

No. 'Strategy' isn't encyclopedic or particularly relevant, and should go. Sojourner001 16:21, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Before you make more claims without proof, the strategy section is cited and was included in the book in order to show what kind of creature/army the Tyranids were. Just like animal pages have eating habits and sex habits, an Army page should have the appropriately sourced strategy section. That is how Encyclopedias work. Even Napoleon has strategy talked about. SanchiTachi 16:29, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually I agree with Sojourner, Strategy isn't encylopedic. That should belong on a forum.Multitallented 15:56, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Have a source to demonstrate that the Strategy section as put forth is not encyclopedic? Because I followed the same way that other games follow in putting forth such things. Also, Brittanica does talk about Napoleon's use of cannons in battle and how the Roman Testudo works, so Encyclopedias do include strategy. SanchiTachi 16:08, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Here is some proof to what I say:

• "Lobbying strategies and tactics" http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-257771/interest-group
• "From late 1942 German strategy, every feature of which was determined by Hitler, was solely aimed at protecting the still very large area under German contro" http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-53582/World-War-II
• "Strategy of contract bridge The object in contract bridge is to score as many points as possible and to permit the opponents to score as few points as possible. The strategy employed by the best players in pursuit of this object embraces a technique that in complexity approaches the technique of chess, as well as a scope for deductive analysis, psychology, alertness, and mental ascendancy over…"http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-256390/bridge

As you can see, three such strategy sections from Brittanica, and there are many more. SanchiTachi 16:17, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I thought I had weighed in here... But it must have been at some other strategy discussion. My opinion though is in line with Sanchi's, if one can provide source material that supports the strategy, then it certainly should be included. --Falcorian ^(talk) 16:29, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

• I am against having this page for any of our articles. Reason: They don't exist anymore. All a strategy is is a playstyle, and Games Workshop removed them in newer Codexes. Besides, the Tyranid Codex (none of them) have listed tactics anyway. The Tyranids can be modified in too many different ways to have any specific "strategy" or "tactic". Oh yes, who knows the difference between strategy and tactics?

In this case, the Tyranid strategy is to take over a planet by overwhelming their foes. How they go about it battle is the tactic. In reality, we'd be posting "Tyranid Tactics" not strategy. Colonel Marksman 19:33, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

You do know that old Codexes are still verifiable and still need to have their information presented, right? Just remember that its not a good way to rationalize an edit solely on that point. Also, remember that random people will continue to put it back in, and such information is verifiable, which means that its allowed on wiki. SanchiTachi 19:45, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

• You're not understanding the point. There are not set or defined tactics for the Tyranids, or any race. All they are is play style. There's numberless play styles, and it would be impractical to try and name them all. Worse, you can't give a viable source for any of them. Most of it is all opinionated anyway.

A Godzilla list, for example. You can't source that. If you can't source it, don't post it. Articles should only have raw, proven facts only. With this, there's also no room for NPOV problems, because it is neutral. No opinions to balance or argue with. Colonel Marksman 19:56, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I know. I created the original thing as a source to keep people from randomly throwing it back up. Also, the NPOV is how you word or introducing yourself. If you quote, your quote can have the point of view for the source. Minor difference, but yeah. I just wanted to warn you about the dangerous area of anonymous user battle you'll have to go through for the removing of the section. lol :) SanchiTachi 20:09, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Tyranid Building Modifications

I propose that a section be made specifically to introduce deviations in assembly of tyranid models, such as the carnifex. An example would be a picture of the assembled model and possible list of all biomorphs it represents. Please post suggestions here. Multitallented 03:45, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

As with the tyranid strategy section, the same thing could be done for mods on building.Multitallented 16:41, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Why not add any info on this that you can cite to the biomorphs section? One picture may work (or a few tiny pictures) for the whole thing, as they only need an idea of what is being talked about instead of examples for each. It is important to include such information to distinguish the Tyranids as an army in a game, as opposed to an in-universe alien page. SanchiTachi 16:33, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

The Changes

I went through, put more specific sourcing, and I revamped the different pages.

