Talk:School counselor

Recommendation for cleanup

• The discussion on high school guidance counselors is great. However, make sure to use punctuation correctly when quoting articles.

• I'm not sure my article needs cleanup.

I am. You shouldn't be using "smart quotes". The paragraphs are too long. Also, please read [[WP:~~~~]]. r3m0t ^talk 09:06, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

*I have read the signature talk page, it says that you should sign your talk pages--which I do usually, I just forgot or something happened in this case. As for smart quotes, I did not realize I used smart quotes. And how are my paragraphs too long? --whicky1978 03:51, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC).

*The headings are formatted incorrectly. The links were formatted incorrectly. The paragraphs are too long. It only mentions the US. r3m0t ^talk 08:46, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

• You may consider redrafting the first paragraph where Frank Parsons is mentioned. Generally speaking, Frank Parsons name is linked with 1909, when his book was published. You are correct, however, in noting that he founded his community-based program in 1908. (He died before it ever opened its doors though). You may check out Sweeney's chapter in the Locke, Herr, and Myers (2003) Handbook of Counseling and/or Herr's chapter in Brad Erford's 2003 book, Transforming the School Counseling Profession. As an aside, I applaud you for taking on the task of trying to explain school counseling internationally. This is not easy as educational and vocational guidance exist widely, but school counseling with a personal/social, career, educational emphasis is not as widespread. DMParedes 21:57, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Long paragraphs

• I don't think the paragraphs are too long, unless there is some rule. It only mentions the U.S. because I only know about the U.S., and I have searched the internet, and it seems that only the U.S. has school counselors. Also, there are no school counselors in North Korea. School Counseling may be an american thing, itf's history is rooted in Anmerican government and American history. Other countries maybe have something similar like career guidance counselors, but they don't have the exact same thing. Even more, they probably don't have counselors k-12, but only high school. If you mean my links in my references, they are in APA style, in fact the whole article resembles APA style. Also, how are my headings wrong? --whicky1978 06:02, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

External links

• I have changed the external links so they spell out the website.--whicky1978 06:08, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

• • I changed the links before I notice the edit. There is a strong argument in favor of spelling out links. The www is in constant change, and websites change or disappear. Also, some people may require to cut and past the link. Sure, it is possible to do this without it, but not everbody is computer literate.

School counseling abroad

• Although I have searched the professional literature on school counseling in other countries and the WWW, but came up empty. I am going to add a section stub on the topic. whicky1978 06:24, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC) 06:17, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

Request for peer review

I have requested that this article be peer revied, in regards to content, it needs to be reviewed by those knowlegible in the field, i.e. school counselors. whicky1978 06:24, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

Simple English Version

I know that wikipedia has a simple English version, and I plan to make an article for that, so I don't see why these paragraphs are too long. whicky1978 06:25, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

Peer Review Request

The Peer Review Request has been removed, because it was never completed. Does that mean that I am the only school counseling expert on wikipedia?--whicky1978 15:40, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

I have re-added the peer review request, and I have asked for help with this article from others on the ASCA message board. I have asked them to edit this page thierself, or give me the info. to edit it.whicky1978 18:39, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Since I'm new to this, I am a bit unsure as to how to edit things so I simply will leave a message and info this way. I am a school counselor and psychologist in California. First of all, while it is true indeed that California only requires school counselors to have a bachelor's degree as far as degrees go, we are subject to practicum hours (in a graduate program) and must meet criteria in order to obtain the required Pupil Personnel Services credential in School Counseling so that we can work in the schools.

I am a School Counselor Educator, and will help. Kukini 17:57, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

I am a graduate student in a Masters in School Counseling Program in California, and the article looks pretty accurate to me. I will graduate in May 2006, and all of the job postings I have looked at require a Masters; however, the state of California may not require it. You could include references to the ASCA National Model and National Standards, as well as Gysbers and Hendersons model for a comprehensive program.

added more info.

I have added more info. and expanded the school counseling article, I have also added a pictures. More pictures would be helpful. Also, if we expanded the sections for elementary, middle, and high school counselor, or school counseling aborad, then I think we could take a shot, and apply for "featured article" status.whicky1978 18:37, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Nominations

This article qualifies as a Class A article. It is well referenced with scholarly sources, it is peer reviewed, and it has a google ranking of 19, MSN of 35, and Yahoo! ranking of two. It attempts to be NPOV by including school counseling abroad as well as th US.whicky1978 ^talk 19:49, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Nearly 100 million hits with google, when you add spelling variations. And search for synonyms such as guidance counselor or educational counselor.

Comments from Version 0.5 review

I wanted to pass this for Version 0.5, I have certain reservations. The article is heavily weighted towards the US, and this is fairly reasonable if the overview "mainly in the US and Canada" is true. That leaves me with a couple of unanswered questions, though:

1. What is the situation in Canada (professional bodies, certification, differences from US, etc)? I didn't notice any mention of this.
2. How is this role covered in other countries? I find it hard to believe that the rest of the word finishes school without a word of advice from someone - who is that someone? In the UK, for example, I believe that the person is called a "career adviser" (may be spelt advisor) (such as this person). I have no idea what these people are called in France, Germany, Japan, South Africa, India, China, Eqypt, but I expect they exist - perhaps as a tutor, or a designated teacher.

