Talk:Ahir

I don't find anything in the article which is unreferenced.wikipedia must come out with points of doubt raised over the article.Holywarrior 07:05, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Abhira/Ophir

(source: History of Antiquity – By Max Dunker volume IV).

With Phoenicia the Indians enjoyed trade from the earliest times. In the tenth century B.C., Soloman of Israel and Hiram of Tyre sent ships to India, whence they carried away ivory, sandalwood, apes, peacocks, gold, silver, precious stones, etc., which they purchased from the tribe of Ophir. Now Ptolemy says there was a country called Abhira at the mouth of the River Indus. This shows that some people called Abhir must have been living there in those days. We find a tribe called the “Abhir” still living in Kathyawar, which must, therefore, be the Ophir tribe mentioned above. Christian Lassen (1800-1876) author of Indische Alterthumskunde vol I p. 354, thinks “Ophir” was a seaport on the south west coast of India. Mrs. Manning says it was situated on the western coast of India.

Among the things sent by the Hindus to Solomon and Hiram were peacocks. Now, these birds were nowhere to be found in those days except in India, where they have existed from the earliest times. “We frequently meet in old Sanskrit poetry with sentences like these: ‘Peacocks unfolding in glittering glory all their green and gold; ‘peacocks dancing in wild glee at the approach of rain;’ peacocks around palaces glittering on the garden walls.’ Ancient sculptures, too show the same delight in peacocks, as may be seen, for instance, in graceful bas-reliefs on the gates of Sanchi or in the panels of an ancient palace in Central India, figured in Colonel Tod’s Rajastathan p. 405. “The word for peacock in Hebrew is universally admitted to be foreign; and Gesenius, Sir Emerson Tennent, and Max Muller appear to agree with Christian Lassen in holding that this word as written in Kings and Chronicles is derived from the Sanskrit language.

With regard to ivory, it was largely used in India, Assyria, Egypt, Greece and Rome. Elephants are indigenous in India and Africa, and ivory trade must be either of Indian origin or African. But the elephants were scarcely known to the ancient Egyptians, and C Lassen decides that elephants were neither used nor tamed in ancient Egypt. In ancient India, they were largely used and tamed. All the kings processions and battles have elephants mentioned in them. The elephant is the emblem of royalty and a sign of rank and power. The god Indra, too has his ‘Airawat.’ The Sanskrit name for domestic elephant is ibha, and in the bazaars of India ibha was the name by which the elephant’s tusks were sold. In ancient Egypt, ivory was known by the name of ebu. source[1]Holywarrior 16:10, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Abhira Surabhira disambiguation

In sanskrit two words are often mixed like Krishna and Arjuna are together referred as Krishnarjuna as one word.Similarly Suras and Abhira are referred as Surabhira.But not only the words writers have also wrongly attributed sins of Suras on Surabhira and hence Abhiras had wrongly been indicted for doings which they never did.Holywarrior 16:48, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

cintamani-prakara-sadmasu kalpavriksha- lakshavrteshu surabhir abhipaalayantam lakshmi-sahasra-sata-sambhrama-sevyamanam govindam aadi-purusham tam aham bhajami

[Brahma-samhita]

"Lord Krishna is situated in a spiritual abode made of transcendental gems. In that abode he is surrounded by millions of desire fulfilling trees (kalpa-vriksha), and he takes pleasure in tending the divine cows. He is always being served with great reverence and affection by hundreds of thousands of devotees. To that Supreme Lord, who is always trying to satisfy the senses of the cows, and who is the original person, I offer my worship." 17:07, 14 June 2006 (UTC)Holywarrior 17:07, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

lakshavriteshu surabhir abhipalayantam [2]Holywarrior 17:09, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Ahir/Ahirs merger

Don't merge retain this page as different,this is full of references whereas other is full of opinions.Holy---+----Warrior 11:06, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

What references are you talking about. There is absolutely no proof that Ahirs and other groups are really descended from the ancient Yadavs. SImilarly there is no way you can claim that Mauryas and Guptas were Ahirs (who may have not even been present then). It is far more likely that Jats / Ahirs / Gujars are descended from migrants who came to India after the fall of the Gupta Empire and mxed with local tribes. THat would account for the low social position of the AHirs. Regarding the other groups in SOuth India / Maharashtra, there is no proof that they are related to Ahirs or any proof of Yadava descent. Wikipedia really needs to check on contributors like Holy warrior who give a version of hsitroy as they want it to be rather than facts / proper historical research quoting genetic studies.(unsigned comments from user:203.200.12.4 )

