Talk:Anachronism

How Many Examples?

Is our goal in this page to list every anachronism that exists, or to simply provide an example of each type of anachronism? Paragraphs upon paragraphs of this article are seemingly dedicated to cataloging every anachronism that currently exists. For the field of science fiction, as time passes anachronisms happen in any work set far enough away from the present time. It seems like a bad idea to try to list them all. Thoughts? 97.102.165.239 (talk) 03:56, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Science Fiction and Time Travel

Yeah, that. Need section.Rayvn (talk) 08:58, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Examples

Could you please add some examples!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.22.153.99 (talk) 11:25, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

For Example: In Doctor Who The TARDIS, a time-traveling ship which is perpetually stuck as a 1950s-style police box is always in a place it shouldn't belong(time-period-wise) but because of the TARDIS's perception filter it is able to be there without being noticed(and out of place) by most the general public. Andy5421 (talk) 16:51, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

It was not vandalism; but it was a translation! However Mitch Ugana of AndNetwork was not the original author. He obtained the story from a man while riding on a bus near Luxor. The website Partytobenamedlater.com was valid during the period Mitch Ugana of AndNetwork traveled to Egypt. Mitch used that website to get information on the wire. The story was translated, as he jotted his notes, by a woman who was multilingual. The only reference to the translator was a scribbled note "Dorathea Stamous" and no other information. The Codex Sinaiticus only helps prove that although the book of Revelation was mentioned at the Council of Carthage in 419, when it became accepted as a Canon of Scripture. Further changes and additions could have been made and this possibility needs further study. This does provide some evidence to the claim of Pope Vitalian and 666 being a reference point and year during the imprisonment of Bishop John of Lappa. Mitch Ugana was doing further research on the project near Lake Malawi. He was last seen on a small boat on the Ruhuhu River. AndNetwork.net was, during the time Mitch traveled to Lake Malawi, then closed to outside global networking. The pressure to limit AndNetwork's access to full world wide web availability is said to have been driven by forces outside of Africa. To date, no further evidence of Mitch's demise has been uncovered. Rumor was that Lake Malawi and the Codex Sinaiticus are somehow tied. There is no evidence to support the rumor. The book "Rag and Bone" by Peter Manseau does, by sheer accident, uncover the truth; that Mitch Ugana was indeed a pseudonym. No one at AndNetwork knew Mitch's real name. Mitch was said to have told some, that the man on the bus was an Egyptian Scholar who wished to remain anonymous...No further information or notes are available.

Partytobenamedlater.com indicates that the year 666 mentioned in the Book of Revelation in the Christian Bible is such a prochronism. The Vatican records are simply in error; the 666 is the year 666 A.D. (of that time) A Bishop John of Lappa was imprisoned in a cave during that period and with a map focused his anger either towards Papacy, and/or "Paulacy" for being imprisoned as an heretic. This became voiced in a "madman's code" indicating the year of such rule and including Pope Vitalian. Pope Vitalian then, on Bishop John's behalf, appealed to the ruling body of the time. This code also encompasses "Constantine's Sword" and other historical realities prior to the year known back then as 666 A.D. The outline bishop John saw of a dragon is readily seen on any map suggesting that prophecy is as it always has been, not a reality for man in any scientific sense, but in this case the rantings of an imprisoned Bishop. The changes that assumably were made by a priest allowed the chronology to fit into an earlier time. This suggests it would be unclear to modern Papacy unless records are scrutinized to indicate otherwise. We know even now changes are made. Papal records may indicate how such a change was made and overlooked to create the current canon of the Christian Bible. Titus 1:10 is now published differently from the Latin Vulgate at Vatican.va. It is evident and readily obtained. The term "...the Jewish Christians." and "...those of the circumcision." are not transferable, yet they are so changed. A look at the Latin suggests such changes were indeed made.

Social anachronisms

The term is also often used (more metaphorically) to describe the experience of encountering things in life which appear to be out of place in time, though on a literal level they are not. Monarchies and other overly lavish political traditions from past centuries are considered by many to be quite anachronistic, as are some old-fashioned languages and certain religious traditions.

Moral values prevalent in another time, which have now fallen out of favor, may also be referred to as anachronistic.

The style of the section "Anachronisms in art and fiction" is different. Is it from one of the public domain encyclopedias? In fact, you might say it's an anachronism. --Erauch 04:50, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Anachronisms in literature

I think the article should expand on the idea of intentional anachronisms, not only in film/theatre but in literature — for example, The French Lieutenant's Woman by John Fowles is set in the Victorian Era but makes constant references to the modern day, which is possibly a comment on the inevitable anachronistic/false nature of literature set in the past. Very postmodernist.