I'd like to include the article in Version 0.5, we need more general articles on education areas, but it really needs to cover the perspectives from some other countries. If you find the right book it should cover this. I have held the nomination open in the hope you can fix this soon. Thanks, Walkerma 03:35, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps the French Wikipedia article could help with the French perspective? Walkerma 03:05, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

It seems this problem will take a while to address, so we won't be including the article in V0.5. If you can get a wider viewpoint, please nominate it for a later version, we would like to include it! Walkerma 16:19, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Education category

I see EVERY reason why School Counselors belong in the education category and no reason why it does not. Please do not revert the category without discussion and consensus. Thank you, Kukini 19:03, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

After looking over the category, it appears to be quite narrowed from what I thought it was. There appear to be no other professional educational disciplines in the general category. I am thus reverting myself. Kukini 19:40, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Possibly the solution is to create School counseling (counselling?) as a subcategory of education in the same way as Educational psychology or Educational philosophy. And then School counselor would be categorized under both Education and School counseling by virtue of it being the main article for the new category. This presumes that School counseling currently redirects to School counselor (I haven't checked). Sorry if this seems convoluted. Nesbit 19:52, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Great feedback! I will look into doing this. School counseling does redirect to School counselor at present. Kukini 19:59, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, good. It would still be a minor anomaly because, as you say, it is the only occupation at the top level. But it's pretty easy to defend because the School counselor article is the main article for the whole field of school counseling, which, as a category, will probably grow over the years to include many articles. Another advantage of this solution is that it gives a more precise categorization of School psychology which would then be categorized under both Educational psychology and School counseling. The way to make the whole thing completely consistent would be to rename the article School counseling, but I can see some reasons why you might not want to do that and it's really not necessary in my opinion. Nesbit 20:15, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the following redirect to "school counselor": Guidance counselor, guidance counsellor, educational counselor, educational counsellor, school counseling, and school counselling. I made sure of that when I first wrote it.whicky1978 ^talk 00:33, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Good article?

Who listed this as a good article? It's completely US-centered, with a tiny section about "international" counseling. The word "international" is used here in the sense of "not American"; which is ridiculous for a global encyclopedia, considering the meaning of "international" (that is "between nations", but the section only explains a Korean domestic policy). Perhaps it should be moved to "School counselors in the United States"; meanwhile it will have a bias template.--cloviz 19:47, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

There is no worldwide view on the subject. The occupation is popular as proved by search engine rankings, but is not found worldwide as it is described in the article. Therefore, there is no bias. Unfortunately, no one seems available to provide internation expertise on the subject.whicky1978 ^talk 03:58, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Also, I have made attempts to globalize the article by posting in ASCA's forum, but with little sucess.whicky1978 ^talk 05:51, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

This article is currently at Good Article Review. Teemu08 07:50, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

The rationale that this article is written only from an American perspective is a tad problematic as, to my knowledge, there are no (or very few, if any) school counseling associations outside the United States to date and that school counseling itself is an American-based profession. Thus, the argument that this article fails the broadness criteria is based on a pretty limited perspective of school counseling. Kukini ^{hablame aqui} 22:07, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Only in America is student support called 'school counselling'. In the UK, it is still usually called pastoral care and the role is carried out by practising teachers called Heads of Year or Heads of House. My international school in Hong Kong calls it student development and the role is carried out by Heads of College. Every school in the world has some kind of system to support the well-being of their students and they should all be reflected in this article. The title of 'School Counsellor' might be reasonably particular to the US, but the job and the duties are not.92.6.73.229 (talk) 01:11, 16 August 2011 (UTC)SamR

GA Review

In a 6 to 2 vote, this article has been delisted, in addition to the American perspective thing as the primary rationale, there were also a few other concerns. Review archived here: Wikipedia:Good article review/Archive 16. Homestarmy 18:11, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Not an American website.

Umm, I'm finding that this page is dedicated to the US only. The existance of a section titled "in other countries" proves that the rest of the article is done from the wrong perspective. Let's not be biased here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.151.255.102 (talk) 19:26, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to add from other perspectives. It does seem that the globalize tag is a bit of an overstatement, as school counseling is far more predominant in the US than anywhere else. People have made efforts to internationalize this and I am sure will continue to do so as the information arises. I am removing the tag as it seems somewhat heavy-handed. --Kukini ^{háblame aquí} 00:28, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Only in America is student support called 'school counselling'. In the UK, it is still usually called pastoral care and the role is carried out by practising teachers called Heads of Year or Heads of House. My international school in Hong Kong calls it student development and the role is carried out by Heads of College. Every school in the world has some kind of system to support the well-being of their students and they should all be reflected in this article. The title of 'School Counsellor' might be reasonably particular to the US, but the job and the duties are not. 92.6.73.229 (talk) 01:13, 16 August 2011 (UTC)SamR

First Paragraph Needs to be Rewritten

The first paragraph seems like something out of a cheezy brochure and doesn't say much that is intelligible or meaningful. I'd hope someone who knows more about the subject than me might rewrite it.--Nogburt (talk) 22:21, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Other countries do support their students...

Only in America is student support called 'school counselling'. In the UK, it is still usually called pastoral care and the role is carried out by practising teachers called Heads of Year or Heads of House. My international school in Hong Kong calls it student development and the role is carried out by Heads of College. Every school in the world has some kind of system to support the well-being of their students and they should all be reflected in this article. The title of 'School Counsellor' might be reasonably particular to the US, but the job and the duties are not. Perhaps the title and the contents of this page should be adapted to recognise the entire international educational teaching and learning community. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.6.73.229 (talk) 01:15, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

I would like to add a new reference but unsure how to do it

I would like to also add to the job growth paragraph: As of 2011, many positions in the school counseling field specifically in the United States have been eliminated due to budget cuts in the school system. In some areas, job competition is high for few positions. http://www.schoolcounselor.co

That is a .co (not a .com). CounselorMom (talk) 18:03, 30 August 2011 (UTC)