Talk:Zorro

As a courtesy to other editors, it is a Wikipedia guideline to sign your posts on talk pages, user talk pages, and WikiProject pages. To do so, simply add four tildes (~~~~) at the end of your comments. Your user name or IP address (if you are not logged in) and the date will be then be automatically added along with a timestamp when you save your comment. Signing your comments helps people to find out who said something and provides them with a link to your user/talk page (for further discussion). For further info, read Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines. Thank you.

---

First thread

The following should be deleted: "In the Disney television series starring Guy Williams, Zorro's alter ego, Diego de la Vega, differs markedly from the character Diego Vega in McCulley's original. In The Curse of Capistrano, Diego is known to be a deadly swordsman who masquerades as a decadent aristocrat. Everyone knows he has the ability to do what Zorro does, but nobody imagines he would care enough to bother." In McCulley's The Curse of Capistrano, Diego is not known to be a deadly swordsman; everyone does not know he has the ability to do what Zorro does.68.215.244.79 02:30, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Basement? I thought it was a cave!

By the way, it has been claiimed that the original Don Diego Vega Zorro has never been played by a Latino performer in a US made film or TV series. Is that correct?

Yeah, say that to Antonio Banderas. --Sharkb 19:25, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

• And to Guy Williams, whose real name was Armando Joseph Catalano, which sounds at least a tad Hispanic by ancestry. Wahkeenah 00:12, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Zorro also refers to sheer farhad of the Lower Barrarah who helped kick out the evil Montrodolleh from Barrah

I think its more accurate to say the first Zorro was never played by an Hispanic actor. If it was then I had no idea Douglas Fairbanks was Hispanic... HuronKing

Williams was Italian. Banderas did not play Vega, Anthony Hopkins did.

Henry Darrow, definitely Latino, played Diego in Zorro And Son, admittedly a sitcom, but US, live-action, & authorized. Ted Watson (talk) 20:39, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Dénouement location

Should not the character's "dénouement" be at the end of the article, not the beginning? Maybe some of Zorro's adventures from other movies and stories could be described loosely beforehand.

Inspiration for the character?

"Zorro became key inspirations for The Phantom, Batman, Green Arrow, Doc Savage, and other non-superpower endowed pulp and comic-strip action heroes."

Why is any of this under Inspiration for the character? And really "non-superpower endowed" what does that mean?

Skills and Resources?

What is the point of this section? It looks like it was copied from and RPG sourcebook. Suggest it be deleted.--Lepeu1999 15:06, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

stub

This article says next to nothing about Zorro's life and feats. Someone who is more acquainted should add more about the character Pictureuploader 23:53, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Was there a real Zorro? His name was Estanislao. He was a great American hero who served God and served his people by leading a revolution, organizing an army and training his people to fight the Mexicans in California. His name is used in Stanislaus County and River in California. The Walt Disney stories, and the Wikipedia article, have entirely missed the purpose of Estanislao's life. He was not a bandit, thief or renegade. He was an inspiration. What a shame that the Wikipedia article is so wrong. Many of us were raised hearing Estanislao stories as children in California. Estanislao was a Yokuts Indian who revolted against the Mission system that was responsible for a drastically declining population of California Indians. Estanislao's life is documented in "The Stanislaus Indian Wars" by Gray and is depicted in a historical novel "Estanislao - Warrior, Man of God."

Anti-Zorro?

The page refers to The Mask of Zorro as "an anti-Zorro playing against tradition." This is not mentioned on the movie's page. Does anyone know what is meant by this? Ace of Sevens 08:55, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree this does not seem correct. "A variation on the Zorro tradition." perhaps - though is it that far from 1925's Don Q ? -- Beardo 05:39, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe it refers to the Banderas character. Regardless, it should be clarified. --D'Olivier 19:41, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I do not understand that either. 69.3.250.96 23:05, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Zorro and Don Diego nicknames

Is this section really necessary? This article should talk about the character, and how the character is treated in various media. If no one objects, I'll delete this section in about a week. --D'Olivier 19:39, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Zorro: Generation Z

• Zorro: Generation Z will begin in 2008. 81.48.193.127 12:08, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Ownership edits

See Talk:Bran Mak Morn#Ownership edits. Nareek 12:26, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

• As I understand it, the first Zorro-related copyright will expire in 2028, 70 years after character-creator Johnston McCulley's death. See this wikipage: [1] Mdiamante 23:10, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

