Talk:Arabs

Protection

This article should be protected indefinitely, I haven't seen other Wikipedia articles that are vandalized non-stop to this extent. FunkMonk (talk) 22:00, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree.--Xevorim (talk) 01:03, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Did experimental OBVIOUS vandalizing and it lasted 2 days. Converting it back now since none noticed the "Coiuntless Terrorist Organizatons" in the Arab Organizations field. Seriously though, be on your toes with that article.--94.69.173.154 (talk) 07:27, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

The Arab Negro admixture and Arab Mongol admixture in Southern Arabia

Their Arab-Negro admixture and Berber-Negro admixture, and Arab-European admixture, and Arab-Negro-Mongol admixture. The Arab Negro admixture is confined to Southern most Arabia, but their is also Arabized Blacks who have no Arab blood like the Sudanese who speak Arabic and carry own with their traditional Nubian traditions. Their seen by Arabs as inferior, well the Southern Arabians are seen equal because they have genuine Arab blood. The Ethiopians invaded Arabia during Jewish control of Yemen, the jewish king Dhu Nawas, tried to force some of the early Arab tribes who converted to Christianity were presocuted, by Dhu Nawas, according to Arab sources and legends the Ethiopians with Byzatine support invade Yemen with a large fleet, some of the Ethiopians intermarried with the Arabs, and their called Hojures(outsiders) and low caste mostly work as black smiths, the high caste of Yemen usually look Arabid, most of it is. The Negro admixture in the total Arab gene pool is estimated to be 30% do to the slave trade, however the Arabs also enslaved Europeans and especially the women, and even the males. Their is many writings that describe Blacks as not intelegent and weak compared to Al-Qashir or light slaves, the Arabs have always called themselves Al-budayai ie Whites, but it meant light brown. However the Negriod admixture in Arabs is probably less than 30%.

The Nordic Arabs who appear from time to time are actually decendants of real arabs. One brother is blond the other is brown skined. Arabs are largely Caucasiod beloning to the Orintealid race called Arabid and Med races mixed together. Arabs mixed with Europeans, do sometimes face disicrimination because they don't look typical Arab. Arabs also do belive that only Nordics are truely Europeans, they view Southern Europeans to be mixed with Arabs. Arabs still have caste system in which people of pure Arab decent are on top. well those of African ancestory are on the bottom. Their is Arabized berbers,Egyptians,and Blacks which contributes to different Arab types. However most Arabs belong to the Arabian pensiula, and Iraq where their truely found, and the Beduins. Arabs are largely a dark skined people, with Caucasiod facial features often called Arabid and their mostly mixed with the Meds that lived in the Middle East, who were of Semitic origin and spoke Semitic tongues. I hope this answered what you were looking for.--77.125.95.173 (talk) 17:05, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Sources please? Otherwise, this is not very useful to article development, since it cannot be verified. Tiamut^talk 17:07, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

"I hope this answered what you were looking for." Who ever aksed for anything like this? FunkMonk (talk) 17:09, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Define what you mean by 'real arab', what constituted the original Arab tribes? (ie. the Northern Arabian or Southern Arabian tribes?)Domsta333 (talk) 11:59, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Numbers for EU

Does anyone have numbers for the European Union to put in the infobox? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 20:53, 2 February 2010 (UTC) Make them up, since that is the norm in this article. Brazil 10mil, US 3.5mil Argentina 3.5 mil australia and Canada 500.000? I live in Canada an there is no way that there are that many Arabs here. Australia latest census said less then 200.000. as for Brazil and Argentina, about 100.000 emigrated to each in the last 100 years, unless they breed like rabbits... so go ahead and make up something for the EU, let's say 25mill, it's a nice round number. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.246.134.52 (talk) 05:38, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Arameans vs. Arabs: The fight between Civilization and Barbarism within Islam

