Talk:Konitsa

Albanian Name

The source for the albanian name was given so why do you keep removing it Alexikoua and Athenian? --Sarandioti (talk) 21:56, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

The source says that it concerns specific villages in the region, not the town itself, u know it, if not lear SpanishAlexikoua (talk) 22:44, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Excellent point, Alexikoua. --Athenean (talk) 23:11, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Good, for the same reason then you have no objection of the removal of greek names in Delvine, Sarande, Gjirokaster as greek minority lives in village and not in the towns, do you? --Sarandioti (talk) 06:49, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

No, because the sources I have provided and you are pretending not to notice are unequivocal that Greeks live in those towns. --Athenean (talk) 07:54, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Your sources talk about the DISTRICT, not the towns, the articles themselves say that the majority is albanian. Do you understand the difference between VILLAGE and TOWN?--Sarandioti (talk) 07:56, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I just saw this thread here. I also saw a lot of war.... Besides the fact that I think that the name in Aromanian is less important than that in Albanian, I see that you feel very strongly about this. I saw also that you disregarded the source in spanish that Sarandioti provided here [1]. Even though I believe that very few people now in Konica feel Albanian, in the past it was not so: lots of them did (i.e. Faik Konica). This is the reason why I can't buy that right now there are not Albanians at all in Konica or they are in lesser percentage than the greeks living in Gjirokaster (where we have a greek name of the city). I'll put this back into discussion. sulmues (talk)--Sulmues 21:10, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Have you been ever in Konitsa? I am there (or nearby, 15' to the north -in Burasani-) every summer for some 8 years now. The only Albanian thing nowadays is the Hamko's house (mother of Ali Pasha) well preserved with municipality's money. And some very recently arrived Albanian workers used in the nearby valley usually not permanently lived there. Odd enough there are a few old families in the up (old) part of the town which, as they say, are Turks and speaking Turk and their feelings against the Albanians are not perfectly well. --Factuarius (talk) 21:34, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Hey Factuarius, glad you joined the party!!! I have never been to Konica, and I'm not very concerned about how the Turks in Konitsa feel. Besides what do you expect them to tell you, denial is their only salvation. However leaving the turks aside, a lot of Albanians don't have enough national pride, because they are orthodox first and albanians second. And since the church tells them that they are orthodox first and hellenes second, they end up becoming greeks. However it wasn't always so and an encyclopedia should reflect it, by at least mentioning the name in Albanian. Again, if you feel strongly and if you think my logic is poor, don't change, but I would suggest a change similar to what was done with Kostur (where we have the Albanian name (and bulgarian for that matter) (not on top, but a little lower)).sulmues (talk)--Sulmues 21:44, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

(Hey sulmues!!! Do you know me?) I am afraid the scenario about the Orthodox Albanians if its right must be by now, around a century or more old. (What's Kostur?). It just happened to know about Konitsa & I thought to write that nowadays there are no genuine Albanian residents. And I can guarantee that. Accordingly cannot see your point. But let me tell you an interesting story. One of the bigger city in Bulgaria was Pyrgos (means Castle in Greek) with almost entirely Greek population until the early 20th century, but due to the historical events (see Eastern Rumelia, Balkan Wars and Bulgarization) now has only a few if any. To your surprise you will find that nobody tried to put the old Greek name in the article although the current name (Burgas) means nothing to the Bulgarian. Everyone just decided to avoid an edit war for nothing, and to save himself from some possible bans in his back. Now, I agree that Sarandioti had always different opinions in similar cases..but again he is not between us to say if that was right or wrong (or he is sulmues?) --Factuarius (talk) 06:53, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Hm how do I know you: I know the triple factuarius-athenean-alexikoua, because I see your names here: [2], [3], and [4] so I see your love in all the topics involving Cham Albanians, Northern Epirus Himare, Origin of the Albanians, gjirokaster, sarande, and albania. How can I be an Albanian, write in Wikipedia and not have to know you three? Sarandioti: Can't speak about him, 'cause I never talked to the guy. I was referring to this Kostur.sulmues (talk)--Sulmues 21:57, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Hm that's funny, because

• I don't have a single edit in Northern Epirus
• I don't have a single edit in Himare
• I don't have a single edit in Origin of the Albanians
• I don't have a single edit in gjirokaster
• I don't have a single edit in sarande
• I don't have a single edit in albania

Now, if you want to be a little more persuasive in how you know me could you be kind enough to try again? --Factuarius (talk) 00:06, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Cham Albanians

The claim that the town was "Albanian speaking" and inhabited by Cham Albanians is simply not true. Nor is it backed up by the source used. Konitsa is and always was, to my knowledge a predominantly Aromanian settlement. The history section is in general woefully underdeveloped, so over the next few days I will add to it. Athenean (talk) 19:00, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

I was reviewing the discussion with Factuarius almost a year ago and smiling at my words and his. Important Albanian personalities came from Konica, and the rulers (beys) were Albanian. I am not sure if they can be called Cham Albanians, but the existence of the Albanian population in this place is evident. It is not ok that the Aromanian name of the city is there, but the Albanian isn't: there are both Aromanians and Albanians in the city. In addition since we have the Greek names in Sarande and Gjirokaster, it would be necessary that a city so close to the border with Albania have the Albanian name. --Sulmues ^(talk) 19:22, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Why? The only reason we have names in the lede is if many sources refer to them in that language, regardless of whether they are close to border. The distance to the border is irrelevant, otherwise we would all kinds of weird results. Athenean (talk) 19:26, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Usually if the cities are close to the border it is a good argument to have both names. This gives some results. --Sulmues ^(talk) 19:36, 3 October 2010 (UTC) Not to mention that many sources erroneously point to Faik Konitsa. --Sulmues ^(talk) 19:38, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

A really wonder why we have this disruption by adding sources of 1872 just to promote an extreme national view [[5]], wp:or can be very usuefull.Alexikoua (talk) 20:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Usual reverts from Athenean

Athenean why are you reverting [6]? A traveller's book of 1872 is a good independent source for the population in 1872. What is exactly that you want? --Sulmues ^(talk) 20:09, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

No 19th century sources, please. Even you should know that by now. Athenean (talk) 20:10, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

What's wrong with them? --Sulmues ^(talk) 20:12, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

ROFL. Athenean (talk) 20:12, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm glad you have a good time, but honestly how can you make a census in the 21st century for the population of the 19th century? And if I find you censuses of the 19th century you'll fake another "ROFL" [7]? --Sulmues ^(talk) 20:14, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

If by now you don't know what's wrong with using a source from 1872, you have no business editing wikipedia. Unless you're pretending, that is. Honestly. Athenean (talk) 20:19, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

No I'm not pretending. I have never seen anything in wikipolicies that prohibits me from using old sources (unless a new one to contraddict it or affirms it exists). You are the only one who has these problems. If you find better sources, please enter them and change the wording. I guarantee you that it won't be easy for you to give a pure Greek character to 19th century Konitsa. The traveller is very clear about the Albanian physionomy of the settlement in the 19th century, why hide that source and the history of Konitsa? --Sulmues ^(talk) 20:28, 15 October 2010 (UTC)