In the United States, all works published before 1923 are in the public domain. See Copyright Term and the Public Domain in the United States. Nareek 00:00, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the input, Nareek. Your linked Cornell thing shows that the Wiki article is incorrect in reading "in current law, the copyright in a published work expires in all countries when all of the following conditions are satisfied [...] 1) The work was created and first published before January 1, 1923, or at least 95 years before January 1 of the current year, whichever is later; 2) The last surviving author died at least 70 years before January 1 of the current year." Provided the Cornell article is correct, the word "all" should be "any". I am making that change now. Mdiamante 03:00, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

"Any" is not quite right either; a work may be in copyright in one country and out of copyright in another. Nareek 03:28, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

True, and I left out that the "public domain" Wiki article does say "Copyrights are more complex than patents; generally, in current law, the copyright in a published work expires in all countries when any of the following conditions are satisfied (except Colombia, Cote d'ivoire, Guatemala, Honduras, Mexico, Samoa, and Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, on all these countries are fair use)[2]". I had omitted these bits earlier for clarity's sake, but there they are. Mdiamante 04:45, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Article desperately needs cites!

Just about every other sentence in this article makes some assertion that needs a cite, yet I don't think that there is even a single cite in this article!
Please see Wikipedia:Citing sources, especially the section on "Why sources should be cited", and Wikipedia:Attribution. -- 201.50.254.243 03:31, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

The Franchise

This new franchise has been handled very poorly. The continuity between the first and second movies is practically nonexistent. Didn't Alejandro Murrieta and Elena De La Vega get married and have a daughter at the end of the first film? The second movie starts and they all of a sudden have a ten year old son and no mention of a daughter. Also what's the deal with Alejandro Murrieta changing his name to "De La Vega" this is very un-Spanish. Plus everyone knew that the Anthony Hopkins character was Diego De La Vega. Is everyone just suppose to pretend that Antonio Banderas is now Don Diego??? NathanielPoe 18:44, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

No, the baby born at the end of Mask is Joaquin. And Murrieta changes his name so as not to be identified with his outlaw brother. He probably claimed he was a Spanish-raised Vega family member or something. Mdiamante 02:25, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Fair use criteria

The use of images not in compliance with our fair-use criteria or our policy on nonfree content is not appropriate, and the images have been removed. Please do not restore them. — Moe ε 03:32, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Television

In this section it is mentioned two animations: "The Legend of Zorro (快傑ゾロ), 1992" and "Kaiketsu Zorro (1996)". 'They are the same' 1996 anime from Katsumi Minoguchi (and not Minogu Katsuki) and not from NHK/Mushi but from Toho and Ashi Productions (according to wikipedia-japan). It was indeed NHK who broadcasted the series in Japan. (All this to say the information is repeated and could induce people to a mistake.) 217.129.246.217 13:06 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Republic's Zorro-esque serials

I previously placed this on the talk page of the Zorro template, but have now found the film list in the main article itself, and have decided this may be a more appropriate venue, as this list should be affected as well. Does anybody else think that Republic's serials that used their Zorro costumes, etc., but not the names should be recognized here, since most of the acknowledged serials weren't really any closer to McCulley's work? In fact, the officially Zorro-less The Vigilantes Are Coming, with its 1844 California setting, is closer than any except Zorro's Fighting Legion, but it is set in central Mexico, not California, albeit during the Spanish colonial era. Most that use the name are essentially indistinguishable from Man with the Steel Whip and Don Daredevil Rides Again. Indeed, you could change the title of Zorro's Black Whip to The Black Whip, remove the big credit "card" for McCulley/Zorro, and nobody would take it to be anything but another unlicensed rip-off, just like those two. Don't misunderstand me, I do mean separated from the other titles and labelled as unauthorized, but acknowledged here at least, because they are as faithful as most of the same company's legitimate (or at least properly licensed) Zorro serials. Ted Watson (talk) 20:39, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I notice that the TV series Queen of Swords is listed under "Appearances in media/Television" while being much the same as the serials discussed above: that is, the character is neither Zorro nor a Vega, despite great similarities otherwise (in the case of those serials, they greatly resemble most of Republic's Zorro serials which are more like the masked gunslinging cowboy "the Durango Kid" played by Charles Starrett in a series of Saturday matinee programmer features from Columbia Pictures in the 1940s, rather than the more familiar late 18th/early 19th century swordsman). I make the motion that Queen should be moved to "Pop culture," and the officially non-Zorro Republic serials be added there as well. The floor is now open to debate! --Ted Watson (talk) 21:40, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Name question

