Talk:Scopolamine

Scuba diving

From the section on scuba diving ...Due to its effectiveness,it has become commonly used by scuba divers... Effectiveness at doing what? Joyous 18:59, May 16, 2005 (UTC)

Hyoscyamine

Hey, there's an article called hyoscyamine. Two articles for exactly the same compound.

AbinoamJr 14:41, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

If you take a look at their structure, you'll find that they're not exactly the same compound. Matt 15:15, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Chemically, they're not the same...interesting thing, though...cocaine IS. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DannyBoy2k (talk • contribs) 18:46, 22 February 2007 (UTC).

It was so similar, the description, and the name. Thanks for clarifying -- Abinoam Jr. ^msg 02:51, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Note about anti sea-sickness use

Experiment Description for: Inflight Salivary Pharmacokinetics of Scopolamine and Dextroamphetamine (DSO 457)

http://lsda.jsc.nasa.gov/scripts/experiment/exp_descrp_pop_up.cfm?exp_id=DSO%20457&string=&current_string=

Scopolamine/dextroamphetamine, a drug combination used to prevent motion sickness, was studied because of its frequent use by crewmembers during flight and its reportedly variable pharmacokinetics and poor bioavailability on the ground.

--Charles Gaudette 19:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Robbery Drug

Although, for security reasons, he couldn't say where, a relative of mine is in the Coast Guard and they were in port for a couple days in/around Peru and some (many) reported being drugged. Lucky they were in groups of at least 4 so they made it back to their ship OK. But the had the symptoms of this drug. Believed to be an attempt to rob them. This was within the past week. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.209.114.224 (talk) 01:44, 8 May 2007 (UTC).

Medical use as a tobacco cessation product (Wellplex)

Can someone add a section on this chemical's recent use as one part of a one-time injection that's purported to allow immediate cessation of tobacco use without withdrawal symptoms? The "Wellplex shot" uses scopolamine and atropine, and the "SMART Shot" uses scopolamine and Atarax (and antihistamine). Apparently the treatments aren't yetFDA approved, but doctors are allowed to use them, and they are gaining in popularity. There are hundreds of clinics that offer these treatments as their sole function (see Wellplex). At any rate, there should be some mention of this in the article. Kel - Ex-web.god 07:45, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

This might be a source for it´s use as an antiaddictive:http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/scopolamine/scopolamine_article1.shtml91.97.181.196 (talk) 21:42, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Scopolamine

A use for this drug which is not mentioned, but with which I am familiar, is as a component of the preparations of a patient for electrochemical shock therapy (ECT), which I believe is still being applied. It was injected immedialetly prior to the adminiatration of the ECT, along with at least one other drug, with the goal being to make it harder for the ensuing convulsions to damage the patient.

My goal here is not to edit the offering, but simply to trigger the memory of someone more knowledgeable than I to more fulsomely describe its use - so please feel free to remove this when you do. 74.105.40.154 23:59, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Moved user signature

This "--Terry Lennox 03:45, 10 October 2007 (UTC)" signature was in the "popular culture" paragraph. Martin | talk • contribs 21:56, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Truth drug

"The use of scopolamine as a truth drug was investigated in the 1950s by various intelligence agencies, including the CIA as part of Project MKULTRA. Nazi doctor Josef Mengele experimented on scopolamine as an interrogation drug". According to the Josef Mengele article, he did not experiment after 1945, so his "works" predate any 1950's investigations. Rephrasing the paragraph? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.245.226.43 (talk) 20:32, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Misuse

I find this very hard to believe "Delivery mechanisms include using laced pamphlets and flyers laced with the drug; however, spiked alcoholic drinks are the most common". I am not a chemist, and have no experience with the drug. But there are very few drugs that can cause a serious effect simply though touch. Unless the pamphlets are strongly laced, and then they were to eat something and it's transferred. Which would mean they would need to be followed. Best I can tell, the only source is the timeonline article, which I don't believe would be reliable. DrugBank [1] also lists the drug as Transdermal in 'disc' form. Can someone with more expertise please confirm/deny the possibility of drugging someone through touch, and if not possible remove that part. - xen 03:49, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

In response to the above... This Documentary talks about how you can simply blow it into someones face and they will be affected. http://www.youtube.com/v/xk0cV6JecV0 -x 02/08

I would like someone with proper expertise to clear this point since I believe it is indeed possible to get poisoned through contact. My source is personal experience. I live in Caracas and was a victim once of a rob attempt with this drug. By the way, most people in Venezuela do not consider the criminal use of "burundanga" to be an urban legend. I know people that have been victims. In my case, the effects of the drug were disorientation and a great difficulty to think clearly. It lasted for about an hour. In the end I also felt a tingling in my hand (the part of my body exposed to the drug).