By Prof. Dr. Muhammad Shamsaddin Megalommatis

In previous articles we underlined the Aramaean ethnic – racial identity of the Arabic speaking people throughout vast parts of the Asiatic parts of the Middle East, stressing the point that the Aramaean speaking people may look today like a minority among the Arabic speaking people of Iraq, SE Turkey, Syria, SW Iran, Kuwait, Qatar, Emirates, Jordan, Lebanon, Israel and Palestine, but they simply constitute the most authentic part of the same people, i.e. the Aramaeans, who got arabized linguistically only, not racially – ethnically, not culturally (http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/8-9-2005-74536.asp). We underscored the fact that for the Aramaeans the gradual process of Islamization did not mean cultural arabization, but the contrary happened in reality: the Arabs by accepting the Islam were culturally de-arabized and literarily speaking aramaized. We analyzed why Islam is not an Arabic cultural phenomenon, but – quite contrarily – an Aramaic cultural phenomenon that, preached among the Arabs by Prophet Muhammad was geared to civilize – and therefore de-arabize – the nomads of Hedjaz.

The reasons for which these realities are passed by silence and remain unknown to many people, contributing therefore to confusion about the Middle East and the issues related to the Islamic Terror are many; with them we will deal in a forthcoming article focused on the misrepresentations of Islam from the times of Medieval Europe to the modern Colonial Era. In the present article we are going to check whether Islam achieved one of its announced missions, namely to uproot any Arabic cultural element from among the Arabs.

Vindication of Islam by non Arabs: Shu'ubiya

Less than 80 years after the expansion in Jerusalem, Damascus and Ctesiphon, Islam started being vindicated by Persians. The movement of the Shu'ubiya does not represent any 'Nationalism' as its name lets us think; it was rather a historical-cultural evaluation and a socio-anthropological interpretation of the phenomenon of the rise of the Islamic Civilization, already in Umayyad times. The Shu'ubiya did not pretend that Iranian Culture was superior to Islamic or to Arabic, as erroneous modern interpreters attempt to say. They basically tried to explain to whom the Rise of the Islamic Civilization was due, and they stressed that it was owed to non-Arabs, not particularly to the Persians. The fact that we possess few historical sources about this movement, and the parallel rise of Persian culture in supremacy within Islam misled scholars to conclude that the Shu'ubiya represented a sort of rising Iranian nationalism within Islam; and this is wrong.

There were various cultural influences within the early Islamic Civilization, Aramaic, Persian, Jewish, Yemenite, Greek, Coptic. They were all stronger than the Arab element that was persisting whatsoever. The early Islamic expansion covered a vast area from NW Africa to Central Asia. Arabs from the Hedjaz moved to and settled in various cities allover the Caliphate. In parallel, many proselytes, Aramaeans, Persians and people from Central Asia, Egyptians, Greeks and Romans, Africans and Yemenites, moved to Medina and Mecca, the holy area (Haramayn) where the Prophet if the new religion they accepted had lived. So, the cultural clash took place allover the surface of the Caliphate.

It was clear that, after the preaching of Islam, and thanks to their direct contact with the Aramaic world, the Arabs were influenced by late Aramaic rationalism, a current that can be delineated as back as Tatianus in the 2nd century CE. They attempted to interpret the phenomenon of the then rising Islamic Culture and Civilization as a consequence and a derivative of the Islamic religion. Reflecting a narrow-minded and uncultured background, the Arabs stressed what we would call an over-generalized reductionism.

Arab cultural and religious reductionism

1. Methodological reductionism signified that every subject tackled was reduced to the simplest element and meaning / understanding possible. To start with, this approach reduced the Coran, and consequently the Hadith, to flat, graspable, 'permeable' texts easy for all to understand. An example is Ahmed Ibn Hanbal's method of accepting the mutashabihat (unapparent meanings of the Coran and the Hadith) as they have come without saying how they are meant. It was 'normal' for the uneducated and the uncultured Arabs of the 7th century to present the new religion's Holy Book as their 'acquisition', as something easy for nomads to perceive, because only in this way they would be able to levy political – economic profit as ruling class and military (rather than administrators) in the vast Caliphate. Arab religious leaders and preachers denied in the Coran any symbolism, any mysticism, and any mythical – metaphorical element and/or dimension, preventing therefore adequate and pertinent understanding.