Geographical/geosocial misattributions

Is there a word for misplacing a word or phrase in geographical and/or social space rather than time? That is, misattributing an expression across concurrent dialects? For example, "quoting" a Geordie (NE England) speaker as using "Howdie!" (USA) as a greeting?

Apologies of this is not the right place to post this query — yet another possible misplacement — but I have had a look around and could not find a more obvious place :)

-- Ms Mouse

For general fact-finders like this, try the Wikipedia:Reference desk. JRM 21:53, 2004 Dec 6 (UTC)

Editing

In the immortal words of Greg Dyke, this article needs to cut the crap.

Agreed. How about futuristic anachronisms? The unintentional section was full of opinion and NO cited sources. I edited one sentence to remove some opinion (the previous writer had said the anachronisms present in David Brine's earth were "annoying". This is an encyclopedia, not a blog. And I don't know how why this box is here or why it expanded the page I'm new to editing and very new to discussion pages. Doing my best to fix it. EDIT: I was unable to find a solution and I've got to leave, if someone could fix this for me, it'd be much appreciated. GammaRage (talk) 00:34, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

The puzzling See Alsos

Can someone please fix this list of SEE ALSOS? Why is Electricity, Physics, and Celts, etc. on this list? Kingturtle 08:00, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

I think I see what happened here. Someone got overzealous and in addition to adding the appropriate bits like the Baghdad Battery, Blackadder and so on, decided to add the subject categories they fell under, like Electricity and History as well. They also added articles where they came across the mention of the term anachronism. I've culled down the list to what are clear and relevant examples. --khaosworks 08:23, May 14, 2005 (UTC)

Should the Naruto link be taken out? It seems to me that's more a case of a fan of the show wanting to put in a link rather than someone actually putting it in for the benefit of the article. Tyrwh 04:43, April 28, 2007 (UTC)

See also

• History
  • Histoire de l'Inquisition en France
  • Walter of Chatillon
  • Matter of Rome
  • Celts
  • Blackadder
  • History Bites
• Archaeology
  • Antikythera mechanism
  • Pseudoarchaeology
    • Ancient astronauts
• Physics
  • History of physics
  • Electricity
    • Baghdad Battery
  • Time travel
• Society for Creative Anachronism
  • Live action role-playing game
• Fiction
  • Crime fiction
  • Science fiction themes
    • Steampunk

Social Anachronisms

The content of the Social Anachronisms section was replaced with nonsense. Someone later edited it so it was grammatically correct nonsense, but didn't restore the original content. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Anachronism&diff=26099439&oldid=25744586

I'm not sure if this was actually vandalism or just a misplaced edit, but it certainly was bizarre.

OK, I just went to the user's page, and he has a history of vandalism and has been repeatedly warned. He removes content from articles and replaces it with nonsense. I think permanent bannination is in order.

Terrible example.

"For example, if a play set during the Roman Republic portrays a person using a computer, the computer is an anachronism."

I really don't think so... First of all, what is a "play set"? Probably doesn't matter because if ANYTHING in the Roman Republic has a picture of a person using a computer then that's spooky fortune telling or time travel or something. It's not anachronistic.

Using a typewriter to write a wikipedia article is anachronistic.

I don't find anything wrong with the use of the term, but I agree the examples could be better. Could we have an example of something that's easily recognizable, easy to overlook, but obvious when you know about it? I thought the digital watch was a perfect example, but it's already being used in the next bit. --Kjoonlee 03:30, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I think the problem here is that there's a common understanding of "anachronism" as referring to something hopelessly obsolete or behind-the-times, for example a Nehru jacket, a rotary-dial telephone, or state fascism. But the article is concerned with a general concept of anachronism which may be defined as "any usage of an object distinctly outside of its proper temporal context". A computer on the desk of Caius Publius Aelius is not immediately recognisable as an anachronism under the common usage, yes, and it suggests science-fiction concepts like time travel -- perhaps because it is so far out of its proper temporal context. For that reason the example given is confusing and therefore not up to par. A better example might be a short story in which Benjamin Franklin is depicted as nervously clicking a retractable pen. --7Kim 20:54, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Does it bother anyone else that one of the paragraphs under "Art and Fiction" starts out as "Those computerized adventure games..."?

Psychology

Anybody certain that "anachronistic displacement" is an actual psychology term? A google search on the phrase seems to yield only the wiki article and others referencing the wiki article.

