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Albanians

What's the deal with adding Albanians as Epirotes? To my knowledge, Albanians never identify as such, but solely as Albanians, Epirus being equated with Greek irredentism in their minds. I have consequently removed them. --Athenean (talk) 06:02, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What are you talking about? The article is about Epirotes in general, not Greek or Albanian Epirotes. You have no right to remove them.--Sarandioti (talk) 10:22, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry but I don't believe that there is anyone even in Albania that is thinking Ali Pasha as a "famous Epirote" and I don't believe that there is anyone even in Albania that is thinking Beçisht as "part of Epirus". Same with the others. I consequently agree with Athenean. --Factuarius (talk) 14:46, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

People, the definition of the Epirote is "the native inhabitant of Epirus". Weren't they native inhabitants of EPirus? If you dont like that, its your problem. --Sarandioti (talk) 15:21, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Epirus and Epirotes have been hijacked by greek and grecophone historians and ethnologist and consistently portrayed as greek just because they were close to hellenistic influence. This however does not make them greek and has never made them greek. This can be clearly shown even by the ancient hellene writers who never considered epirus or epirotes as greek. Neverthless as Sarandioti stated above, these people were native inhabitants of Epirus and as such were famous as well.--I Pakapshem (talk) 15:29, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Find me some sources that describe Ali, Qemali, Frasheri as "Epirotes", then we can talk, OK? --Athenean (talk) 17:07, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You *actually* want sources that show that they were Epirotes? This is ridiculous. Epirotes is a term that refers to the inhabitants of the region of Epirus. Do you understand that EPIROTES DOES NOT mean GREEKS? Anyone native in EPirus is an Epirote. --Sarandioti (talk) 17:10, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Really? "The Epirotes, better known as Epirote Greeks, are a Greek speaking people..." from The Encyclopedia of Stateless Nations, James Minahan, p. 577 [1]. --Athenean (talk) 17:36, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Some more:[2]. --Athenean (talk) 17:39, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What is the point of that source?(which by the way is written by a greek author. The term Epirote is based on the GEOGRAPHIC AREA OF EPIRUS, not in nationality. Do you understand that? Epirote does not mean greek. Epirote=greek exists only in greek nationalism. Epirote is every native inhabitant of Epirus. --Sarandioti (talk) 17:54, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Your first source is totally POV and hillarious. It actually mentions 280,000 greeks in south albania. Funny fact is that in July 2009 elections the greek minority party took only about 35,000 votes. So I kindly ask you next time to provide us with some WP:RS source, and not greek and totally unreliable sources. --Sarandioti (talk) 18:06, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Like I said, bring sources that describe Ali, Qemali, and Frahseri as "Epirote", then we can talk. I am not interested in your OR. And will you please learn how to indent properly? --Athenean (talk) 18:09, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Athenean this is not OR, or an issue of sources. This is YOu not accepting the definition of EPirote. Epirote is every native inhabitant of Epirus. All of them "fit" the definition of Epirote.--Sarandioti (talk) 18:12, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The sources are 100% reliable. You just don't like them, and have brought none of your own. I am not interested in your OR arguments. This is getting old. --Athenean (talk) 19:59, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

100% reliable? Which one is reliable? The greek one or the 2002 book that speaks about 280,000 greeks in south albania, while the greek minority party got only 30,000 votes in 2009 elections? To you they may seem reliable but not to wikipedia guidelines. Epirote is every indigenous inhabitant of the area of Epirus. Do you disagree? --Sarandioti (talk) 20:04, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This issue is prolonged only because of your irrational nationalism. Every time the same issue. --Sarandioti (talk) 20:05, 15 July 2009 (UTC) Now as usual you are going to wait till you can edit again, in order to not break the 3RR. So please stop recycling your unreliable sources and nationalist tendencies until that time. --Sarandioti (talk) 20:08, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Now you are just repeating the same old OR arguments, as well as engaging in personal attacks and assumptions of bad faith. I've had enough of this nonsense. You have failed to make a case, and this discussion is over. --Athenean (talk) 20:42, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Athenean how hard is it to comprehend that a native inhabitant of epirus irregardles of their ethnicity is an Epirote? It is only but logical. --I Pakapshem (talk) 20:44, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Again you are trying to give false impressions Athenean. You proved nothing. If you dont like the state of the article, start a new one about Greek Epirotes. Have a nice day.--Sarandioti (talk) 20:46, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

@ Athenean: Aigest, Sarandioti, I Pakapshem, a Pristina Kosovar and a Gechingen!? Albanian. This is not contribution, this is an Albanian crusade against you. Is there any way to avoid this demonstration of brutal force in POV-pushing to a wiki article? Just wonder. Sarandioti I told you before and you never answer me: Hitler was born in Oberösterreich but nobody thought of him as "a famous Oberösterreichian" but as a famous German or Austrian. I understand from your user page that you are an Albanian together with the other named and IP editors, as such can you please tell me honestly if there is anyone even in Albania that is considering Ali Pasha a "famous Epirote"? If no, it is the same in Greece, Germany or Ghana. Why really you insisting on that? It is the time to stop this war all over the Epirus related articles and starting to communicate together in well working articles not in battlegrounds. Friedly, --Factuarius (talk) 23:49, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Factuarius I am truly not interested in your OR theories.--Sarandioti (talk) 09:12, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please discuss before major deletings. Is better to all --Factuarius (talk) 09:47, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Check above we have already discussed it. I didn't delete anything, THe sources of Athenean were greek and unreliable, like the one talking about 280,000 greeks in albania, when at the same time in July 2009 the greek minority party was voted by only 30,000 people. So where is the reliability of that source my friend? --Sarandioti (talk) 09:50, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

For God shake there are two ancient sources we have only those for the ancient history of Epirus who else can use? --Factuarius (talk) 09:55, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In the modern geographic area of EPirus, do or do not live albanians, greeks, and aromanians??? WHy did you remove them??? DO you understand that EPirus is NOT inhabited ONLY by greeks?? In fact in the Epirus(that is ALL of epirus) Albanians form the majority. Do you understand that simple fact??--Sarandioti (talk) 09:56, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Revision as of 09:55, 16 July 2009 edit Factuarius (talk \| contribs) 3,461 edits No edit summary ← Previous edit		Revision as of 09:56, 16 July 2009 edit undo Sarandioti (talk \| contribs) 792 edits →‎Albanians Next edit →
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	For God shake there are two ancient sources we have only those for the ancient history of Epirus who else can use? --[[User:Factuarius\|Factuarius]] ([[User talk:Factuarius\|talk]]) 09:55, 16 July 2009 (UTC)		For God shake there are two ancient sources we have only those for the ancient history of Epirus who else can use? --[[User:Factuarius\|Factuarius]] ([[User talk:Factuarius\|talk]]) 09:55, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

			In the modern geographic area of EPirus, do or do not live albanians, greeks, and aromanians??? WHy did you remove them??? DO you understand that EPirus is NOT inhabited ONLY by greeks?? In fact in the Epirus(that is ALL of epirus) Albanians form the majority. Do you understand that simple fact??--[[User:Sarandioti\|Sarandioti]] ([[User talk:Sarandioti\|talk]]) 09:56, 16 July 2009 (UTC)