Talk:Henry of Castile the Senator

Hi, my source gives a different account of Henry and Fredericks early life. In brief outline: Frederick traveled to Africa where he took up with the Muslim King of Tunisia, then went to Italy where he fought for Manfred against Charles, then returned to Tunis. Henry went to France (not England) where he made friends with Charles (his first cousin), he lent Charles a large sum of money for his Italian campaign against Manfred -- Henry was never paid back, but grudingly accepted the post of Sentaor of Rome in 1267. The source is Steven Runciman, Sicilan Vespers, ISBN 0521437741 pg. 99 (you might be able to read it on Amazon look-inside, search on "Infant Henry"). I was going to make additions but realized it was a major change in the narrative and wanted to get your feedback on sources first. Stbalbach 04:55, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Bizarre! Parsons is a very well-respected historian, so I followed his lead. According to him, it was Enrique who was the mercenary, he spent time in England and France, went off to Italy, and later served as regent for Castile. Fadrique spent most of his time in prison, where his brother Alfonso had him executed. I haven't been able to get ahold of Antonio Ballesteros Beretta's biography of Alfonso, Alfonso X El Sabio, to double-check. Missi

I'll ask Adam Bishop if he has any thoughts, he has access to some good sources. Stbalbach 18:54, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Unfortunately I don't know anything about this guy, although I saw the article yesterday and I was wondering about his connection to Conradin. Both of Beretta's books are in the library here, but if they're in Spanish I can't help you :) Adam Bishop 20:00, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It is strange, Runcimans and Parsons versions are so completely different. In my mind, Parsons account sounds like a mashup of Henry and Frederick. Runciman goes in to a lot of detail about Infant Fredericks life and role, and Henry and Frederick have a lot of interactions in Italy.. did Runciman make all that up? I mean there are pages and pages about Frederick and Henry, Sicilian Vespers is considered one of the most well known and popular books about the era, I would find it hard to believe such a major mistake, and key to the whole story, has gone unchallenged since 1954 when it was published. Yeah Henry broke ranks with Charles and allied himself with Conradian, who had the support of the Ghibellines, he was upset at not getting paid back by Charles and had greater designs of his own, Henry was a key player in the events of the Battle of Tagliacozzo, he was the commander. Stbalbach 03:14, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Well Runciman is sometimes known to have a fanciful imagination, but he also usually gives a lot of sources...does he give any in this case? Adam Bishop 14:52, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Runciman's sources on Henry: E. Jordan, L'Allemagne et l'Italie aux XIIe et XIIIe Siècles (G. Glotz), Histoire Générale: Histoire du Moyen Âge, v. IV, I. Paris, 1939. pp. 370–1, 385–6. Saba Malaspina Historia Sicula, pp. 833–6, 842–4. K. Hampe, Geschichte Konradins von Hohenstaufen. Innsbruck, 1894. pp. 111–50 On Frederick: Jordan 396–7. See also this history, which seems to agree with Runciman: both brothers became adventurers, Henry was long imprisoned by the Angevins but at last released to return to Castile in the 1290s, Frederick was allowed to escape from Sicily to Tunis c. 1270, returned to Castile by 1272, and was imprisoned and executed in 1277. This says that Henry left Castile when he realized his rebellion was doomed, while Frederick was exiled for unknown reasons in 1260. This page says that Frederick and Frederick Lancia (who escaped with him from Sicily) fought for the Tunisians in the 9th Crusade, which agrees well with Runicman's narrative. Ferdinand Gregorovius also agrees with Runciman that Frederick was a follower of Manfred and, at the urging of Conrad Capece, invaded Sicily from Tunis and declared for Conradin in 1267. There's also some online correspondence of Clement IV that may be helpful to the Latin readers. In summary, I think Runciman's version of events is amply justified. Choess 01:40, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Aha! It turns out that the events described by Parsons and by Runciman sort of interleave in Henry's career. See this message by Parsons. I am rewriting the article accordingly. Choess 04:00, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Henry of Castile and his brother Fadrique went as knights errant to the court of Sultan Al Mustansir in Tunis, to help him against his enemies, Baibars in Egypt, and the menacing Mongols already in Syria. Al Mustansir was subject to Manfred of Hohenstaufen, King of Sicily. Both princes, Henry and Fadrique visited Manfred in Palermo. It appears that Henry, and Al Mustansir attacked the Island of Pantelleria and the port of Sciacca in Sicily with a fleet in 1267, against the rule of Charles d'Anjou. Henry could be the author of the famous tale of chivalry "Amadis de Gaula", the first great novel in spanish language. There is plenty of astonishing coincidences between the events of his own life, and the tales in "Amadis". Nevertheless, a tangible proof is needed, although he was known in Italy as a fine poet, and it seems credible that he wrote this novel of more than thousand pages while imprisoned in Canosa di Puglia, and later in Castel del Monte, between 1268 and 1292, according to Ferdinand Gregorovius. "Amadís" is key in the history of Spanish literature as the inspiration for Cervantes' Don Quijote de la Mancha.Santiago sevilla (talk) 22:45, 1 November 2008 (UTC) It could be interesting for historians to know that Infante Fadrique of Castille (1224-1277) married Catalina Dukás (1248-1294), daughter of the famous Despot of Epirus Nikephoros Komnenos Dukás.Santiago sevilla (talk) 17:24, 10 November 2008 (UTC)