2. Theoretical reductionism implied that other religions, ideologies, philosophies, cultures and civilizations were to be replaced by Islam, not because Islam was a new one superseding all the previous, but because Islam had existed since times immemorial as the religion of all the previous prophets (Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, and Jesus), and Muhammad's preaching was only a refinement or completion of the 'older' Islam. Combined with the methodological reductionism, it prevented any interest in search, research, comparison and knowledge.

3. Religious reductionism diffused the erroneous idea that all the events and the developments can be reduced to religious – Coran-based explanations. It accentuated the ignorance about beliefs of other peoples who lived among Muslims, and even worse it led to the irrationalization of the beliefs of the others, as for instance the Sabians, who were centered on Harran and present day Eski Sumatar.

4. Linguistic (Arabic) reductionism diffused the baseless belief that everything can be described in Arabic with a limited number of core concepts and their combinations.

5. Ontological reductionism was formed on the basis of the previous dimensions, and consisted in the aberration that everything is made from a small number of basic substances that behave in regular ways. It pulled several Islamic theological and philosophical systems to Monism.

6. Teleological reductionism involved the belief that everything is made to serve one purpose only, and nothing escapes the prospects and targets set by God. This leads to Eliminativism, and ultimately to Radical Behaviorism, which is at the epicenter of the Islamic Terrorism. For the Islamic Radical Behaviorism everything that matters is a Muslim's behavior.

7. Moral reductionism propagated the erroneous idea that there can be Divine intercession in the Hereafter, which contradicts the Divine Justice. By diffusing the devious idea that in the Hereafter the Muslims, who committed the grave sins and tney became the grave sinners before they died, will be met with Divine intercession, Arab origin bogus-Muslim theologians forcefully changed some of the basic concepts of Islam, promoting among their uncultured fellow countrymen moral negligence and absolute lack of real discipline. If God intercedes the grave sinners, and takes them out of the Hell after they have completed their punishments in the Hell, as the Ashari theologians pretended, morality is reduced to a meaningless non-sense.

What is the quintessence of Arab reductionism?

One has to bear in mind that the change imposed upon the Arabs at the times of Prophet Muhammad with the imposition of Islam was a tremendous event that was difficult for average Arab nomads to accept. When it became clear that Islam would finally be imposed, masses of Arabs realized that they could not avert the event, but they could make it relatively or mostly ineffective or harmless to their past identity and customary way of life.

It is clear that for an Arab of Mecca or Medina in 625 or 628, converted or not, the advent of a great culture and the rise of a brilliant civilization (as we attested them in the Arts, the Letters, the Sciences and the Philosophy of Damascus, Baghdad, Cordoba, Shiraz, Kairwan, Samarqand, Ispahan and Istanbul), as a result of the diffusion of Islam among other peoples, was not expected at all; they could not imagine at all the impact of the Islam on the other peoples because they did not know the civilizations and the cultures developed by other peoples and, in addition, they had not understood Islam in the way many other peoples did. They ignored the link among religion – philosophy – behavioral system – knowledge/erudition – culture. What they expected at the best was a limited change in their lives and customs. They did not perceive Islam as a system based on principles, and they could not conceive the social impact of the loyalty to principles, which is the generating factor of cultures and civilizations.

Very early, and before the diffusion of Islam in Yemen (630) and in the Aramaean-populated provinces of the Eastern Roman Empire and the Sassanid Empire of Iran (636 – 640), the Arabs were involved in thunderous ideological, philosophical and theological debates, which was quite new for them. Of course, it would be futile and misleading to compare the level of the arguments employed to the high conceptual thinking of Muslim erudite scholars, intellectuals and philosophers 200 or 300 years after the death of the Prophet. However, the early debates and disputes brought forth two categories of Arab followers of Islam, namely a) those who were more open to the surrounding world and the other Oriental cultures, so able to cope with and achieve cultural – behavioral improvement, and b) those who were totally barbaric and foreign to any conceptualizing.

