Talk:DIRECT

 This article incorporates public domain material from websites or documents of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

This article was nominated for deletion on 7 November 2006. The result of the discussion was keep.

Comments

In the first paragraph: "Developed independently from NASA, DIRECT proposes launch vehicles different from those NASA is developing in its Project Constellation." This sentence is not entirely accurate. DIRECT was not developed independently from NASA. It was a NASA concept. What the "DIRECT Team" is doing is really dusting off that concept and showing that it is a better alternative to Ares I/V. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.33.208.164 (talk) 18:51, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

This article really needs to make it clear that DIRECT has not been proposed by NASA and is not in any way an official part of Project Constellation. MLilburne 14:59, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Reply: Actually, DIRECT was originally a study conducted by NASA, themselves. They just chose Ares instead.

What is a cryo stage? There isn't any link or explanation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.85.230.103 (talk) 16:01, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Removed categories

I have removed this article from the categories "NASA" and "Space Shuttle program," and removed the Constellation infobox. I am concerned that the article's inclusion in these categories may be misleading; I've dealt with what I've found, but there may be other instances.MLilburne 15:34, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Neutral POV

This article is informative and factual, but comes off too much as a DIRECT fan page. Maybe if someone could tone down the boosterism (haha) a bit... Monomalo 09:56, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Criticism

I removed this from the article for cleanup and citation:

Despite the changes made on DIRECT 2.0, ATK "Safe, Simple, Soon" website advocating for Ares I and Ares V SDLV has published a so-called "mythbusters" section. This section quotes Dr Doug Stanley criticism made about Direct 1.0, without having asked permission nor opinion to Direct designer.

The entire article needs work, but this paragraph jumped out at me as being a bit attackish, or rough. It can probably go back in after some polishing up. Hiberniantears (talk) 19:31, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

this article was obviously plagiarized

Search for "EDS". This article was clearly plagiarized and plagiarized badly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.222.192.193 (talk) 02:17, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Be more precise, if this article was "clearly plagiarized", give us source and use the regular WP:COPYVIO procedure. Scorpene (talk) 08:16, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Rewrite centered on DIRECT 2.0

It just jumped out at me while reading this article on space.com that this article should really be rebuilt around (or more substantially around) 2.0, since that is the actual proposal's current form. I'm not really certain the best way to do that, as all the information is currently important, but the information surrounding 2.0 should certainly be at the top of the article. I thought I would bring this up to get others thinking about it as well. For example, the order of things should probably follow: "Direct is an alternative space launch system yada, yada, yada. In its current form, Direct 2.0, the system consists of yada, yada, yada". Naturally, all references to "yada" should be replaced with the specifics of 2.0. Food for thought. Hiberniantears (talk) 12:55, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

I (see third entry on www.directlauncher.com/people.htm to see who I am regarding the DIRECT effort) am slowly performing a complete re-write of the entire article to bring all details up-to-date and into line with the current baseline configurations for the DIRECT proposal as at October 2008. As I write this I have completely updated the first two sections thru "Safer, Simper, Sooner" and will proceed with "Origins" etc. Monday. Kraisee/Ross Tierney 01:46, 20 October 2008 (ET)

DIRECT 2.0 Team Criticisms

I removed a section by this name under WP:BLP, which demands immediate removal of negative material about living persons which lacks a reliable source. If sources can be found, some of this material might be restored. http://www.insideksc.com does not look like it would meet our sourcing requirements, since we can't use blogs to talk about people. However that site *does* appear to link to some newspaper articles. If someone has the patience, those articles might be cited directly. EdJohnston (talk) 04:44, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

FYI, there is a personal spat going on between myself (and therefore the entire DIRECT effort) and a few of the folk from that site. This isn't the first time this sort of thing has happened and I'm sure it won't be the last. The IP's listed in the history for all of the "unpleasant" additions were all consistent with a known member from that site who is based in Atlanta. I would like to strongly encourage continued moderation of the article by the regular moderators here. I'm unfamiliar with the options, but if there is an even stronger level of restrictions regarding editing, I would strongly encourage they be implemented at the earliest possible opportunity please. Kraisee/Ross Tierney 01:37, 20 October 2008 (ET)

Specifications

Ckatz noted on the editing history that a source of the specification page was needed. kraisee is in fact one of the architects of the DIRECT proposal, so he is a legitimate source for the updated specifications.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ronsmytheiii (talk • contribs)