In the interest of objectivity, if proper confirmation about this topic is not found, I believe the best thing to do is to remove all mention about criminal use from the article. Claiming it is just an "urban legend" is not acceptable either.

Caracas

I just removed the following statement: "Also in Caracas, Venezuela, crime related to burundanga techniques has multiplied in the last years. Targets are easily approached and just with physical contact they administer the drug to the victim. Reports of techniques of administration include wafting the powder to the victim with a puff of air, drugged chewing gum, or even craftily dropping the powder into the collar of a shirt or the front of a woman's low-cut dress. " Since it's been unsourced for more than a year and is probably an urban myth. If sourced it should be placed back. With a proper source of course. JunCTionS 22:21, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

edit of unreliable sources, fact tags

I have removed unreliable sources like the sobernetwork and newspapers. I have also edited some for more compact format and better presentation or less sensationalist phrasing. Please limit sources to peer reviewed articles and recognized medical texts as of WP:MEDMOS. I also intend to remove the trivia section. This is encyclopedic level of information, and we cannot include every B-movie and soap opera, where Scopolamine was part of the phantasy plot. These materials belong into movie plot discussions and popular blogs, not into encyclopedic medical articles in my opinion. 70.137.131.133 (talk) 06:20, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately my edits have been reverted without discussion, before they could be discussed. Thats a bit too quick, Anthony. 70.137.131.133 (talk) 06:59, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Hyoscine-Pentothal

• Removed reference to fictional Hyoscine-Pentothal. Such combinations of Hyoscine and barbiturates have been actually used for surgical procedures, actually fairly std mix. Whatever some movie plot made of this is immaterial for a medical encyclopedic entry. We cannot account for every flatulence of any illiterate in Hollywood.
  • Related: Fixed combinations of morphine/scopolamine (e.g. 20mg/0.3mg), Scopolamine/Ephedrine/Eukodal (SEE, also: Scophedal; Eukodal-Knoll is Oxycodone) were commonly used for heavy sedation/pain management on e.g. victims run over by a trolley and w.o. legs, also in excited maniacs in the looney bin. The use of such drugs as "truth drugs" is plausible, like with the rest of the common stash of an anesthesist. But we can't include all fictional stuff here or debunk all fictional stuff here. Its an encyclopedia, not a movie plot thread of some blog. 70.137.131.133 (talk) 03:55, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
• I restored the hatlink. People need to be told that the popular "24" series gets its facts wrong. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 05:02, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
• Don't call me elitist now. But I think an encyclopedia contains the information, which is the agreed best effort to relevant truth at the time. If it is not in there it is bogus or irrelevant. It cannot contain debunk of all idiot/sadist/illiterate phantasies of popular media or their idiot/sadist/illiterate authors, that is not a lasting value, but just mental idiot-trash-food for idiot-trash by idiot-trash. We should make up a Idioto-trasho-pedia for that purpose. Who talks about "24" in five years, who gives a shit? The actors are by then probably in the morgue with a very interesting mixed overdose (Yummie! Gimme some!), as far as I know Hollywood.

The "Encyclopedia Britannica 1911" or the "Brockhaus 1898" are still very readable and valuable sources, I may remind you, when seen in historical context. And they didn't include antics from some stage or some whore house of 1898 either, but a best-effort attempt to contemporary and relevant knowledge. Read a bit in one of them, that you know what an encyclopedia is. 70.137.131.133 (talk) 05:23, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Encyclopedia... encyclopedia...? No thanks we don't buy an encyclopedia, we already have a book (bible) and a TV-set. 70.137.131.133 (talk) 05:49, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Sobercircle, Wall Street Journal, date rape, Burundanga

Removed Wall Street journal ref per WP:MEDMOS. This is certainly not a peer reviewed scientific journal, but some idiot journalists at work for sensations. I wouldn't take their financial advice either.