As it can be easily surmised, the latter viewed Islam as a religion preached by Prophet Muhammad to Arabs, so as an Arabic religion, preached to them by an Arab Prophet. They consequently viewed the Islamic expansion as expansion of their religion, namely of the Arabic religion, and they made of the early acceptance of Islam by other peoples a bogus-legend of 'conquest' and 'epics' in a due effort to be compared to earlier – and of course immeasurably greater and braver – Roman and Persian exploits and heroic deeds. This was the 'party' that around 'Abu' Bakr, Omar and Othman opposed Ali as First Caliph, as he should be, and became later known as Sunni. We do not imply that all the Sunnis in later periods accepted such trivialization; quite contrarily, Mutazilite Sunni Muslims of mostly Aramaean origin rejected all this explicitly. At this point, we want mostly to underscore the fact that these ideas were shared by the early group of Arabs out of which emanated the Sunnis. A typical example of these people was Muawiyah, the murderous thug, who had Caliph Ali assassinated, prosecuted Ali's two sons, and massacred the youngest so that the way is free for him to become caliph. He then called himself 'Khusraw of the Arabs', which is quite indicative of his idea of Islam.

Contrarily to this group, the 'party' around Ali, the First Imam after the death of the Prophet, was more conscious of the fact that Islam as the correct religion, preached by the last Prophet, was a universal phenomenon, and that the Arabs, in order contribute to the making of Islam a universal religion, had to educate themselves and be able to expose the reasons of Islam to people of higher culture. These Arabs proved able to absorb other cultures' elements, acquire a refined non-nomadic behavioural system, and change themselves accordingly. These are the very early Shia, but at those days the present divide existed under totally different terms.

Aramaean – Arab cultural clashes in early Islam

Here, we intend rather to describe a milieu than to enumerate the long cultural and ideological disputes that were unraveled during the first centuries of Islam throughout the Caliphatic territories. Ahmed Ibn Hanbal was born in Central Asia but to Arab parents, who transported faraway their reductionism through which Arabs had believed they could preserve their hold on Islam. He testifies therefore to what we mentioned earlier, namely that the cultural clash took place allover the surface of the Caliphate.

As we said, it would not be wise to assume that all Arab origin theologians stuck to Arab culture; many appreciated highly the Aramaic and the Persian cultural heritage and contribution into shaping the Islamic civilization, and made them theirs, abandoning the reductionisms of the nomads. However, the leading figures among the early Islamic Illuminati were mainly of Aramaean origin. The large cultural – academic current that contributed tremendously in incorporating the new religion, viewed as reassessment of earlier movements, ideologies, theologies and systems and as innovative interpretation, became known as the Mutazilites. We cannot enter here into the details of the rise and fall of the Mutazilite movement, but we have to stress two seminal issues: a. the Mutazilite movement represents authentically the Aramaean academic, cultural and behavioral background within Islam; it appeared, when the first Aramaeans accepted Islam, became independent from either Rome or Iran, and turned out to be the academic – cultural – social elite within the Caliphate of Damascus. b. the Mutazilite movement was the generating factor of Arts, Letters, Philosophy, Sciences, Lumieres, and generally speaking, progress and civilization throughout the Islamic World were due to them, so to Aramaeans, who took as their own task to give full dimensions of culture and civilization to the newly diffused preaching of Muhammad.