I organized, destroyed redunancies, and made so many changes that my head is spinning. I spent a long time trying to organize and kill anything that was too wordy, already there, etc.

I hope the page works and is a lot cleaner than before. Any reviews and spelling/grammar would be helpful. SanchiTachi 00:04, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Zoanthrope origin

I added the fact they're harvested from Eldar DNA, as that was included in the Tyranid Codex.

Kaenei 19:49, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Note, it was in the 3rd edition but not the 4th and was deemed "classified." That means that its an idea. Maybe we should create a biomorophs/weapons page and include possible origins of such creatures there and then note that those have been deemed Classified in order to make the knowledge in dispute. How does that sound? SanchiTachi 19:56, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

The official origin of the DNA used in the creation of a Zoanthrope is unknown; I think that Eldar DNA is the most likely, since the Eldar's psykers are probably the best-known in the Warhammer 40K universe, and the Zoanthrope is limited almost entirely to its psychic abilities. Groundlord (talk) 17:46, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

A Proposal

I expanded the different pages to make a Warrior Genus page and worked the Genestealers to follow the same organization structure. I will work out a Gaunt Page and a page for the Titans. However, I think all four would be greatly served by an info box or a genetic chart. If someone wants to put together a hand drawn version of the 4th edition chart and then "emphasize" in the picture the specific group, then that would be great. SanchiTachi 02:35, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Squigs

The section on squigs has numerous basic grammar and spelling errors. I fixed several obvious things, but someone with more knowledge of the subject material should clean up the rest, especially the line "Although there ones diviced from squats and Eldar as well." I have no idea what the word "diviced" is supposed to be, or for that matter what a "squat" is. --erunaheru 03:42, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Derived? And a Squat is a space dwarf. :) SanchiTachi 03:44, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

My Review

1. Remove personal opinion please! Using adjectives like "awesome" falls under opinion, and doesn't belong in encyclopedic articles.

2. We need to reorganize the speces. Lictors aren't monstrous creatures, and Hive Tyrants are. The branching pages also seem... unworkable. Look, you have a list filled with creatures with one to two sentences long for each. Then you take that and place the list as its own stand-alone article. That just doesn't register to me. I understand lists exist, but lists exist because they are too long to keep on the main page. What we need to do is to first of all make a list of ALL the species (including those from Battlefleet Gothic) into one page. THEN pick the page apart and make needed branches. The Tyranids are too big for their tails on Wikipedia right now; they take up more articles than they need to. While I find it distasteful to have one article overflowing with details, I also find it distasteful to have articles with several unncessary branches. Both are hard and complicated to keep up with, edit, and search through for information.

3. We still need more pictures.

4. Despite these, I do agree the Tyranid article is in much better shape than before. The 'Tyranid Genetics' page is exactly the way I dreamed for the Tyranid's 'weapons and equipment' page. Only, we need to put in weapons. Colonel Marksman 20:02, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

A few responses. 1. Where the hell did that come from? lol, I don't know why it would be in there. 2. Lictors are elite choices, but yeah, the section should be renamed to larger tyranids or something else to separate those from the ones below. The Tyrants need to be with the other synapse creatures. However it can be worked out, thats probably the best. The branches that I put forth so far was Titans (which seemed obvious), the Genestealers (they had their own variant army) and the Warrior Genus (which is broken down in the 4th edition codex as such). I left out the Gaunts because I didn't have time to move them to its own page. It would group 5 or more individual notable units into each page. The Titans page doesn't have much information because I don't have my book to fill in the gaps. 3. Agreed. 4. The weapons section definately needs to be added so they can be linked to the appropriate mentions (I believe there are over 30 references to weapons in the various sections).