You need to check both the pages Abhira and Yadav,go through the talks and content.You will get all the references you want to read. You need to specify what you mean by It is far more likely that Jats / Ahirs / Gujars are descended from migrants who came to India after the fall of the Gupta Empire and mxed with local tribes,We are not here to entertain your Likely,versions. It is far more likely that Jats / Ahirs / Gujars are descended from migrants who came to India after the fall of the Gupta Empire and mxed with local tribes. THat would account for the low social position of the AHirs.---- You really need a proper dose from my side ,Read the citations well I hope it goes down your spine(perhaps you possess it),Infact Guptas themselves has been referred to as Abhir.Wikipedia really needs to check on contributors like Holy warrior who give a version of hsitroy as they want it to be rather than facts / proper historical research quoting genetic studies---Yes you are rather welcome to raise questions on any of my edits But advised to assume Good Faith.Your rather uncivil comments does not reflect it.Holy -- + -- Warrior 09:33, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I stand by my comments. Iwent through your links. You have not presented any proof that the ABhiras are todays Ahirs. Or that Mauryas and Guptas were Ahirs. ALso there is no proof stating that Ahirs or any other group claiming to be Yadavs are descended from the ancient Yadavas in the Mahabharata.(—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.200.12.4 (talk • contribs).

Reply----->No credible person till date has doubted abhira being called Ahir(A word not found in any scriptures),still I would sugest you to go through this link [3],[4].We are not here to run a tutorial class for clarifying all the nonesense you put here.Holy -- + -- Warrior 12:33, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Reply---->If you go through any school book of sanskrit between class 6 to 12 in India, in the section of Ap-bhramsh (mis-spelled words), like attalika now called as atari, you can see Ahir is apbhramsh of correct work Abhir. This should be good enough proof for all, who recevied his/her school education, with sanskit as subject, in India. I hope, everybody is listening here. Raj 09 Oct 2007

I have merged the two pages.Another page editors are welcome here.Plz quote good citations (PLZ. do not ask for citation of facts which we all are aware of and on which all agree.).Thanx Holy |Warrior 15:25, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

get your facts right before writing something as riduculous as this. Abhirs were arch rivals of the Ahirs, because the sound the same they aren't the same gyan.org has a full indepth history of yadav clans. the research carried out by max muller tried to diminish indian history with his contradictory lies. wikipedia should take this article off.

I do understand your sentiments and respect them, but it is always better, that you go through the webpages carefully and try to understand the meaning of all sentences(it is always better to ask for some help), i also read the gyan.org several times, but never found the arch rival concept between Abhir and Ahir, and the reason the simple, one can not be an arch rival of oneself. Is it not so logical dear. Raj 09 Oct 2007

Move to Ahir

This page should be moved to Ahir, the singular world. The plural Ahirs should be a redirect.

Some administrator should please do this.--Jahilia 20:57, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

AHIR, JAT & GURJARS ARE BASICALLY DHANGARS KNWON AS CHANDRAVANSHI'S COMMONLY KNOWN AS GWALA/SHEPHERED-DHANGARS.

Chandravanshi's are known as Gwala/Gadaria/Shephereds. Because Lord Krishna was the shephereds. And we are all knwon as Gwala/Shephereds/Ahirs and very commonly known as Dhangars / Neekhars.

Earlier peoples known and recognised by their linage like Suryavanshi's, Chandravanshi's, Agnivanshi's but later on they adopted the name as Rajputs.

Originally we are SHEPHEREDS / GWALA known as (Chandravanshi' or Somavanshi's and in some part of country knwon as (Yaduvanshi's a part of Chandravanshi's). As regards to Gotra's - Chandel is a main gotra and again it is further divied into sub gotras e.g. Chandiya Chandel, Rahiya Chandel, Guiya Chandel, Mankiwale Chandel, Basedewale Chandel and Chandrayan.

A large part of Chandels are in PAL COMMUNITY which is known as PAL KSHATRIYA / PAL SHEPHEREDS.

We all have to project ourselves as CHANDRAVANSHI'S ...

MAIN STARS OF CHANDRAVANSHI'S OR GWALA-SHEPHEREDS ;

1) SHEPHERED SAMRAT - BHARAT 2) " " - LORD KRISHNA 2) " " - MAHARAJA YASHWANT RAO HOLKAR 3) " " - DEVI AHILYA BAI HOLKAR 4) " " - POET KALIDAS 5) " " - SANT KANAKDAS 6) " " - CHANDRAGUPT MOURYA 7) " " - SAMRAT ASHOK

Many more stars in Chandravansham. For more detail see the wikipedia.org (DHANGAR COLOUM)