Talk:List of battery sizes

Battery sizes or just some battery sizes?

I'm seeing a repeating pattern here, that could do with addressing directly. Is this 'list of battery sizes' article a list of battery sizes, or is it a list of just some sizes? Personally it makes more sense to me to list them all, but give the popular and current ones their own section near the top for easy access.

Why list all?

1. firstly it is the title of the article, if one wants to create a 'popular battery sizes' one can
2. people come to this article for various reasons, including often to identify obsolete or uncommon battery types
3. the info on uncommon & obsolete battery types is certainly useful, some of us are still running electronics from the 1920s, 30s, 50s etc
4. the old data doesnt cause a problem if its kept in a separate section from popular batteries

So... I vote for them all here Tabby (talk) 09:44, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Not all. There's tens of thousands of battery models out there. Let's try and keep our vaulting ambition down to those sizes made by several manufacturers; no-one cares if the Binford company made a 6100 cell ( 7 sided, with wire terminals) from 1914 through 1916 that only fit their particular flashlight. --Wtshymanski (talk) 22:45, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm totally with Tabby here. An encyclopedia is exactly the kind of the place that should list information on old, obsolete and extinct battery types, not just the latest. All this information, even the abstruse, is important, both for the sake of history as well as being a useful source of technical data.

Mr Wtshymanski: "no-one cares" !!! O.K., you don't care, but many of us come to this encyclopedia hoping to find exactly this kind of information ! (I haven't yet looked at the article on the Binford company. But I will !) Darkman101 (talk) 17:19, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

We can't even get this present subset list properly referenced. Some of the recent additions are just rumors and folklore on the order of "What was that funny little battery we used to see in the shops when I was a child before the War?" level of reminescence. Please add any battery type that was a) actually made and b) for which you can find a good reference. All those UM-prefixes that the British used to use are very badly documented in the books to which I have access, for example. If you can find a document for an obsolete type that gives its designation, size, chemistry, and perhaps some indication of what it was used for, great. But let's try and keep it to reasonably widespread obsolete types, not one-offs. --Wtshymanski (talk) 17:38, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

ever-ready gas lighter batteries

There used to be a class of dry zinc-carbon battery called a "4 inch" cell. Although very common in the 1900s, by the 1950s I only ever saw them used with a gas lighter. The battery case itself was cylendrical, around 2 inches in diameter and 4 inches long, and threaded at the top. There was a central button contact on that face. The gas lighter screwed over that end of the battery and had a black bakelite button that pressed a contact onto the centre electrode. A narrow, cranked, arm extended from the cap, and ended in a small slotted metal tube with a hot-wire element in it. When the button was pressed it glowed white hot and could be used to ignite coal gas.

I certainly sold them up to about 1975, but I believe that they did not work in areas of the country converted to "natural gas" from the early 1960s onwards.

I can find no on-line reference to these at all, yet they, and the igniters, must have been one of Ever-Ready's longest lasting products.--Brunnian (talk) 21:42, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Archived old discussions

Old discussions are in Talk:List of battery sizes/Archive 1. --Wtshymanski (talk) 17:14, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

CR223

I'm surprised this size isn't included here - a current Duracell product. --195.137.93.171 (talk) 01:38, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

B cell

According to [1], the B size cell was in the 1934 ASA (now ANSI} standard but is no longer manufactured. It should not be in the list of common cell sizes. That reference says that an ASA B cell was 3/4 inch diameter and 2 1/8 inches long. --Wtshymanski (talk) 18:31, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

NATO 6T Battery

Might want to add the NATO 6T battery to some article. The military “6T” battery case is the vehicular battery used across the U.S. and NATO militaries. The 6T size is used in 95 percent of military vehicles, and the military bought about 700,000 of the batteries in 2008, the latest figures available. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/11/rechargeable-batteries-get-boost/ Sbmeirow (talk) 23:15, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Lead-Acid Vehicle Batteries

I think there should be at least a reference to car batteries, BCI and their "group" designations. As it is, someone who ends up at this article looking for information on car battery sizes will find nothing helpful. I'm not sure where in the article it should go, though. Some previous discussion on this topic was archived: Lead-Acid Batteries (1), Lead-Acid Batteries (2). I agree there's probably no need to try to include the actual table of BCI designations in Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.221.140.12 (talk) 01:16, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

6LF22

I've never seen a flat alkaline cell and my books only describe 9V alkaline batteries as made up of six cylindrical cells. Who makes a 6LF22? Reference? --Wtshymanski (talk) 04:51, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Voltages please, in this table