Some fat that can be trimmed can definately be found in the first part of the History, by 50 or so words. Also, the gaming section at the end with the variations in the editions can be trimmed by at least 50 words. That would help quite a bit. The introduction to the notable characters can be trimmed down and renamed to fit the new name for the "monstrous characters" section. SanchiTachi 20:18, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Update - I went ahead and trimmed some stuff. Do we need to have a mention of the Tyranid Model Range? I think such things could be moved onto individual pages (such for Tyrants, have Tyrant Guards as a catagory and then explain the difference of the models over time, not much of course). I do think we would need a mention of the Hive Fleet pieces (the Battlefleet Gothic Pieces) or we could trim down the hive fleets, move the bulk of the info to its own page, and then mention the types of ships provided in Gothic in addition. What do you think? SanchiTachi 20:31, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

• Alright! The article is looking awesome! A few more references, and a few more pics, and this could be a featured article... imo. Colonel Marksman 00:39, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Quick question: I'm making a Gaunts page in the same manner as warriors and Genestealers (Genestealers page needs a little help to flesh it out), but do you think I should make a "fleets" page, talk about some of the particular fleets and how they operated (trimming the article part just to the "history" of the fleet) and then move the ship pictures over (so we have a bridge to the alternative games, like Gothic)? If so, I can hunt down a different picture of the Hive Ship for this page. SanchiTachi 00:46, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

A Question/Favor to Ask

Does anyone know of the Black Library books that involve Tyranids? If so, could you put information here on them (a one paragraph synopsis of the book, reference details, etc), so we can put together a Black Library section? Or at least list the books at the bottom of the page. I know there are a few for Macragge. SanchiTachi 02:05, 22 May 2007 (UTC) The only couple that havent been mentioned I can think of off the top of my head is the short stories book Deathwing, in the Deathwing short story Ansell/William King where some DA's take on a 'Stealer cult, and also in the same book The Alien Beast Within by Ian Watson, where a Callidus assassin infiltrates a cult. Both are short stories but Deathwing is especially important and Alien Beast was a fairly good/quick read. Cant think of any others but I know there is one more. I'll check back in this weekend after I rummage through my boxes. ChonkE (talk) 10:44, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Malanthobe

The malanthobe isnt a bio-titan which means it should be in the tyranid section rather than the tyranid titan section. General Aion 05:46, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

You mean the Malanthrope? Technically, its taller than a Carnifex, and its a special (and expensive) model from Forge World, and it had rules along side of the titans in the current rules for Epic (or at least the current tyranid rules that on the specialist games website for them). It just seemed more convienent to put them there instead of worrying about it too catagories too much (plus, I looked at the chart on the current Tyranids codex and any that were "speculated" for origins I just lumped them in with titans, as they all seemed to be "bigger" versions of what they were speculated to be from, I hope this helps). SanchiTachi 05:54, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Reaper-Fex

In a white dwarf based campainge somone made a big tyranid creature and it was called "the Reaper-Fex" should we add it or isnt ther enough fluff? It did say were it origated and how it attacked though. General Aion 05:48, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

There are a lot of white dwarf campaigns and I believe the carnifex variants are covered on the Warrior Genus page. Only the really "special" models should be mentioned, which were the three unique versions of the warrior bases (ravener, carnifex and lictor). But yeah, the Warrior Genus page has a lot of extra information. SanchiTachi 05:54, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

But it had its own special rules- it was not a carnifex variant. It looked like a cross between a carnifex and a ravener. Hers a link to a picture of it: http://www.games-workshop.com.au/cs/laius/painting/thecreature/images/battle1.jpg General Aion 07:45, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

That is most definitely a Trygon. (sov)

Hmmm, well, the model was never sold, and conversion pieces aren't allowed (only "official" pieces are, i.e. models with approved rules and produced models). It can be mentioned in the gaming section, as a campaign was created with a conversion piece, and then link to the page discussing it (I would put a paragraph on the campaign), but isn't "canon" enough to go on the Carnifex page or as a special character. Special characters need to have an official special model and official special rules (and also have to be "usable" as the special character). SanchiTachi 16:14, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

It had aproved special rules published in WD 310. General Aion 01:52, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

