Talk:Iota: Difference between revisions

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"latin" and "roman"

I don't know enough to know if these terms are interchangable. At one point the article refers to "latin 'i'" and at another it refers to "Roman 'I'". If these are the same, then it would be better to use either the term "latin" or "roman" exclusively.

When referring to the Trinity, there has been a debate whether they are homoousios, homoiousios, or heteroousios.

Homoousios means same essence, meaning the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are of one essence.

Homoiousios means similar essence, meaning Father, Son and Holy Spirit are similar yet three different beings.

Heteroosios means different essence, meaning the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are 3 distinct beings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.123.201.24 (talk) 14:24, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Homo and homoi

I have added a brief description of these terms in latin type, though it would help if someone who knew the correct Greek spelling of "homoousios" and "homoiousios" (ousios = substance) would improve upon my effort. Dominic Widdows, Feb 28 2006.

Which one did the Council land on? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.225.92.12 (talk) 00:19, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The council "landed on" Homoousios - but it didn't decide on such a dichotomy. Homoiousios, Homoios etc. all came decaded later. Homoiousios was never the common belief of the Arian party (without using Arius' name), which when in power opted for Homoios. The Homoiousians eventually joined forces with the Homoousians that adhered to the Council and accepted the Nicene creed.

Could we please do without these Gibbon fairytales that are just figments of inventive imaginations. Str1977 ^(talk) 09:25, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect from Jot

Though Jot redirects here, the only reference to the word is in the disambig link to Iota and Jot. --Ihope127 21:11, 13 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Continental i

What the hell is continental i? I tried finding it online - nothing. Is it short i? is it the same thing is the mentioned "English ee" ? Fresheneesz 10:34, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re: English usage

Before discussing the usage in regards to the Trinity, the article currently reads:

The word "yiota" is also used in English to express a very small amount, because iota is the smallest letter in the Greek alphabet.

Really, the Homo-ousios/Homoi-ousios seems a more substantial explanation, so I'm removing this first statement. 65.42.89.232 17:42, 22 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Meaning of Iota

Iota means small, very small, a speck of. Synonyms icnclude tiny, and teeney. Antonyms inculde big, and huge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Edwardgirl12 (talk • contribs) 23:49, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"homo(i)ousios", again?!

So the argument here is that sources lack for both (which is patently not true, see below) so we should stick to your quote from the Christian Scriptures? "Since we don't know the source, we'll stick with what I'll say its true".

The argument that you make is that because the Gospel of Matthew is older, it must be the likelier source. In fact, the phrase "not an iota of a difference" occurs in many Indo-European languages, however, in none of them does it occur before the post-Nicaene debate on the nature of the Christian Messiah. So languages in which the Christian bible had existed for a much longer time than in English (much before English itself emerged, ie Latin, Greek) do not register the phrase until after the the homo(i)ousios debate: if the phrase was derived from Christian Scripture, it would have existed already, as the four canonical gospels (Matthew's included) had been around for at least two centuries by the Council of Nicaea. It did not exist before mid-4th century in Greek: therefore the likeliest source is the Arian controversy, and not the Christian scripture, which in fact one of your sources concedes in: http://podictionary.com/?p=661

For the origin, cf. http://polemarchus.net/2009/11/not-an-iota/ in addition to Ostrogorsky's History of the Byzantine State. (try as I might have, couldnt find the online edition of the book). http://www.amazon.com/History-Byzantine-State-George-Ostrogorsky/dp/0813511984

Konfino (talk) 20:45, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The claim that the English idiom "not one iota" derives from the early Christian homo(i)ousios controversy has been repeatedly removed and reinserted.

One (weak) version of the claim was present in this page from its creation in 2006 [1]
{{fact}}-tagged in April 2009 by an anon [2]
removed by Str1977 (talk · contribs) in July 2009 [3], with explanative edit summary
reinserted in strengthened form without explanation by Konfino (talk · contribs) in December 2009 [4], removing also the prior biblical derivation
fact-tagged by myself, 16 February 2010 [5]
removed and replaced with correct biblical reference by myself, 18 February 2010 [6]
reverted with a mechanical "undo", without edit summary, by Konfino, 18 February.

Note that no version of this claim was ever sourced – neither the earlier version that merely claimed that the phrase "became common" after the theological controversy, nor the later version that claimed outright that it "derives" from it (i.e. exclusively). I consider it obvious that if there is an older, biblical attestation, it cannot possibly "derive" exclusively from the later occasion; in any case, it would have to be demonstrated, with sources, that the theological discourse of the 4th century had any indirect impact on English phraseology in this way. Don't restate this claim without very solid sourcing. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:06, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]