In the table in the section "Less common batteries: Cylindrical single-cell", please would someone add a column giving the voltage of each type ? Thanks. Darkman101 (talk) 09:28, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Don't you think that would be redundant with all the other places where we give votlages for different types of battery? This article is about sizes, not voltages. Depending on chemistry an AA-size battery could be rated anywhere from 1.2 to 3.7 volts; it would be tedious and repetitive to give all the permutations for each size, plus I'm not sure that every size is made in every chemistry. --Wtshymanski (talk) 14:29, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

All the other tables of the less common battery sizes give the voltage, even of the different types. Why not here ? Although this article is nominally about sizes, it is plain common sense for an article about batteries to give the voltages ! This table already gives the typical mAh capacity rating, as do the others, which is also dependent on battery chemistry. All of this is exactly the kind of information wanted by people who come to this encyclopedia. Darkman101 (talk) 16:43, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

The capacity varies by size (duh!) but the terminal voltage does not, only by chemistry. The article is about sizes, not about chemistry and voltage. Goodness knows that's variety enough, would we be helping the reader by making this article 5 times bigger by listing the NiMh, NiCd, carbon-zinc, alkaline, nickel-zinc, lead-acid, primary lithium, and Li-Ion voltages every time for every size? And not every chemistry is made in every size. It's plain common sense not to waste the reader's time telling him the same things over and over again. --Wtshymanski (talk) 17:44, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

-

What he means is that such information is already placed in the axplanation text above the table, it is not in each aditional cell, but in the text, before the table, it already states the voltage for the battery types contained in the below table. ☩Damërung ☩. -- 18:02, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

New type: 14500

I have added the 14500 type, but in the 18650 section, as I don't know how to insert a new section between previous sections. If anyone knows how (and thinks it matters), please shunt the info into its own section. Darkman101 (talk) 16:50, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, I want some of these for my new Quark AA flashlight (although I can't explain why I "need" it to be any brighter). There are enough of these rechargeable types that I think it's worth the hassle of configuring a table for them all. That could also collect the LiIon variants of the lithium primary types, too. Do you have a citation to add to the article (maker's catalog page, something)? --Wtshymanski (talk) 17:57, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi Mr Wtshymanski, thanks for raising up the table. But please can we have a voltage column ? That's exactly what people come to a reference work for ! It's a fundamental battery defining specification, and absolutely vital, precisely because the same sizes can have widely differing voltages ! Other tables on the page have the various voltages and capacities for each different type. In the comments box, may I suggest replacing "alkaline" with "3 Volt" ? (And put a "u" in "reglate" !)

I did a quick google and found a 14500 manufacturer's data sheet at saftbatteries.com if that's any good, please insert it if you think its OK:

http://www.saftbatteries.com/doc/Documents/primary/Cube655/LS%2014500_0408_revised_0908.58ecd0c2-6b62-44ca-8c7e-609aae0d25e7.pdf

If you want 14500's, they are available very cheaply from China on Ebay, (just stick the number in the search box), inc. with chargers. Darkman101 (talk) 18:57, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Careful, that SAFT data sheet is for a primary (non-rechargeable) battery. Not only does it make for a very expensive run in a flashlight, but it looks like it is limited to around 70 mA discharge, which makes for dim lights. I'd like to see manufacturer's data sheets, a wall of Chinese retailers is all I get when I Google the part numbers. --Wtshymanski (talk) 19:49, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Moved from article

This needs a lot more detail - dimensions? Who made them? Where and when were they popular? --Wtshymanski (talk) 20:10, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

AD series A series of heavy duty 1.5v cells for powering valve filaments. Later saw use for starting glowplug engines.

• AD4
• several others

Rechargeable Li Ion cyclindrical

There's probably scores of different sizes. Could we get some references that identify which possible dimensions are actually made? --Wtshymanski (talk) 14:11, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Button Cells table confusing

The "Button cells (silver oxide and alkaline)" table is confounding things. In the "Other Common Names" column many alkaline batteries are listed - implying they are "SR" batteries. I believe many folks come looking at this table to figure out the batteries to buy for old cameras, etc... So it would be best to not imply that an LR44 or A-76 cell is a suitable battery for a SR76 requirement. --Dr UNIX (talk) 07:09, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

How would you tell the reader this? There is a great long enormous paragraph that prattles on about the differences between silver oxide and alkaline cells and why you shouldn't believe the girl behind the pharmacy counter who will try to sell you a battery that fits. A list of battery sizes is barely tolerable as an encyclopedia "article" anyway, let's not pad it extravagantly by making it 5 times longer and repeating all the tables for all the different chemistries. If you don't know the difference between silver oxide and alkaline, and the large diatribe at the top of the table doesn't remind you that you should, then two (three?) tables aren't going to help. --Wtshymanski (talk) 14:51, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Mergefrom

CR2032

Suggest merge from CR2032; all the facts from that article are already given here, with links to Button cell and Lithium battery; it gives undue weight to a particlar size of battery. --Wtshymanski (talk) 13:50, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