That is a tyranid created specifically for a a narrative campain held in the Australian White dwarf running from issue 310 to 313. It was not approved by Games Workshop (though the rules were designed by thier employees) and not intended for general use. It is also most definitely not a trygon. For some background, it was called the 'Lauis Horror' (not Reaper-Fex) and was a creature developed by a hive ship frozen and buried on the quarantined world of Lauis Rift. It had the ability to hide itself in the bodies of humans, killing them by bursting out. The story involved an Adaptus Mechanicus expedition (note the men in photo of above link) landing on the world to search for crashed alien ships and unlocking the tyranids. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.183.79.186 (talk) 22:29, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Tyranid vessels

Do you think we should have a section or page for tyranid vessels from BFG? Or maybe we should put them as a species- there living anyway. General Aion 07:52, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Already have one, its the Hive Fleets page. SanchiTachi 16:12, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Tyranids Cover 3rd.jpg

Image:Tyranids Cover 3rd.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:Tyranids Codexr.JPG

Image:Tyranids Codexr.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:47, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Space hulk cover.JPG

Image:Space hulk cover.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 08:31, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Hive Fleet Carcaradon

I just removed it from the "Other Hive Fleets" section. No such fleet exists as far as I'm aware, let alone one encountered by the Necrons on Kronus. Especially when you consider that there are no Tyranids in Dawn of War whatsoever.

Google however returns results for "Hive Fleet Carcharodon". Suspect this may have been a fan's edit to include their own hive fleet.

Can whoever's doing that not do it please. The whole point of this article is to show Tyranids as they appear in official publications, not to boost your own ego. If this however is an actual Hive Fleet, please cite and link source material to confirm it.

-The Great Unwashed 07:13, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

-gaunt or -gant?

Apologies if this is common knowledge, but it seems like some of the WH40K fiction is inconsistent in spelling Tyranid types, varying for example in Termagant/Hormagaunt while on the Tyranid page it is Termagaunt (and redirects to Termagant!) Is there actually a correct spelling convention? -MalkavianX 04:13, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

The termagant species is spelled termagant, despite it being a Gaunt. Don't know why, but in my codex, every mention is spelled termagant. ALl other species in the Gaunt genus end in gaunt, not gant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.204.111.219 (talk) 21:56, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it really matters, since most people pronounce it as "Termagaunt" anyway. Groundlord (talk) 17:49, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Merge from Tyrant Guard

The Tyrant Guard article seems to be a fork from this one that contains very little in the way of real world perspective or info. Pairadox 02:05, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree on this point, it ought to be folded into the main article. Makingupthenumbers (talk) 23:09, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Me too. (sov) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sovfalcon (talk • contribs) 06:59, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't really think any of the units in any article deserve their own article. Colonel Marksman (talk) 04:41, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Ymgarl Stealers

Does anyone here think something should be included in the Other Hive Fleets part about the Ymgarl genestealers? Since this would indicate other previous Tyranid encounters in the Milky Way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.250.237.134 (talk) 11:07, 26 October 2007 (UTC) It certainly gives them a nice early date of contact. It seems a fairly minor point though and not relevant or interesting enough to the main body to be included in my opinion. ChonkE (talk) 11:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Semi-synaptic. What is it?

Im confuzzled plz help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.118.31.146 (talk) 17:20, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

All I know is that Zoanthropes are semi-synaptic, so I think it means that they don't use the Instinctive Behavior rule if there isn't Synapse creature near them. KyuubiSeal (talk) 17:27, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I think it means some of the species are synaptic, making the species as a whole, semi-synaptic. I think... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.204.111.219 (talk) 21:51, 6 January 2008 (UTC) lol, check your codex :) remember your biomorphs and remember their nickname. "Brain". ChonkE (talk) 11:00, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Semi-synaptic doesn't even exist in the game rules. Tyranids that aren't Synapse Creatures use the Instinctive Behaviour rules if they are outside Synapse range, unless they have a rule that lets them act normally (currently, only Genestealers and Biovores have this ability). "Semi-synaptic" is probably only a reference to the extent of a Tyranid's connection to the Hive Mind; for game purposes, the influence that a Synapse Creature has over lesser Tyranids is the same whether it's a Zoanthrope, a Warrior, a Broodlord, or a Hive Tyrant. Groundlord (talk) 05:35, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Wraith Fleet?