The opposition to uncivilized and ruthless Arab military rulers and petty theologians was not an easy task; anyone could be accused for apostasy a heresy and be executed on the spur of the moment. That is why it took some time for a structured reaction to be formulated against the Arabs. Around 730 – 740, Wasil ibn Ata (born in the area of the elapsed kingdom of Characene, in modern Basra) shaped into a philosophical system all the earlier disparate elements and approaches that served as criticism of the wrong perception of Islam by Arabs. He sought to set the foundations of a philosophical system able to make of the preaching of Prophet Muhammad a viable culture and a genuine search for the truth. By denying that the Coran has existed forever, and by stressing the concept of Freedom and Free Will, the Mutazilites reproduced basic Aramaic Christological approaches but within Islam this time. They provoked an enormous shock to the Arab obscurantist theologians, who needed also time to shape in their turn the Ashari movement almost 200 years after the diffusion of the first structured Mutazilte ideas. This period was precisely the peak of the Islamic civilization, and the rise of the Ashari heralded the beginning of the Islamic Darkness that the philosophical and scholarly erudition of the Aramaean proselytes had set aside for a while. Thanks to Aramaean proselytes, even Umayyad caliphs were convinced that the traditional nomadic culture and behavioural systems of their Arab ancestry had to be obliterated. Even more so, Abbasid caliphs, like Al Maamun and Al Mutassim, promulgated a sort of Inquisition against Islamic Darkness propagated by Arabs, and the reactionist Ibn Hanbal spent much time in the jail.

The two movements we referred to (Shu'ubiya and the Mutazilites) dynamics of the debates and the disputes they generated constitute sufficient sources for the proper historical understanding of the Aramaean – Arab cultural clashes that shaped the historical Islam.

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/8-17-2005-75015.asp —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.234.33.210 (talk) 10:48, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Hebrewעבר and Arabs ערבsame people

The Word Hebrewעבר and Arabs ערבsame word referring to the same people (ARAB)ערב but diffrently being arranged , just like the word snake נָּחָשׁ in Hebrew, and חָנָּשׁ in Arabic.

Plus Abraham is HebrewEber עֵבֶר " (Gen 14:13) from EBER,(עבר) the father of Arabs tribes in SOUTH ARABIA Gen 10:26.

Therefore all israelites,Ishmaelites,Zimranites,Jokshanites,Medanites,Midi anites,Ishbakites, Shuahites ,Almodadites, Shelephites, Hazarmavethites, Jerahites, Uzalites, Diklahites, Obalites, Abimaelites, Shebites, Ophir, Havilahlies, Jobabites and Abraham are all ARABS FROM EBER

WE ARABS are Hebrews from Eber ,And Hebrews from Abraham ,while Ashkinazis according to bible Gen 10:2 are Goyim from Japheth brothers of Gog and Megog —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.101.71.20 (talk) 13:18, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately, Semitic etymologies proceed by ordered consonantal roots, so that root `ayn-ba-ra ע ב ר / ع ب ر is not the same thing as root `ayn-ra-ba ע ר ב / ع ر ب , and words derived from the two roots don't necessarily have any etymological connection at all (unless very specific evidence for such a connection -- beyond just containing the same consonants in a different order -- can be found). Furthermore, the basic meaning of ע ב ר is "to cross over, pass through", and forms of the name "Hebrew" have been found in inscriptions from before 1000 BC (see Hapiru), while ע ר ב has often traditionally been considered to have a basic meaning of "to be dry, arid", and it's noticeable that the Arabs don't really show up in the historical narrative of the Bible (as opposed to the tabula gentium of Genesis chapter 10) until around verse 2 Chronicles 17:11, and aren't mentioned in Cuneiform inscriptions until around the 800s BC. AnonMoos (talk) 15:25, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

