User talk:TheOtter

Hello TheOtter, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your recent edit to an article that is part of the Latter Day Saint movement WikiProject. We welcome your contributions and hope that you will stay and contribute more. Here are some links that I found helpful:

• Introduction to Wikipedia and Editing
• A tutorial on editing
• Wikipedia's Manual of Style
• How to write a great article
• Policies and Guidelines
• How to rename, redirect or merge an article
• Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Latter Day Saints)
• Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Latter Day Saints)

If you run into a dispute, please use the Talk pages and the Latter Day Saint movement project talk page to discuss subjects (especially controversial ones) to help reach consensus. But don't be afraid to be bold!! Also, as new Mormonism-related articles are created, please make sure to add them to List of articles about Mormonism.

Remember to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). This will automatically add your name and the time after your comments.

And finally, if you have any questions or doubts, don't hesitate to contact me on my Talk page. Once again, welcome! =)

- meco 08:15, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I reverted your edits, please review the Manual of Style

I recently reverted a bunch of your edits on several articles. I think you should review the LDS Manual of Style - it specifically states that terms like "The Church of Jesus Christ" and "The Church" (capitalized) should be avoided in most circumstances because they create confusion. Thanks, --Descartes1979 (talk) 15:26, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, as long as you’re inviting me to “be bold”…. ;-)

The Church has specifically requested that those terms be used (http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=ca07ae4af9c7e010VgnVCM1000004e94610aRCRD), and the scriptures specifically state what the Church is to be called (see D.&C. 115:4, http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/115/4. Note that the Lord does not command “Thus shall my church be named, but “Thus shall my church be called”. This is a rather important distinction.

I can certainly see why these terms might be confusing in an article in which multiple churches are discussed, but if all we’re talking about is the Church of Jesus Christ, I’m really not sure why we can’t respect both the Church’s and the Savior’s wishes. TheOtter (talk) 12:12, 25 April 2008 (UTC)TheOtter

Hi, I did the same on David W. Patten and some others. It would be helpful if you reviewed the manual mentioned above. Note that the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" wasn't even so-named until 1838, so Patten didn't have anything to do with the church by that name in 1832. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 12:01, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Hey there. I’m not sure what this last one means. You’re right that the Church didn’t have that name until 1838, which is exactly why I changed it to “the Church of Christ.” It sounds like you agree with me, so I’m not sure why you changed it back? TheOtter (talk) 12:04, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Whoa, I am sorry. I totally was confused and thought you had done the reverse. I apologise. That's a sign that I am tired and need to turn in. I will change it back. Sorry for the inconvenience (and my stupidity here). Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 12:14, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

No problem at all. Certainly not like I’ve never made any mistakes. ;-) TheOtter (talk) 12:33, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't think you fully understand the problem...

I don't think you appreciate the full scope of the problem here. There have been lots of discussions on the best way to go about this problem and how to avoid confusion, which is why the Manual of Style was created. All articles dealing with Mormonism (hundreds, maybe even thousands) follow this standard. If you have a problem with the standard, you should take it up on the talk page of the Manual of Style, where your proposals will be discussed and evaluated. Check out the article on The Church of Jesus Christ - notice how there are over twenty churches including fully 18 that are from the Latter Day Saint movement. All of them believe that they rightfully should be called "The Church of Jesus Christ". Hence - the Manual of Style to help us all avoid confusion.

List of Churches that believe they should be called "The Church of Jesus Christ":

• Christian Church, the body of all persons that share faith based in Christianity
• Church of Jesus Christ–Christian, a white-supremacist church founded by Ku Klux Klan organizer Wesley A. Swift
• Church of Jesus Christ at Armageddon, commonly known as the Love Family, a communal church founded in 1968 by Love Israel
• Church of Jesus Christ in Madagascar, the national church of Madagascar and the country's second-largest Christian denomination
• Churches of Jesus Christ International, an international association of over 25 Oneness Pentecostalist churches, each independently named "The Church of Jesus Christ"
• A number of churches with a shared heritage in the Latter Day Saint movement:
  • Church of Christ (Latter Day Saints), the original Latter Day Saint church which for a short period of time was called "The Church of Jesus Christ"
  • The Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite), an international church headquartered in Monongahela, Pennsylvania
  • Church of Jesus Christ (Bullaite), a church founded in 1983 by Art Bulla, a former member of the LDS Church
  • Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite), a church consisting of a single branch in Independence, Missouri
  • Church of Jesus Christ (Drewite), a church founded in 1965 by Theron Drew as a schism from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite)
  • Church of Jesus Christ (Toneyite), a Missouri church founded in 1980 by Forrest Toney, a former member of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
  • Church of Jesus Christ in Zion, a Missouri church founded in 1984 by Ken Asay, a former member of the LDS Church
  • Church of Jesus Christ of the Children of Zion, a short-lived denomination of Rigdonites, founded in 1845 and dissolved by 1847
  • The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), which encourages its members and others to refer to it by the shortened name "the Church of Jesus Christ"
  • Church of Jesus Christ Restored 1830, a church founded in the mid-1980s by dissenting members of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
  • Church of Jesus Christ, the Bride, the Lamb's Wife, a church founded in 1842 by George M. Hinkle and other excommunicated Latter Day Saints
  • Holy Church of Jesus Christ, a church founded in 1964 by Alexandre Caffiaux as a schism from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite)
  • Latter Day Church of Jesus Christ, a church organized in 2007 by Matthew Gill and other former members of the LDS Church
  • Primitive Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite), a church that was formed in 1914 by dissenters from the Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite)
  • Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite), a church that was formed in 1907 by dissenters from the Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite)
  • Restoration Church of Jesus Christ (Gay Mormon Church), a church formed in 1985 by Antonio A. Feliz and other LGBT Latter Day Saints
  • Restored Church of Jesus Christ, a church founded in 1980 by Eugene O. Walton and based in Independence, Missouri
  • United Latter-day Church of Jesus Christ, a Mormon fundamentalist church in Wyoming and Utah

--Descartes1979 (talk) 19:10, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Merge proposal

There is a proposed merge that I think would interest you at Talk:Limited geography model#Several merge proposals - my take. I am posting this notice because I saw that you were a recent editor at one of the pages listed below:

• Limited geography model
• Proposed Book of Mormon geographical setting
• Archaeology and the Book of Mormon

--Descartes1979 (talk) 17:57, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Book of Abraham edits

Hey there - no offense, but your recent edits at Book of Abraham demonstrate an unfamiliarity with the papyri which were discovered. They did NOT only have facsimiles/images in them - they are replete with text which was analyzed and does not match the the purported translation by Joseph Smith. Take a look at Joseph Smith papyri and you will see images of nearly every fragment if you are interested. --75.166.23.220 (talk) 07:28, 30 November 2009 (UTC)