Please read WP:OR. This information should come from a reliable secondary source, instead of from personal knowledge. This information simply needs to be verifiable from another source. Grant (talk) 00:25, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. There is no way to verify that the user is (or is not) who he or she claims to be. That is why Wikipedia requires verifiable sources, so that others can confirm the data. --Ckatz^chat_spy 09:34, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Not sure if it would help or not, but if ID needs to be confirmed by a moderator, please e-mail info@directlauncher.com (as listed on the parent website for DIRECT) and I would be happy to confirm that, if nothing else, the site is indeed operated by me Kraisee/Ross Tierney 02:00, 20 October 2008 (ET)

Thanks for the contributions, and for being up front about your association with the group. I have added some tags for various forms of cleanup; please don't take these the wrong way, as it would apply to any situation where a person involved in the subject becomes a primary contributor. Cheers. --Ckatz^chat_spy 07:50, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I understand, it is very easy to abuse the position, so that is a fair SOP. I will continue to edit the article today and will continue to try my best to keep it impartial while still explaining all the details and aims. I don't intend to remove the negative bits, but I might try to correct the grammar and flow a little. I hope people will be willing to edit/correct my work wherever necessary. Kraisee/Ross Tierney 10:36, 20 October 2008 (ET)

Can the COI and/or Neutrality tags be removed yet? Just looking to remove some clutter. Hiberniantears (talk) 20:05, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

copy editing

Evidently I'm not real enough to edit the main page, but if I was, I would remove the trailing 's' in the [space shuttle solid rocket boosters] link, so that it would work. Cwmagee (talk) 23:29, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

As a non-engineer, the phrasing of schedules slipping "to the right" threw me a bit when I ran across it. Rephrasing that would make the article more readable.

Order of sections: Advantages after Design?

Advantages and disadvantages should certainly be after the Design section, no? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.252.208.127 (talk) 04:02, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Nothing about Mars Direct?

I find it difficult to believe that the name "DIRECT" is completely by accident, considering the Mars Direct plans were based around the identical concepts. This isn't entirely surprising, given Martin's involvement in MD planning. Yet this obvious historical link is not mentioned by anyone in DIRECT, or at least not in this article? Maury Markowitz (talk) 15:01, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

OR? --GW_Simulations_{User Page | Talk} 15:25, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh puh-leeez, Mars Direct is not OR. Maury Markowitz (talk) 15:33, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

No, but your comment about the names being similar is... --GW_Simulations_{User Page | Talk} 15:43, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

I've always been under the impression that this is actually the case, but I don't have a source for it. It seems obvious to me that Mars Direct and Direct are closely related, but we need the source to avoid a WP:OR issue. Hiberniantears (talk) 17:15, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

My understanding was that the name was derived from it being a more direct SDLV than Ares (ie using more of the same systems as STS rather than modified or new ones). Not sure though. --GW_Simulations_{User Page | Talk} 17:17, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

That too... I thought it was a little of both. Hiberniantears (talk) 17:27, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

The two ideas are complete un-related. Just to confuse things further, Zubrin wanted to call his booster 'Aries'! The 'DIRECT' proposal is named because it attempts to reuse the shuttle stack 'directly', in contrast with Ares which alters the stack and ground support facilities considerably, at considerable cost. 86.166.177.171 (talk) 16:14, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Popular Mechanics coverage

• Joe Pappalardo (January 9, 2009). "NASA Renegades Pitch Obama Team New Post-Shuttle Plan".

Workforce

The whole workforce section is basically a plea to NASA to let people keep their jobs. I'm betting this section was written by someone who's future in NASA is in limbo because of Ares. "thousands of these knowledgeable and skilled people" "And such employment would keep those valuable skills and knowledge within the agency" are prime examples of this.24.114.252.237 (talk) 07:53, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

DESIGN Jupiter 232

Regarding the exploded view of the Jupiter 232 rocket (see DESIGN section)... In order to reach the moon there would have to be two launches of the Jupiter 232, one with the Jupiter upper stage the second carrying the Orion capsule and Lunar lander into Earth orbit. As powerful a rocket the Jupiter 232 is it cannot deliver all three elements in one launch.Jalanp2 (talk) 22:01, 12 February 2009 (UTC)