In the section talking about "other hive fleets" there is a paragraph about so-called Hive Fleet Wraith. No sources are cited for this, I personally have heard nothing of it, and to me, it sounds like someone just put in their own hive fleet background just so it could be in the Tyranid page. Im deleting it. If you want it on the page, give me sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.100.136.156 (talk) 00:47, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Original concept

I heard that the original concept and design was that of mutated humanoid aliens with carapace and biological blades, and that the.. er, Zerg-like design was introduced only recently (that is not like few years, but like... not very long). Is it true? If it is, can anyone tell me when this.. er, Zerg-like design came into picture?

Starshade17 (talk) 15:38, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Naturally your question is rather relevant to my previous edit of the article that gave the release years for Alien, the Tyranids, and the Zerg. Although I can't really prove it (though I'm sure someone can), the info' on the internet seems to support the notion that tyranids were very much alike the way they are today early on. Consider the following links:

A seller's page featuring vintage box art and sprues. In particular observe the "Zerg-like" Tyranid in the background lower left quadrant of the "Epic: Hive War" box art.

[[1]] "Hive War (1995), which featured the Tyranid"

What this all suggests to me is the Tyranids where Tyranids at least as early as 1995, which was three years before the release of Starcraft. 76.111.80.228 (talk) 02:56, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the links. They do look slightly humanoid, and considering the bipedal aspect, I think it's safe to assume that the Tyranids "evolved" form the original designs too. Oh, in case you mistake my meaning, I'm not saying that the design of Tyranids is a copycat of Zerg. But it seems possible that the Tyranids and the Zerg affected each other mutually. I know this might outrage the Warhammer fans, but I'm only saying that it's possible.

Thanks for the links again.

Starshade17 (talk) 12:04, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Chovin's Edit

Chovin deleted the following text "(though the Zerg is presumably based upon the Tyranids, as Tyranids can be traced back as early as 1987, while the game Starcraft, which also includes elements of design comparable in the Terran races of both game universes, was not released until 1998; likewise although the movie Alien from 1979 certainly pre-dated the Tyranids, and provided inspiration for the Tyranids, the Tyranid concept is, arguably, a degree more developed as a race rather than just a scourge)" with the note "Only speculation". It annoys me slightly that he made no effort to discuss this edit on the discussion page. But, it's not like it isn't true, which is exactly why I sought to mitigate the speculation with words like "presumably" and "arguably", and also the use of parentheses, so people would not mistake the words as gospel.

I'd like to point out that my edit was from "though the Zerg was likely based upon the Tyranids" which was even more presumptive while putting on airs of uninformed certainty. Likewise I made sure to add the dates of release so the speculation was at least supportable in fact. For copyright law purposes those would be the essential details (if a copyright judge would have to rule one way or another which I don't think they would).

This is relevant to Tyranid public interest because it is a question on many people's minds. (Indeed it was on mine, which was what led me to look up the release dates in the first place.) There are many who heard of the Zerg long before they heard of Tyranids (if even they have yet heard of Tyranids). Many of these people just assume the Tyranids are a rip off of the Zerg, which even if the Zerg are not a rip off of the Tyranids the reverse certainly can not be true. 76.111.80.228 (talk) 04:07, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Starship Troopers' Bugs

The previous chapter I added to the discussion page made me also think as long as we're drawing comparisons the Bugs of Robert A. Heinlein's Starship Troopers (1959) certainly pre-dated the Tyranids by three decades. Although I don't believe the Arachnids (Bug (Starship Troopers)) of the bookd resemble the ones in the movie altogether very much. 76.111.80.228 (talk) 04:07, 27 September 2008 (UTC)