Removed sobercircle date rape burundanga as a ref, per WP:MEDMOS. This is not a peer reviewed article, but some screaming idiocy concocted by a "sober circle", 12-steppers, church people: "Kids, don't do drugs" On danger of being lynched now by a militia of teetotalers: removed. Also contains factual errors (7g of scopolamine; he probably means some plant material), self reports of idiots walking around in a half conscious state, gossip, by unnamed laymen and concerned citizens. Do it in your church group. Its not encyclopedic information.

dagbladet, nyheter: Same argument, some newspaper crap, removed per WP:MEDMOS;

Please don't revert this edit w.o. discussion. I have given the rationale now. 70.137.131.133 (talk) 04:25, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned Comments

Well I watched the VBS documentary & I'd hardly call it 'In Depth' Lucidspacedog 16:38, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Isn't it also used as an anti-emetic? If I recall they even sell skin patches for motion sickness. --LDC

First item in this line of the article: "is also an antiemetic, antivertigo, antispasmodic...". :) -- [[User::Paul Drye|Paul Drye]]

---

Is there a reason to capitalize Scopolamine Hydrobromide ?
Kpjas

---

Isn't this article a bit of a hard read for a person without a medical background? Wouldn't it be appropriate to translate and expand some of the jargon within the article to reduce the amount of link-following one has to do to understand it? --Robert Merkel

Agreed. It's typical of science-related pages on Wikipedia, which inevitably degrade into little more than jargon and are therefore of no value to actual human readers. It's probably Wilikpedia's biggest fail point right now.

---

I removed the claim that it is used in medicine to induce amnesia. The fact that it induces amnesia is mentioned in the article, but I don't think that's ever a goal of treatment. AxelBoldt 15:43 27 May 2003 (UTC)

One situation where amnesia is a goal of treatment is during surgery or other painful procedures. You do not want to be conscious when you're getting slit open and your organs wiggled around. Scopolamine has been almost completely superceded by other drugs for the purpose but it is still one of its uses.Porkchopmcmoose 02:44, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Continued discussion

• I have again reverted these deletions. The affected text has been in page Scopolamine for a long time with nobody else deleting it. As regards sources, very many articles use the more reputable newspapers as references; I admit that some newspapers such as the Daily Mirror are unreliable. http://www.sobercircle.com/ seems to me to be sensible, whether or not it says "do not drink" and suchlike. Special:Contributions/70.137.131.133 shows that User:70.137.131.133 has only been active for 4 days; see User talk:70.137.131.133. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 08:56, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
  • wrong; I have a variable IP 70.137.x.x
  • What about WP:MEDMOS, what about factual errors and sensationalism? 09:57, 18 October 2008 User:70.137.131.133
• Re the hatlink: the "24" series may or may not be trash, but very many people watch it or have watched it and may have been misled by it about hyoscine and/or pentothal. I feel that one duty of Wikipedia is to correct misinformation that people get from other sources. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 08:56, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
• This is again a little too quick. Maybe some other opinions? 70.137.131.133 (talk) 09:57, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Scopolamine=devils breath?

That is a rather suspicious trivial name and an unreferenced recent anon addition, do you have a reference?

I would rather prefer if the reference is NOT some investigative sensational journalism report or youtube crap, filmed by some rednecks in their back yard. Seems to lack notability, with a strong hint of superstition. Have found no serious ref for that.

Sorry, this seems to be another case of the huge rabid mexican rat, sold as a dog, and of Ramirez being found in the trunk of Gonzales, stabbed with a screwdriver. Belongs more into a Redneck-o-pedia I guess. Removed until reliable ref. 70.137.173.82 (talk) 08:49, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

I just did a quick google search when I restored it, and found this. I am sure there are no serious scholarly reports that say "scopolamine is real devil's breath" but just based on that quick search I believed the usage was wide enough to merit inclusion. I am sure the origins of the word are very superstitious, but that does not mean it is/was not in wide-spread use. The fact that scopolamine is not really devil's breath certainly does not mean it is not a relatively common trivial name. After all, mercury is certainly NOT silver, but I doubt you would argue that the name quicksilver should be removed from the article even though it is not commonly used today. The Seeker 4 Talk 13:17, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