P.S. The word Abraham begins with an aleph (not an `ayin), and is divided Ab-Raham (not "Abra-ham"[sic]), and so is extremely unlikely to have any connection whatsoever with either עבר or ערב. And if you want to know why contemporary Arab Jews or Jewish Arabs are not given a large place on the article page, you can consult the past discussions at Talk:Arab_people/Archive_4#There_are_Arab_Jews_too; the brief answer is that the Arab nationalists of ca. 50 years ago and the Arab rulers of ca. 50 years ago (with the conspicuous exception of the sultans of Morocco) proclaimed by their actions that they didn't think that Jews could be good Arabs, or trusted with citizenship rights in Arab countries, with the result that almost one million Jews left Arab-ruled countries, and Jewish Arabs in Israel were the strongest supporters of the Likud party for decades. This whole history can't be undone with the flick of a terminological switch. AnonMoos (talk) 15:47, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Also, the word "Ashkenaz" in Genesis 10:3 probably refers to Scythian tribesmen living in the general Azerbaijan area, and this word as it is used in the Bible has absolutely no connection to any Jewish group. It was only in the Middle ages (long after the Biblical period) that some Jews, who wanted to find a Bible word to use as a geographical name for Russia, semi-arbitrarily plucked "Ashkenaz" out of the tabula gentium of Genesis chapter 10 as a suitable term. Similarly, they plucked Tsorfat out of the book of Obadiah, verse 20, as a suitable pseudo-Biblical name for France... In any case, "descendant of Eber" in the Bible is not at all the same thing as "Israelite" or "Jew", and the word "Hebrew" was originally an Exonym -- it's what others called the Israelites/Jews, but not what the Israelites/Jews usually chose to call themselves in Old Testament times. AnonMoos (talk) 16:00, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Hello Semitic etymologies proceed by ALPHABETS ROOTS not "Order" for example the word SNAKE

in hebrew is :-

נָּ חָ ש / ن ح ش

where as in Arabic it is :-

חָ נָּ שׁ / ح ن ش

Both words referring to the same thing, that is the SNAKE.

Another example is the word WITH

In Hebrew it is

ع م / ע ם

In Arabic it is

م ع / מ ע

So the word Hebrew ע ב ר / ع ب ر and Arabs ع ر ب / ע ר ב different arranged words referring to the same ETHNIC people ,the (ARAB)ערב , but diffrently being arranged , just like the word snake נָּחָשׁ in Hebrew, and חָנָּשׁ in Arabic.

Regarding Hapiru issue,This is rebutted by others who propose that the Hebrews are mentioned in these Egyptian texts as Shasu.

Even though, that does NOT negates that Arab and Hebrew are in fact the same Ethnic People.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.101.71.20 (talk) 09:16, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

If the Hebrew and Arabic words נחש / حنش are indeed etymologically cognate (something which is by no means absolutely clear to me, considering that the sibilants do not show the usual pattern of etymological correspondences, etc.), then it would be a highly unusual and out-of-the ordinary case, which would not affect the well established fact that in the vast majority of cases the order of consonants within a root is in fact highly significant in the Semitic languages. The form جوز is presumably related to the form زوج , but that doesn't mean that one is free to randomly move consonants around in Arabic (or any other Semitic language), because you aren't. Such linguistic "freaks" can be highly interesting in their own way, but they don't overthrow the general principles governing the derivation and etymology of the great majority of words in Semitic languages. I'm afraid that your own speculations seem far more questionable than the Hapiru-Hebrew connection (which has been accepted by some highly-reputable scholars very well known in their fields, though of course not by all). AnonMoos (talk) 10:17, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

AnonMoos Do NOT mixup things, the words Hebrews vs. Israelites vs. Jew are not the same things

•Hebrew/Arabs are the descendants of Eber עֵבֶר who is the ancestor of Abraham Genesis 14:13 whom Abraham is the father of Israelites, Ishmaelites, Zimranites, Jokshanites, Medanites, Midianites, Ishbakites, and Shuahites Genesis 25:2. Eber עֵבֶר is also distant ancestor of many people, including Ammonites, ,Almodadites, Shelephites, Hazarmavethites, Jerahites, Uzalites, Diklahites, Obalites, Abimaelites, Shebites, Ophir, Edomites, Havilahlies, Jobabites , Qahtanites whom all are considered to be Arab tribes Genesis 10:26.