I have never read the pulp story so I will defer to someone who has. But every movie I have seen Zorro was never called "Senior Zorro" ("Mr.Fox" except by a Priest or something) but he was mostly referred to as "El Zorro" ("The Fox") or just plain Zorro. The Batmaniac —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bernard ferrell (talk • contribs) 18:28, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

missing buzzword

Swashbuckler.
--Jerome Potts (talk) 06:33, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

mix of articles content

Shouldn't the stuff in the "fictional history" section rather be in The Curse of Capistrano article?
--Jerome Potts (talk) 06:40, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

The Alain Delon incarnation

Of possible interest: in the 1975 film starring Alain Delon, Don Diego witnesses the oppression and brutality inflicted upon the common folk, and is revolted by it. But among those poor people, especially the children, exists a legend, perhaps even a belief, the hope, of an avenger/liberator, possibly a phantom-like spirit, named Zorro who leaves his "Z" signature here and there as a warning/threat. Diego elects to become that man; the costume is his own creation, the legend not having specified the character's appearance.
--Jerome Potts (talk) 07:13, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

What really inspires Diego to become Zorro in this version is the assassination of a friend in a position of some authority, while on his way to investigate reports of corruption in a Spanish colony in South America (rather than the usual California). As the friend dies, he extracts from Diego a promise not to kill anyone. He goes to the colony, impersonating the friend—as a fop, of course—and fighting the local leaders disguised as Zorro. Anybody have a citable source synopsizing this film accurately? It is already in the article, described briefly as "Zorro meets the spaghetti Western," but a better fit to that are a pair (at least; two are all the Leonard Maltin book describes, and BTW he also gives the SA locale for the Delon film) 1960s films starring Frank Latimore. I'll get my copy and add them. Ted Watson (talk) 22:21, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Tatlong Baraha

In Metro Manila Film Festival film entry "Tatlong Baraha", fictional Filipino Superheroes Leon Guerrero, Julio Valiente, and Zigomar, collectively known as Tatlong Baraha (Three Cards) were resembled to Zorro. Zigomar, a character played by Filipino actor Maynard Lapid, was strongly resembled to Zorro. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Firerat45 (talk • contribs) 16:09, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Queen of Swords ?

Why is this under Appearances in media ... Television? As far as I know this was not a Zorro show or even a spin-off. If it is not related to Zorro, maybe it should go under Influences or Popular Culture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Orzzo (talk • contribs) 09:45, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Just yesterday I raised this question and made your second suggestion, along with pointing out its implications to my already existing question, in updating my thread "Republic's Zorro-esque serials." I ask anybody who's interested to please deal with this concept there.

Influences ?

Green Arrow? Why is this guy here? I get he's got the whole millionaire by day masked "swashbuckling" vigilante by night thing going on, but is that it? By the time this guy was created that was already becoming a staple of the medium. While with Batman the influences was more eminent - especially since we have Kane's word saying so - Zorro may have been the last thing on Weisinger and Papp's minds when they came up with Green Arrow. Batman was now the new template, and obviously Robin Hood the main influence, not to mention there were already a handful Arrow themed heroes in the industry already.

I question listing Doc Savage and some of the others too? Maybe listing the thematic and stylistic "firsts" Zorro may have brought to the pulps, comics, superhero etc. would be better then a list of characters that may have only been indirectly influenced.Orzzo (talk) 10:26, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

The All-Story Weekly cover as the main Zorro image?

While it's important to know where the character came from and how he was first depicted, is that the best representation of how the character is/was known, what it has become? So far, has anyone ever gone back to that representation of the character? McCulley did not, he abandoned it for good. And wile the image is important, it should appear somewhere, shouldn't the main image of this article be something more easilly recognizable as Zorro? The one that McCulley himself would come to promote? The link to Curse of Capistrano article uses that same image (and more appropriately so, I think) since that is how he was described in that story. But he is no longer described that way. Can we put something here that people now (and by "now" I mean since 1920) recognize as Zorro? Orzzo (talk) 11:06, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree. There are several other images that better represent today's "typical" Zorro. →Wordbuilder (talk) 15:08, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

I'd suggest this image since it is how Zorro Productions, Inc. is currently choosing to license and portray the character, and it's a pretty standard image of the character full body. The image has been scaled to the right size but needs to be put in the proper place with the proper fair use rationale so it dosn't get deleted. File:ZorroDynamiteComicsMayhew.jpg