Talk:Hans Langsdorff

Did Langsdorff commit suicide?

I am not sure whether I should put it in the article, but in "La vraie vie d'Eva Peron" by Silvain Reiner (a documentry biography) I found the note about the La Plata battle and Hans Langsdorff. The author states that the suicide of Captain Langsdoff was faked. The only witnesses of putting Langsdorff's body into coffin were asailor from Admiral Graf Spee - Fisher and German attache. There was no doctor to confirm the death. In 1941 the coffin was transported to Germany and put in Gorlow (East Prussia), but when at the and of the war a group of allies' officers went there (they wanted to honour him, because he was respected by the enemies) it turned out that the coffin was empty. It is also said that Juan Peron had captain Langsdorff his guest in Calle Posadas. The book is not fiction, although everything looks much like conspiracy theory. Juan Peron might have invented the story or might have been misled by a fraud. On the other hand if Langsdorff wanted to commit suicide - he could have commited it immediately, not waiting two days.

Maybe other users can comment on it.

I also remember a film (British production on the Battle at the Rio de la Plata). The film was fiction, based on a true story. It said nothing about the suicide (real or faked). Maybe someone is able to say more about the film (it must be older than 1981, because that was the date I saw it on TV). Jasra 20:50, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

The film is The Battle of the River Plate (film), which I have just watched, it ends shortly after the scuttling, with no mention of what happens to Langsdorf afterwards. DuncanHill 18:52, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that any photos of his dead body were taken but it was widely reported at the time that he had committed suicide wrapped in the battle ensign from the Graf Spee. It was the old German Navy flag, not the Nazi flag. See main article. He waited a few days before committing suicide because he wanted to see all his men to safety first -- SteveCrook 14:03, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

"Nazi" who committed suicide?

Is Langsdorff correctly categorised under "Category:Nazis who committed suicide"? Is there any evidence he was a Nazi party member?

As I recall, there is much circumstantial evidence that he was not a Nazi (by conviction, at any rate). For example, his omission to give the Nazi salute at the funeral of his men - see http://www.maritimequest.com/daily_event_archive/2005/dec/17_admiral_graf_spee.htm

And also the fact that he committed suicide in the presence of the "kaiserlichen Reichskriegsflagge" (Imperial German flag, without the swastika).

Shouldn't he be removed from the "Category:Nazis who committed suicide" category? Todowd 19:01, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Agree. So you can remove him from this category. Jasra 22:56, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Death or Suicide

There's a sub-section headed "Death or Suicide". Is there any doubt that it was suicide? If there is then it should be mentioned. If there isn't then the heading should be changed -- SteveCrook 14:57, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Picture of Langsdorff saluting

The thing I missed the most in this article is the picture of Hans Langsdorff saluting at the funeral of his shipmates who had died at the battle of the river plate. Very telling is that everyone uses the 'Nazi salute', even the priests, except for Langsdorff who uses the 'normal' military salute. Another indicator that he wasn't a die-hard Nazi. As mentioned in the 'nazi who committed suicide piece' above. Sorry to have mentioned it again 212.136.56.20 11:01, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

What did the 'lucky hit' destroy ?

Article text says

This shell destroyed steam boilers needed to operate the ship’s fuel cleaning system

[Battle of River Plate] article repeats this, adding that this went un-revealed for 60 years
40 years ago, the standard version of why the Graf Spee was scuttled was that a lucky hit by a British shell had destroyed the Graf Spee's desalination equipment, leaving it with only ready stocks of drinking water, so that any further ocean-going was out of the question.
The fresh revelation looks much like the accepted wisdom of 40 years ago but with the nature of the lucky hit changed. Looking around at other websites, there seems general agreement that the desalination plant and kitchens were wrecked; relatively few mention oil-purification. I would have thought loss of desalination was the real show-stopper. Any thoughts ? Rjccumbria (talk) 18:05, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

The diesel fuel that ships used then (and largely still today) is much less refined than the product that is used in cars etc. The quantity of solids in the fuel is much higher and often so is the amount of water. If the fuel were fed in it's raw state into a high compression (diesel) engine it would cause serious damage which would eventualy disable or even destroy the engine. The solids would cause rapid wear of the injection nozzles which would reduce their efficiency and increase fuel consumption. Also if the solids were of a type not consumed in the combustion process (eg. sand) they would damage the cylinder walls and/or the exhaust valves. Water in the fuel when it turned to steam could cause damage to the engine through over-pressure, or through forcing it's way past the piston rings down into the engine sump contaminating the lubricating oil.

To remove the contamination several steps are taken in a ship's fuel supply system. First the fuel is taken from the bunker (bulk storage) tanks and put into a settling tank. As it's name suggests the fuel is allowed to lay undisturbed in the tank so the the heavy soilds and the bulk of the water being more dense will settle to the bottom. To speed the process the tank is heated using steam coils - pipes running through the fuel heated by steam from a boiler. On most ships the fuel will be in the settling tank for about 24 hours and the tank will hold slightly more than 24 hours fuel at maximum consumption.

For the next stage of the process, the fuel is heated to a higher temperature - again usually by steam coils in a thing similar to a water heater. It is then passed into a centrifuge (usually called a separator by ship's crews) which spins the fuel at high speed and causes the soilds and water to be separated from the good fuel. The cleaned fuel is then passed into a service tank which holds slightly over 24 hours consuption at maximum power.

The heat for this process as stated before is almost always steam. The boiler may use heat recovered from the engine exhaust or it may be separately fired using oil burners. Either way it will require a supply of distilled water as the use of anything else in the boiler will cause rapid deterioration of it's heating capacity and in all probability total failure through corrosion or poor circulation resulting in localized hot-spots.

Regarding the Graf Spee, it would not have mattered if the de-salination plant (which supplied water for the boiler), the boiler itself, or the fuel processing plant was destroyed, the result would have been the same. The ship would have been restricted to using firstly any fuel remaining in the service tank. The length of the action plus a rough guess at how much fuel was refined during the day pretty much coincides with the 16 hours fuel quoted as remaining to the ship (in the service tank) when it got to Montivedeo. After that they would probably get away with using the fuel from the settling tank - so another 24 hours. Then as they fed uncleaned fuel to the engines, taken from the bunker tanks, the ships speed would fall and the cumulative damage would destroy the engines. Without the intervention of the Royal navy I would guess they might manage to steam for 7 days before all the engines failed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.112.61.202 (talk) 21:25, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Battle of the River Plate secion -- amendment

I have amended slightly the 2nd para of this section. In the original draft it reads as though it was Germany which gave Langsdorff the various options as to what action he could take upon sailing out of Montevideo. In actual fact, Germany only told him that the ship was not to fall into enemy hands. The actual options were entirely Langsdorff's considerations.

207.47.210.54 (talk) 03:16, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

External links

Please add the following uploaded by National Geographic, here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1BU_GyiDNw

(btw, it contains considerable relevant info not in this article) ~Eric F 184.76.225.106 (talk) 21:37, 25 March 2012 (UTC)