•Israelites are defined to be the biological blood descendants of man name Jacob Genesis 35:11-12.

•Jew is anyone whom adhere to the faith of Judaism( aka jewishness) regardless of his or her race.

•Plus do you know that there is NO single word " Jew יְהוּדִי‎ " being mentioned in the so called five books of Moses (i.e. biblical Torah)? Who is a Jew?" מיהו יהודי?‎

You seem to be misinformed, since the word Yehudi יהודי occurs (in feminine form as a name) already in Genesis 26:34. However, the main branch of followers of Israelite religion didn't start to become identified with the southern kingdom of Judah until after the downfall of the northern kingdom of Israel in 721 BC, during the Divided Monarchy period... AnonMoos (talk) 10:30, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

AnonMoss

So are you saying that the Jew יהודי is the one whom is descendant of Esau from his wife Judith יְהוּדִית the daughter of Beeri the Hittite Genesis 26:34 ? ! ! ! !

Plus the feminine of the Yehudi יהודי is יהודיהYehudiah NOT Yudith יְהוּדִית

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.101.71.20 (talk) 10:50, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

You said that the word Yehudi יהודי did not occur in the Pentateuch, and I pointed out that the word Yehudi יהודי does in fact occur in the Pentateuch. In Hebrew, the name "Judith" is exactly the feminine singular form of Yehudi. AnonMoos (talk) 10:54, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

So you are the descendants of Easu from his Hittite wife Judith ? Yes or No ?

If the word Jew come from Judith then Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and all the 12 sons of Jacob and their descendants INCLUDING MOSSES BIN AMRAM THE LEVI (Exodus 6:20..ARE ALL NOT CONSIDER TO BE JEWS !..Because Jews are named after Judith.

THE QUESTION IS DO ALL JEWS OF TODAY GENETICALLY PROVEN TO BE DIRECT DESCENDANTS OF Judith?

Plus the feminine of the Yehudi יהודי is יהודיהYehudiah NOT Yudith יְהוּדִית

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.101.71.20 (talk) 10:59, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

First off, I am not a Jew (and never claimed to be a Jew), so why don't you just leave that element out of your postings. In any case, I never said anything whatsoever about genetics (or "GENATICS" as you seem to prefer to spell it) -- and of course the word Yehudi derives from the name of the eponymous tribal ancestor Judah (not from the Judith of Genesis 26:34). However, linguistically and morphologically it is in fact true that the name "Judith" (whether found in Genesis or elsewhere) is originally exactly the feminine singular of the word Yehudi יהודי . -- AnonMoos (talk) 11:11, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Don't feed the trolls. FunkMonk (talk) 11:19, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Funny to see how FunkMonk whom is a Wikipedia scholar refer to Arabs as Trolls.

Is this Wikipedia’s point of view on Arabs or his own racist remark?

Sorry for misspelling of the word GENETICALLY..Anon...but that is not the issue , The issues are

1. The feminine of the Yehudi יהודי is יהודיהYehudiah NOT Yudith .יְהוּדִית

2. Where the word Yehodi יהודי (i.e. what you think to be the masculine derivative of word Judith יְהוּדִית), in the Pentateuch texts?

3. If Jews are named after the Hittite wife of Esau Judith יְהוּדִית, then what Mosses Aaron , Isaac and Jacob have to do with Judith יְהוּדִית to be called Jews?

4. And if the word Jew come from Judah( one of the 12 sons of Jacb) then Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and all the 11 sons of Jacob and their descendants INCLUDING MOSSES BIN AMRAM THE LEVI (Exodus 6:20)..ARE ALL NOT CONSIDER TO BE JEWS !..BECAUSE ACCORING TO YOUR DEFINITION JEWS ARE ONLY THE DESCENDATS OF JUDAH

In Nutshell WHERE IS THE WORD JEW Yehodi יהודי COME FROM ?