As this is a medical article, or at least is meant to become one, I would prefer if we limit ourselves to scholarly sources, rather than the 9-part series of sensation reporters of vbs-TV, where this term seems to originate. (per WP:MEDMOS read that) The comparison with quicksilver is not completely fair, as this is a name which has been used in a long tradition, reaching into pre-scientific times. In German mercury officially is named "Quecksilber", thats not a slang but the real name in high-German , so old is this name. This seems not to be the case with devils breath, the "devils breath" seems to be of very recent origin, approx 2007, and was unheard of before these "reports", which are 50% hype, because otherwise it would be boring and without commercial value for the TV channel. So to say part of the animation menu for tourists, and 50% related to the rabid huge mexican rat, which got sold as a dog, and Gonzales having the stabbed Ramirez in the trunk, probably after narcotizing him with devils breath. In a halfway scientific description I would prefer to not allow reporters to create new language. Thats why I deleted it. Remember that Google brings up every amount of hype, about everything, but in particular about sex and drugs and Rock'n'Roll and Redneck-o-pedia materials, and maybe some Hollywood antics. To include it in an encyclopedic text would really mean that we align ourselves with the least common denominator. Its merely entertaining, but material for another type of collection with a lower expectation. 70.137.173.82 (talk) 20:32, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

That is fine. I am not emotionally committed to having that phrase in the article. I simply happened to see an alternative name removed by an IP and did a quick Google search. That search turned up many hits that, at the time I thought indicated it is a relatively common trivial name, so thought it should be included in the article if it is a term that any significant portion of the population is familiar with. I personally am not familiar with this usage, and was not familiar with the fact that it is a neologism. That being the case, I have no problem letting the removal of the term stand, as I accept your explanation that it is a non-notable neologism. The Seeker 4 Talk 20:44, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Criminal use

I would like someone with proper expertise to clarify this point since I believe it is indeed possible to get poisoned through contact. My source is personal experience. I live in Caracas and was a victim once of a rob attempt with this drug. By the way, most people in Venezuela do not consider the criminal use of "burundanga" to be an urban legend. I know people that have been victims. In my case, the effects of the drug were disorientation and a great difficulty to think clearly. It lasted for about an hour. In the end I also felt a tingling in my hand (the part of my body exposed to the drug).

In the interest of objectivity, if proper confirmation about this topic is not found, I believe the best thing to do is to remove all mention about criminal use from the article. Claiming it is just an "urban legend" is not acceptable either for an encyclopedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.211.30.244 (talk) 22:20, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Scopolamine Use in 1929 in Paris

According to Janet Flanner (Genêt), in her book Paris was Yesterday (1925-1939), which is a collection of her New Yorker items and published by Viking in 1972 and later in paperback by Penguin in 1979, Prince Yussupoff was accused of poisoning, with scopolamine, the family of Princess Demidoff at regular tea parties, producing,

"on her noble family, and all their tea-drinking friends -- a state of complete stupidity which none of these aristocrats found strange. Memory vanished, general conversation lagged, the two children dropped beind in their studies and became unable to add two and two without exciting comment from their proud parents. Casual guests popping in for a le five-o'clock were led back to their limousines in a state of complete imbecility; and an aunt, the Duchesse de Luynes, fell lat on her face after having sipped a cup of weak Orange Pekoe ('which was abnormal for Her Grace').
from page 51 of the Penguin edition

--rchrd (talk) 19:40, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Irritable bowel syndrome, hyoscine

I removed this reference. It turns out that the given study (review article in BMJ) claims use of "hyoscine". But following their references it turns out that their references were using and talking about "hyoscine butylbromide" or "scopolamine butylbromide", which is the quaternary base Butylscopolaminium bromide (namely Butylscopolamine bromide) and has no central effect! The cited study as well as their sources used "scopolamine" as a synonym for "scopolamine butylbromide" also, claiming they would be the same, obviously unaware that these are two different drugs, as the quaternary base has no central effect and is indeed not scopolamine! They obviously thought the butylbromide is just another salt of scopolamine. I have to ask myself where MDs learn chemistry. This is horrible. See article Butylscopolamine, as in "Buscopan". So the ref as well as THEIR cited sources are wrong! 70.137.141.96 (talk) 13:49, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

See also here for example of their raw material for meta analysis. They call hyoscine butylbromide "hyoscine"

http://www.labdominguez.com.ar/informes/nulite/articulo.pdf

As you can see they talk about "hyoscine 30mg" and "hyoscine 40mg" in Table 1. This would result at least in one week of delirium if they really had used hyoscine, more likely in a coma followed by one week of delirium. 70.137.141.96 (talk) 14:21, 28 July 2011 (UTC)