N battery

Suggest merge from N battery; all the facts from that article are already given here. A single size of battery is not a topic notable enough to need an encyclopedia article. --Wtshymanski (talk) 13:58, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

D battery

Suggest merge from D battery. All the facts from that article are already given here. A single size of flashlight battery is not a topic notable enough to warrant an article. --Wtshymanski (talk) 14:47, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose all three. These proposed merges cannot possibly be an improvement. The number of items collated here dictates minimal details for each; more notable examples (such as the three above) are best presented in summary with expanded detail in their own separate articles, as we have. Indeed, as Wikipedia grows it may become appropriate to spin off more of these into separate articles. There is no benefit in having everything on one big page. RichardOSmith (talk) 17:03, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
  • I'd agree with you, if there was anything substantial that can be said about a size of flashlight battery. I don't think there is, and my searches with Google Books and Google Scholar have yet to show an non-trivia, in-depth discussion of a particular size of flashlight batteries. --Wtshymanski (talk) 18:05, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

• Moderately oppose: while the three pages don't have a huge amount of content not already in the "list" page, they do have some. For example the discussion of the different characteristics of of the BR2032 on the CR2032 page (although you can find some of the on the Lithium battery page. But for the common sizes, the dedicated articles are *much* more user friendly than the list, which, IMO, is reason enough to retain them. Rwessel (talk) 23:32, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
• I don't understand what's more "friendly" about stubby descriptions? Certainly if I had some overwhelming desire to learn more about some random size of a flashlight battery I wuold be disappointed if all I found was the diameter, length, and mA hour rating unders ome unspecified conditions - I can get that from the table. --Wtshymanski (talk) 13:26, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
• Note. Nominator has additionally proposed merging CR2032 to Button cell (See Talk:Button_cell#Suggest_merge). That there are two potential merge candidates being proposed is a good indicator the article should remain freestanding. RichardOSmith (talk) 13:48, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
• Somewhat support The nominator has the right to make any suggestion he or she likes. It makes sense to me that each general type of battery should have an article, while each size within that type does not need one. On the other hand articles in individual batteries (D cell for instance) do no harm and might be useful if someone wanted specific data on that size. Jaque Hammer (talk) 07:43, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose all three Just a cursory look at D battery found some historical information that does no appear in this article. Proposer has clearly not carefully researched the claim that "all the facts...are already given here". A reader who has typed "D battery" into the search box is pretty much certain not to be looking for acres of information on silver button cells. A short article focused on the exact search term is quite helpful. SpinningSpark 11:41, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

I would also point out that the title of this article is List of battery sizes. A list by its nature will not contain all possible information on each entry. If it is continually expanded with merged in information it will no longer be a list (which this article is in some danger of already). SpinningSpark 11:48, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

This is an inherent problem with a "list of parts" article of any kind; there's no clear-cut way to determine which parts are notable and which parts are just catalog line items. There's nothing notable about any particular size of battery, at least from the perspective of a general purpose encyclopedia. --Wtshymanski (talk) 17:52, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

LR297

I have an LR297 here in my hand. Should it be included here? --Winelight (talk) 07:20, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Short answer: yes. But are you sure you don't have an LR927? But if you do have an LR297, can you provide any sort of link describing the thing? I can't seem to find any such creature. What type of cell is it? What's it used for? Rwessel (talk) 08:03, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Oh and a pic, A pic is never bad. It is certainly an unusual idea and probably proprietary for some specific device? Do tell us more.--Lead holder (talk) 18:02, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Maximum off-load voltage

It took me some time to find out this information when creating my own battery pack. Would it be good to list the "Maximum off-load voltage" section of the specs to this Battery size article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.114.90.60 (talk) 12:51, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Standard OCVs are in the IEC standard for common battery types and many manufacturer datasheets also show the OCV. This could be added, it's up to you, it won't do any harm to do so, but it may not be that important a piece of information. I'm an inclusionist, so I say add anything you have and we'll see what happens over time. If you do add, use the existing voltage columns if they are present otherwise add it to comments.--Lead holder (talk) 14:14, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I definitely second this idea. It is very useful to know the maximum V you can expect from, for example, a Ni-Cad cell, which is nominally 1.2 Volts, but can reach 1.45 Volts open circuit when fully charged. Darkman101 (talk) 04:42, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

But voltage isn't related to size - size is related to size. This is an article about battery sizes. Or do you propose to list every chemistry system voltage for each size? Isn't that a lot of useless repetition? A nickel-cadmium cell produces the same voltage in a button battery or in a D-size cell. --Wtshymanski (talk) 04:56, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Very true, and there are articles for different chemistries, if it is desired then it would be more appropriate in those articles. I'm not against it's inclusion either here or in chemistry articles though.--Lead holder (talk) 09:53, 24 July 2011 (UTC)