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.101.71.20 (talk) 11:48, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

I am of Arab descent myself. That doesn't keep me from pointing out gibberish. FunkMonk (talk) 13:01, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Calling my people trolls not a racist gibberish remark ???!!!... Funk ? ! ! ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.101.71.20 (talk) 13:13, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

|}

Your people? Are you an individual or a collective? FunkMonk (talk) 13:35, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Sorry but you had said and I quote "Don't feed the trolls " with plural “S” NOT troll. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.101.71.20 (talk) 13:50, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

It is a general expression. FunkMonk (talk) 13:55, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

How do I know ? How can I believe you ? where is your prove ? After all this topic is littered with racist hate discussions' comments and shows all the hate against Arabs, which put Wikipedia’s objectivity and neutrality on a question mark. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.101.71.20 (talk) 14:00, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

You seem to be the one on this thread who's making claims about "genatics" and loosely throwing around "we" and plural "you" pronouns. AnonMoos (talk) 16:38, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

AnonMoos

Please refrain from referring to a clarification of “the Facts " as "making claims". You obviously misunderstand the difference between "making claims" ( That is allegation based on Shenanigans bug bugs )and a putting FACTS based on irrefutable testable evidences.

Your statements of representation of PROOF about Yudith as feminine of Yehodi and Yehuda (one of the 12 sons of Jacob) contradict the texts and the Hebrew language itself. For anyone who has even a basic understanding of the Hebrew language and its grammar would know that the feminine of the word Yehodi יהודי is יהודיהYehudiah NOT Yudith .יְהוּדִית the Hittite wife of Esau ! ! !

And If the word Jew come from Judah( one of the 12 sons of Jacb) therefore Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and all the 11 sons of Jacob and their descendants INCLUDING MOSSES BIN AMRAM THE LEVI (Exodus 6:20..ARE ALL NOT CONSIDER TO BE JEWS !..BECAUSE ACCORING TO YOUR DEFINITION JEWS ARE ONLY THE DESCENDATS OF JUDAH.

You had failed to produce evidences.

So take your false PROOF and slap yourself with it. I have no confidence that you be able to understand the complex and intrigued true essence of Semitics Arabic/Hebrew languages. It is very strange that a crucial and important subject such as the topic we discuss is actually been studied, lead and monopolize by group of buffoons.

Without serious and sincere introspection (or soul searching) to establish the actual validity/veracity of one’s claim in relation to all the testable facts at hand (rather than a vain sensations/feelings), you will face the real danger of fatally wasting your time in “falsehood”.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.101.71.20 (talk) 21:24, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Origin and meaning of the Hebrew word יהודי

The Hebrew word יהודי Yehudi was formed by taking the name of Judah (the tribal ancestor) and adding an "i"/"iy" adjective suffix onto it. This suffix is known as the "gentilic" suffix in traditional Christian Bible exegesis, and as the nisba suffix نسبة in traditional Arabic grammar. Ancient Hebrew (like ancient Greek, ancient Latin etc.) had only one word to cover the following three meanings (in presumed chronological order of development): 1] A "Judahite" or member of the tribe of Judah by genealogical descent. 2] A "Judean" or inhabitant of the region of Judea (or before 586 BC, an inhabitant of the southern kingdom of Judah). 3] A "Jew", or member of the distinctive monotheistic religion which was associated with Judeans. (By the time of the Book of Esther, there's even a derived verb participle mityahed "becoming Jewish".)

The question of whether the feminine singular forms of words with the gentilic or nisba suffix end in "-it" or "-iyah" in Hebrew can be a somewhat convoluted one, but such complexities belong mainly to modern Hebrew -- in Biblical Hebrew, the feminine of Yehudi is Yehudit (or "Judith" as this traditionally appears in English), as you could ascertain for yourself by looking in standard Biblical Hebrew lexicons (assuming that you're able to use them)... AnonMoos (talk) 16:38, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

AnonMoos

Sources please? Otherwise, this is not very useful, since it cannot be verified. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.101.71.20 (talk) 20:23, 30 March 2010 (UTC)