Talk:Islamic views on evolution

Rejecting Randomness

The article states,"...there is no such thing as randomness but that everything happens according to God's will." Does Islamic creationism resemble the idea of the elect used by Calvinists?--Patchouli 13:32, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Not sure about that. Take a look at Qadr (doctrine) and the parent articles.

Not sure if Reuters articles stay online? Tom Heneghan, "Creation vs. Darwin takes Muslim twist in Turkey" Reuters.com, Wed Nov 22, 2006 http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=inDepthNews&storyid=2006-11-22T172528Z_01_L09265541_RTRUKOC_0_US-RELIGION-TURKEY-EVOLUTION.xml&src=rss&rpc=22 Шизомби 17:40, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Qadr as portrayed by Sunnis is rejected by Shia Muslims, so you can't use Qadr here. The Shia view of Qadr is different, as shown in the article Qadr (doctrine). However, it is true that most Muslims believe that everything happens according to Allah's Will. This doesn't mean that He directly causes it, it just means that He allows it or doesn't stop it. Armyrifle 01:40, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Qur'an and science

I'm working on Qur'an and creationism, maybe the material can be used in this article as well. Imad marie (talk) 11:21, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

We don't want two articles. Move the bulk of it here and leave a summary there; this is the main article on Islamic creationism, after all. --Adoniscik^{(t, c)} 22:34, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Genetic Algorithms

I'd like to propose the theory that God uses Genetic algorithms to do his bidding. This is a field of study in computer science where randomness, more or less, is utilized in creating a result that fits a "fitness" criteria, and over numerous iterations through time, the output approaches perfection. For example, scientists will program a machine to try different variations of plastic limbs and motors to generate a device that moves from point-a to point-b. The first couple of iterations, it's possible the devices generated are so primitive they can't even move, but over time, the results get better and better, until one of them will start moving, perhaps worm-like, perhaps using a single-leg to push, but eventually being able to make it to point-b. Genetic algorithms were based on the techniques of real-world evolution, and like evolutionary biology, they've produced amazing results.

So I propose that God, having created a universe to his liking, set in motion a plan to create a human being, one with the ability to reproduce, think, feel, worship, etc. It took a few million years, and a number of iterations of primitive beings, and all sorts of fitness tests (e.g. coping with variations in weather, geography, diet, etc) before the prototype Adam and Eve came about.

We're obviously delving into intelligent design territory here. It's not science. It's theological theorizing, and trying to match up our beliefs with what science has uncovered.

At the very least, I think a "Genetic Algorithm" link deserves to be in the "See Also" section. --Fshafique (talk) 04:17, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I'd also like to mention that even though GA utilizes randomness at every run, the "fitness" tests however are not, and they determine what lives and what dies. If evolution happened in a random environment, then God is laying down the fitness tests. I'm not suggesting that God left things to be random, but rather that a complex system such as a "Universe" could be self-running and wouldn't require God's intervention for the movement of every particle within it -- something which to us might be considered "random".--Fshafique (talk) 04:38, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I understand how the general theme of the Quran presents God as the ultimate force. But all this about GAs is pure conjecture, and this has no place in wikipedia. WP:NOR exists for a reason. 90.219.104.46 (talk) 08:54, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

suggested title change and article merger

Would it be worth changing the article title to something like "Islamic creation belief". "Islamic creation story" might also work.

I also think that it may make sense to merge the "Islamic mythology" article under the "Islamic creationism" article under any description. The "Islamic mythology" article was created a month after this article and I think it is possible that it may have been set up in competition.

See also the recent discussion on the neutrality of the title of the 'Creation myth' article.

I add this as someone who has no personal belief in a personal god but who acknowledges the possibility that, within conceptions of a god of great power, anything is possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gregkaye (talk • contribs) 09:04, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Given that this article contains little or no information on an "Islamic creation story" or "Islamic mythology", a merge/name-change does not appear to be appropriate. The subject of this article is Islamic promotion of anti-evolution (and/or antiscience more generally) views. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk(P) 10:06, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Lead section doesn't seem to reflect reality

I find the lead very misleading. It suggests that Muslims are at peace with the idea of evolution and science in general, when in fact even if you take a very liberal (by Muslim standards) country like Turkey you find that almost everyone doesn't believe in evolution. This is not the picture the flowery lead section presents. Richard001 (talk) 23:28, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

I would tend to agree that the lead tends to exagerate things, at times more than a little. I think part of the problem is a dearth of RSs on the topic of Islamic Creationism. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk(P) 06:03, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

It actually seems to have missed the following article: History of Evolutionary Thought in Islamic philosophy Faro0485 (talk) 19:53, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Erzurumi Quotation

Please don't blank the quotation of İbrahim Hakkı of Erzurum. it's a remarkable quotation from 18th century Islamic scholar regarding evolution theory. --Polysynaptic (talk) 10:55, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

islam + human evolution are incpmpatible

This article is mislading and someone should do something about muslim apologetics giving a misleading and biased outlook throughout wikipedia scientific articles. Harun yahya (a muslim apologetic) has been even more outspoken against evolution than christian creationists.Jigglyfidders (talk) 09:51, 13 April 2010 (UTC)