Talk:Linotype machine

Etaoin Shrdlu Keyboard?

Does anybody have a picture or diagram showing the etaoin shrdlu keyboard layout? http://static.flickr.com/82/214724189_4adf1d6985_m.jpg i don't know if that link works but i couldn't get the picture it self to show. hope this helps

The Etaoin Shrdlu article has a better picture.-- era (Talk | History) 07:58, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Merger

This sounds like a great idea. Also, in my opinion, the article "Linotype Machine" gives a better description of the actual working process of the machine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.53.78.141 (talk • contribs) 2005-12-30

No, Linotype should be about the company and its trade, and Linotype machine talks about the machine (duh!!) 218.102.218.250 02:05, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Let's transfer all the text about the machine from Linotype to this article Linotype machine, and write a new text dealing with the Linotype company for Linotype.

Arbo 12:34, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

The two articles should be merged to be consistent with the Monotype articles, which are merged.

Quis

Oppose. In this century, it's far more likely that people would seek information on Linotype GmbH, the type foundry, than on the relic typesetting machine of yore. Yes, Linotype and its machine share a history, but the two artcles are best kept
separate, IMHO. —Down10 ^TACO 00:30, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Also oppose. They are separate topics and deserve separate entries. As long as each is prominently linked to the other, I see no reason to merge. Perhaps the Monotype articles should be unmerged (and someone could dig up a Monotype machine pic, pretty please). Rivertorch 07:44, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Oppose merging linotronic which is a whole different kettle of fish. - DavidWBrooks 16:51, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Oppose this also. It would be analogous to merging Mustang with Model T. Rivertorch 21:21, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps instead of redirecting a search for "Linotype" to Mergenthaler Linotype Company, maybe it should be directed to the Linotype Machine article instead. TIE53 17:33, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Terminology

I've never seen the terms 'hot type' and 'cold type' used here in the UK. When I was at printing college in the 1970s and working in the industry later, we always called it 'hot metal' and 'coldsetting' or more normally 'photosetting' or 'phototypesetting.' Are the hot type/cold type terms recognised in other countries, or should they be changed to hot metal/coldsetting? Simoneccles 04:27, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

They are the terms in the U.S. The article needs to reflect the different terminology on either side of the pond. - DavidWBrooks 13:58, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

"Hot metal" is used in the US as well, as evidenced by an early HTML composition system that punned on the name (simultaneously punning on HTML, of course).

Atlant 16:23, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Ahh, here we are: HoTMetaL.

Atlant 22:31, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

The only term I have ever seen is "hot metal". Not "hot type". Paul Koning 14:40, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

These paragraphs need to be rewritten and detailed photos included

I don't know anything about Linotypes so I cannot correct these sentences, but they are too technical for someone who has never seen a linotype machine to get a good idea of what is going on. Terms need to be defined, and where possible avoid using technical terms when a general description would do. Detailed images of the components would really really help.

" This delivery channel would then transfer the composed line into the 'first elevator' which then positions the matrices and spacebands in front of the mold. The matrices would be aligned, then the justification levers would rise to expand the spacebands as needed, then the line would be 'locked up' against the mold and the slug is cast."

"The complexity of a Linotype machine was necessary not just so that it would place matrices in the proper place as the operator typed on the keyboard, but so it could return the matrices to the proper channels (slots) in the magazine in preparation for their next usage. This was vital, because returning letters to the proper part of a case (termed "redistribution") is the slowest and most difficult part of setting type by hand. The Linotype machine used a clever design of 7 binary-coded notches on each matrix (the notches corresponding to their position within the main 90-channel or the 34-channel 'auxiliary' magazines). Certain seldom-used characters (referred to as 'pi' matrices or simply 'sorts') had none of the teeth on the matrix notched, so they would proceed the entire length of the distribution" Cshay 23:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree, but the machine is really quite complex and it's very difficult to do it justice in an acceptable size article. Diagrams might help. I have a source that may be old enough for its copyrights to have expired, will check.