It's hard to answer that question in a direct way. Does the concept exist in abnormal psychology? Yes. Does the offered phrase accurately describe the concept as it's understood in abnormal psychology? Yes. Have I encountered the phrase in print? I have only seen it in print in formal remarks by psychiatrists in patients' charts (I work in mental health care), and I have heard it used by psychiatrists. Does it exist in "official" psychological dictionaries? I cannot answer this of my own knowledge. I can only attest that I have observed psychiatrists using it in formal contexts. Others may quibble, but that's good enough for me.--7Kim 21:12, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I consulted some texts in psychiatry last night. The answer appears to be "yes and no": Yes, it is an actual technical term. However, it appears to be a superannuated one, as the latest text I could find that found it worthy of mention was dated in the mid-1960's. On the other hand, to this day it is used, immediately understood, and treated as technical language. You pays your money and you takes your choice. Arguing either side will drag us into prescriptionist/descriptionist flamewars debates and I'm not going there. Personally, I'm for it, but from a Wikipedia perspective, absent a recent documentary citation it should probably go.--7Kim 14:53, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Date anachronisms

Proposed additions:

• Add link to neologism and retronym.
• References to years in the 20th century. Before what was often referred to in speech as "year two thousand" and sometimes written informally as Y2K, 1995 would normally have been referred to as "ninety five" and written 95, whereas in the 21st century it has become usual to write years in full and to say "nineteen ninety five". Thus reference to "1995" in a play set in the 20th century might well be anachronistic. GilesW 12:34, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

"Two types" section - why?

What does this section do? It actually starts out talking about a person - an 'anachronist'. Has some eager person cocked this section up by adding that and no one has noticed? It makes little sense... Malick78 (talk) 20:02, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Linguistic anacronisms

It is claimed that present-day English-spoken people would had hard to understand the language as it was spoken in the 18th century. Is there not a general rule saying that languages change to the incompencible in about 600 years? Thus present-day people would had understood the very most of what people said in the same language 250 years ago. Anyone who knows?

2008-10-13 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.67.105.223 (talk) 15:24, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

There would be no problem understanding 18th century English; novels by Jane Austin and the Brontë sisters are extremely popular! William Shakespeare wrote in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, but we read Shakespeare easily enough. The Authorised Version of the Bible dates from the beginning of the seventeenth century but is written in sixteenth century English, and we are brought up with that (or at least my family was). I can't speak for Americans of course.

However, the Bible, the Book of Common Prayer and Shakespeare pinned English down. They made a standard. Earlier versions of English are more troublesome. I can read Chaucer easily enough, but only because I have studied it; most Britons would find Middle English hard to understand. As to Old English (to about the twelfth century), that is effectively a different language.

In a historical novel set in the 18th century, one would be expected to put eighteenth century words in the characters' mouths. Earlier than that and authentic language becomes strained: you just have to avoid expressions which arose later. In particular, we use Shakespearean phrases and those from the Authorised Version of the Bible without thinking about it. If a courtier of Henry VIII says "I'll not budge an inch" (from King Lear), the author has slipped up.

Howard Alexander (talk) 21:25, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

You are right: present-day people could probably have a conversation with someone with the same mother tongue who lived five centuries ago. If a work of historical fiction takes place less than six centuries ago I think people could speak the modern counterpart of the languages in question as long as they avoid expressions obviously derived from later concepts. They may also use words from that time about things from that time which don’t have any present-day counterparts. If the story takes place six centuries ago or more they could speak a descendant language. I don’t have anything against people speaking an other language than actually was the case if they pretend it to be the actual language. In such cases people who spoke different languages in the real world should speak different languages in the historical fiction too. This may not be practical in written texts. Then it should be made clear who speaks which language. This can be acquired by writing the parts in the most unusual language in italics or by the use of different fonts. This is just my opinion.

2009-01-20 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

Poor Choice of Examples

Some of these things aren't so much anachronisms as consequences of the world evolving differently than futuristic depictions in TV and film. An exmple is "In the 1982 film Blade Runner which is set in 2019, Atari, which was liquidated by the late 1980s is portrayed as the main source of computer products. Also the film depicts cigarettes as being advertised, not anticipating that by the early 2000s most developed nations would have had legislated against tobacco advertisement in the name of health." If I made a movie about flying cars in 2050 but by 2050 we still didn't have flying cars..is that an anachronism? Maybe it is, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wickedxjade (talk • contribs) 05:21, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Anachronism in scholarship

The concluding section dealing with the status of anachronism in academia is in part original research (the first example, so long as it lacks a reference) and in part an exercise in examples failing to demonstrate what they are meant to (the Sagan example). On the whole it is poorly worded and difficult to draw conclusions from. While it captures the general status of anachronistic analysis ('bad'), it would benefit greatly from at least one or two good sources (first to mind is Skinner) and a rewrite focusing less on examples and more on getting the basics established. Also there is a good article on the Historian's fallacy as a specific sort of anachronistic reasoning that should be at least linked to. (MH (talk) 17:04, 5 October 2010 (UTC))