Talk:Neo-Confucianism

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Past talk

There is a misspelling of the Qin Dynasty. See quote of the text "... It is very related to Confucianists in the Qing Dynasty of China and other dynasties..." I believe this is meant for the "Qin" dynasty which was the unified empire after the Warring States. Qin (246BC to 207BC) preceded Qing(1662 to 1911) by almost 2000 years. Neo-confucianism was at its peak during the Song dynasty(960 to 1276) This should be edited because of the link to the later dyansty.

Second talk

This is a very good article!!!Neo-Confucianism was NOT the mainstream during the Song Dynasty. It was treated as heresy. It was during the Yuan Dynasty when Neo-Confucianism was taken for the Imperial examination for the first time. That made Neo-Confucianism gain strength. I think it became the mainstream during the Ming Dynasty. --Nanshu 03:17, 12 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I've modified to reflex this. --Menchi 03:55, 12 Oct 2003 (UTC)

If your "Neo-Confucianism" is merely "Dao Xue" (which was used by Zhu Xi and his fellow scholars for referring to themselves), it was treated as heresy and it was not the mainstream during the Song Dynasty. However, sometime we use "Neo-Confucianism" also to include those Zhu Xi's opponents and his predecessors (at least in some Chinese texts). In this usage, I think it was the mainstream during the Song Dynasty. Ye Shi was one of the most prominent opponent of Zhu Xi, and he advocate something like "merchantilism" and "utilitarianism" in Western thought. (Actually, I think Ye's thought is only a form of consequentialism. But in Chinese, "Gong Li Lun" stands for a paraphrase of "utilitarianism", and it can also refer to Ye's philosophy.) There were many conflicting Confucian schools of thought in Song dynasty, but we sometime use "Neo-Confucianism" refer all of them. (P.S. Sorry for my poor English......:( )220.139.235.179 (talk) 19:31, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I wonder why Zhang Sanfeng appears in the list: he has been known as a martial artist but not as a Neo-Confucianist. Ktsquare (talk) 17:11, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

uh...

what's with the doubling

gelo 07:12, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

To begin with, Confucianism is designed to be secular oriented and mainly focused on formulating a moral construct in order to foster a most desirable and harmonious environment in which people could live honorably and prosper in turn. It preoccupied itself primarily on the realm of ethics, social science and political philosophy. In contrast with the Western tradition, theology, natural philosophy, the precursor of modern science, metaphysics, ontology, aesthetics, epistemology, logics, freedom, and liberation, these quintessential schools of thoughts which built the foundation of Western civilization are innately nil in the teachings of Confucius. That is simply a given, for Confucius, his peers, and his disciples, who shall be considered as the paleo-Confucians, had never encountered anything from the West, and simply had to make dues with the existing autochthonous traditions and ideas. Historically, it is Taoism which added much substances in the field of natural philosophy, aesthetics, epistemology, and freedom, while Buddhism acted likewise in the field of theology and metaphysics. Nevertheless, since the Han dynasty officially enshrined that Confucianism as the state sponsored ideology, which exercised its domination for the next two thousands years, the subsequent Confucians, much like a priesthood of a society, had much bearing and influence on the intellectual character of the Chinese for the next two millenniums. In effect, their main contribution isn't necessarily a philosophical breakthrough, but a refinement on bureaucracy and civil service examinations for the new mandarins. They churned out tomes of exegesis of the Confucian canons; ameliorated the poetic verses with all the grace and elegance; blossomed a classic tradition of literary panache; institutionalized the Confucian ethics into the cult of ancestral worship, monarchic loyalty, and patriarchic dogmatism as the most sincere form of orthodox piety; they engineered generations of intellectuals, scholars , and bureaucrats who essentially repeated and refined the previous accomplishments without adding new blood into the aging body. Whereas some sinologists argued that with the introduction of Buddhism which ultimately gave a resurgence in the Song dynasty called Neo-Confucianism, the case is insubstantial and the coinage a misnomer. The new school in Song dynasty founded by Zhu Xi 朱熹 shall be viewed in a historical perspective as the Meso-Confucianism, who simply reinterpreted the authenticity of Confucian orthodox in the lexicons of Buddhism and Taoism. Namely, he consecrated the most noble virtues and honors of Confucian ethics with a dash of religious aura by commandeering phrases in the Chinese vernaculars which were traditionally associated with the nonsecular realm, such as Tianli 天理, or Heavenly Doctrine, Dao 道 or Taoism, and Qi 气 or spiritual energy. The whole monumental effort was really to justify Confucian principles as a form of universal truth. Furthermore, he was the key architect who compiled the canons of Confucianism known as the Four Books (The Great Learning, Doctrine of the Mean, The Analects of Confucius, and Mencius), which had a tremendous impact on the education of subsequent generations of Chinese for almost another millennium. In a nutshell, the Meso-Confucians helped in buttressing the foundation of Confucianism by elevating it to an universal and heavenly status, systematized its doctrines, and codified its teachings. That is all.

-- Dachuxing, an excerpt from Grand Strategy

Remove this paragraph

In the 20th century, the May Fourth movement, Communism and other political modernizing movements tried to eradicate the cultural influence of Confucianism in China, and initially managed to repress its public expression with some degree of success, yet the recent liberalizations on the Mainland have led to some reassertion of its place in Chinese daily life. It also continues to hold a strong influence with overseas Chinese and in Taiwan. Neo-Confucianism also arguably lives on in many aspects of Chinese life, such as reverence for one's elders and the examination system.

It's unclear to be whether this revival is specifically Neo-Confucian.

Roadrunner 16:49, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

This is a serious problem arising for the term "Neo-Confucian." The established meaning is a philosophy primarily developed during the Song Dynasty. But as more and more ordinary people and current theorists in China draw publicly on Confucian ideas (with no specific stress on Song conceptions of them) there is more and more tendency for non-specialists to call these current ideas neo-Confucian. Some people call such ideas "new Confucianism" but I think the removed paragraph follows an increasingly common usage, different from the historically established usage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Colin McLarty (talk • contribs) 12:31, 9 October 2009 (UTC)