To make matters worse, what's described in the article is the simplest variant of the Linotype machine. If you look at features like four-magazine mixed composition -- where the distribution has to separate out the different fonts first and then the different characters -- things get more complex yet. Paul Koning 14:40, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I don't think the length of the article is any concern. It's just a lot of work to document how this thing works in an easy to understand manner. Cshay 20:35, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I'll give it a try when I can. I have a good reference manual. Its copyright hasn't expired yet as I understand it (it's from 1940), but I can use the text for information. And it might be that there are public domain pictures available -- perhaps in the Mergenthaler patent. Paul Koning 21:32, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Correction: that copyright of that manual did expire, because it wasn't renewed when the renewal time came up (1968). There are also useful pictures in a number of Mergenthaler patents. Paul Koning 16:51, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm working on an update. Comments welcome. See User:Paul Koning/work. Paul Koning 14:23, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Done. There now are lots of pictures -- enough that some end up all the way at the bottom of the text, at least in my browser. I tried <gallery> but that didn't do what I wanted, at least not in some quick tests. Improvements of all kinds would be much appreciated. Paul Koning (talk) 17:21, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Popular Culture

Any interest in one of these sections? I just found a short story by Frederic Brown. Etaoin Shrdlu. Included in The Best of Frederic Brown: Ballantine, 1977. Earlier Publication Unknown Worlds, February 1942 by Street & Smith Publications. TaoPhoenix (talk) 01:50, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

It's listed in the "popular culture" section of ETAOIN SHRDLU. I think duplicating that section here is unnecessary. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 14:05, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

where have all the mergenthalers gone?

always found their clackety-clack soothing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.69.148.219 (talk) 18:29, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Alloy proportions?

The article Casting section says, The continuous heating of the molten alloy causes the tin and antimony in the mixture to slowly boil off, resulting in a softening of the alloy as the lead concentration increases. The mixture must then be assayed and tin and antimony added back to restore the original alloy toughness.

This is a good start, but what is the correct proportion of lead, tin, and [antimony]] in the molten alloy?

Also, when the type slugs have been used for printing, and the metal is returned to be used again, it is generally melted again, and in the process burning off any ink or impurities, and tin and antimony is added, and cast into bars or pigs for use in the machines. This should be explained somewhere, perhaps in the Linotype alloy article, which should cover both the proportions and the need to remelt the used slugs. --DThomsen8 (talk) 23:51, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

The Hot metal typesetting article covers the remelting process. It does not say anything about the proportions.--DThomsen8 (talk) 00:08, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

how is the linotype machine distinct from the older monotype machine?

And where does one find typesetters that use either machine in the year 2011? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.23.209.25 (talk) 23:18, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

pages

Not a technical Linotype issue, but I find this sentence "Before Mergenthaler's invention of the Linotype in 1884, no newspaper in the world had more than eight pages." to be nearly impossible to believe, although I cannot prove it is wrong.

Some might say this reflects a lack of imagination on your part rather than any indication of whether the statement is correct or not. The statement does, however, need a citation. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 12:28, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Actual inventor?

I just ran across an advertisement in a 1921 Wake Forest College newspaper describing the history of the linotype. The advertisement is for The Record Publishing Co. in Zebulon, N.C., presumably the town's own newspaper. That history claims a Zebulon man invented the linotype process and sold it to Mergenthaler, a lawyer, who then developed it into a workable machine. If the story is true, it seems the man who sold the idea, one William Foster, deserves at least part of the credit. Check it out here, (scroll to page 4 and you'll see the ad): http://dspace.zsr.wfu.edu/jspui/bitstream/10339/3534/1/1941-10-17.pdf. 69.134.180.125 (talk) 07:27, 7 October 2011 (UTC)David Eliot Leone, Associate Editor, The Wake Forest Weekly.