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Affiliation between Epoka University and Bedër University

Dear User:Nomoskedasticity, dear User:Mdann52, the dispute over the affiliation between these two universities is silly, because they both openly admit their relationship on their webpages:

Epoka University: http://www.epoka.edu.al/?lang=EN&pid=4&newsid=356&ntitle=Epoka-University-and-H%EBna-e-Plot%EB-%28BED%CBR%29-University-Sign-Memorandum-of-Understanding
Bedër University: http://www.beder.edu.al/njoftime.php?kategoria=njoftime&nr=112

Beder's rector has previously served as Epoka's vice-rector and provost - he states this in his bio: http://www.beder.edu.al/faqe.php?kategoria=rreth-universitetit&hap=&sub=381

For the association between Epoka and Gulen, see this book: Muslim Cultures Today: A Reference Guide - 2006, Page 18, books.google.com/books?isbn=0313323860 Kathryn M. Coughlin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kcoughlin

The author, a respected Harvard scholar and president of a nonprofit dedicated to research on the Islamic world, discusses Gulen's "Mehmet Akif" schools in Tirana, which are high schools run by a company called Gulistan (notice the name): http://www.gulistan.edu.al/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=19&Itemid=27 and another company called "Turgut Ozal Education Company": http://turgutozal.edu.al/ Epoka University is the next level up these, as stated in their own webpage: http://www.epoka.edu.al/?lang=EN&pid=2&catid=1&menuid=2

Vetevendosje (talk) 17:11, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Gulen

Editors with concerns about the material on the Gulen movement in connection with this university are invited to discuss their concerns here. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 10:18, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dear User:Nomoskedasticity, I wanted to point out that the paper published by the person is just an assumption of his that this university might be connected to Gulen movement, and that does not make the university itself part of it. Related to the same article someone has written that most of the staff is connected with this movement (or finished universities), I have to say that again such assumption is not right. If there might have been one or some staff finishing there doesn't make an argument to do such a statement, if so then I have to say you could add also other movements into it. But in this way you are lowering the integrity of a university well known in Albania. For this reason, I would kindly ask you to remove those statements linking this university with a movement. Thank you, Eagly (talk) 17:26, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The source is unequivocal: "the new Turkish presence in the Balkans is most visible in the schools and universities of the Gülen network42 (such as the Burç University in Sarajevo and Epoka University in Tirana)..." We have to go by what the sources say; it is not up to Wikipedia editors to adopt the view that a source is incorrect unless there is contradictory evidence in another source. (Apart from that -- why is it "lowering the integrity" of the university to note the association?) Nomoskedasticity (talk) 18:45, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dear User:Nomoskedasticity, Epoka University's association with the Gulen Movement, as well as Beder University, is well documented in a number of sources, including many serious academic publications:

Just run a Google search. I have only included the least controversial ones in the article. I am not trying to start editing wars, I just want to write the objective truth. Anamericantragedy — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anamericantragedy (talk • contribs) 12:10, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Who is arguing otherwise? Certainly not I. But before you add references to this article, you'll need to learn Wikipedia's policy about "reliable sources". Nomoskedasticity (talk) 12:43, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, are the current sources in compliance with the Wikipedia's policy about "reliable sources"? If they aren't, I'd be happy to add other sources, etc. Apart from that, I do not like the fact that some Wiki editors are bothered by, and eager to conceal, the religious associations of Epoka University - which, as I showed above, are real. I'd be glad to know that you are not among them, but simply trying to preserve certain editing standards. Anamericantragedy (talk) 13:24, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Who is concealing anything?? In reverting your edit, I am not removing the assertion re Gulen that was already in the article before you arrived -- I am merely rejecting the sources you are bringing because they do not appear to comply with WP:RS. If you think they do, please make your case -- but be aware that WP:BRD is a widely accepted practice here. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 13:31, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dear User:Mdann52, The purpose of Wikipedia is not to have "stable" but reliable and truthful articles. Please do not delete the well referenced work of others. If you feel that the sources aren't reliable, you can modify them - above there is a long list of other sources that prove my point. Also, you can add a stamp. Anamericantragedy (talk) 13:29, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And, you can certainly NOT delete articles that are not to your personal liking. If you find that an entry is not objective according to Wikipedia criteria, please bring in alternative views (which I'm sure you can't find in this case).Anamericantragedy (talk) 13:34, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Remove redlinked image

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

‹ The template Edit fully-protected is being considered for merging. ›

Please remove File:Logo_of_Epoka_University.png. Ta. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 22:08, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done — Mr. Stradivarius ^{(have a chat)} 22:32, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Someone please remind me why this one is fully protected? If it was edit-warring -- then the edit-warriers should be blocked. Indefinite full protection is unacceptable. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 22:32, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 23:13, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've unprotected the page and will monitor it. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{(have a chat)} 10:18, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Gulen and "allegations"

Please discuss here the notion that the university is "nonsectarian" and that the Gulen assertion is merely an "allegation". Nomoskedasticity (talk) 18:21, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It is 'allegedly' as all the sources below, credible or not, are only hinting but NOT offering any direct proof: a document, a statement etc. Hence, if you want to apply WP:OR, we must add the word 'ALLEGEDLY'.

Second, if it were not non-sectarian, its operation would have been prohibited by law in Albania. Furthermore, many students including my son Gjergji have attended these schools, and do not have any affiliations with such movements and/or any religious community. If you have any doubt about that, then you should try and edit the homepage of Brandais University, Tulane, NYU, just to name a few.

I do understand your passion, but please understand that your persistence is worrisome and offensive to me and my family. Alas, I'm not the only one :-( — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.106.109.174 (talk) 10:20, 14 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid that's not how WP:V works. The source in question (there's only one being used) is unequivocal: "the new Turkish presence in the Balkans is most visible in the schools and universities of the Gülen network (such as the Burç University in Sarajevo and Epoka University in Tirana)...". That's not an "allegation", and for a Wikipedia editor (such as yourself) to use the word allegation when the source does not is WP:OR. The fact is, the assertion in our article is verified by a reliable source. If you wanted to raise meaningful questions about this, you'd have to produce another source that directly contradicts it. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 10:26, 14 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, the only thing those references are proving is the existence of allegations. Please call for help from serious editors on this.

@@ Line 74: / Line 74: @@
 :I do understand your passion, but please understand that your persistence is worrisome and offensive to me and my family. Alas, I'm not the only one :-(  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/79.106.109.174|79.106.109.174]] ([[User talk:79.106.109.174|talk]]) 10:20, 14 March 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
 ::I'm afraid that's not how [[WP:V]] works.  The [http://balkanmuslims.com/pdf/Oktem-Balkan-Muslims.pdf source in question] (there's only one being used) is unequivocal: "the new Turkish presence in the Balkans is most visible in the schools and universities of the Gülen network (such as the Burç University in Sarajevo and Epoka University in Tirana)...".  That's not an "allegation", and for a Wikipedia editor (such as yourself) to use the word allegation when the source does not is [[WP:OR]].  The fact is, the assertion in our article is [[WP:V|verified]] by a [[WP:RS|reliable source]].  If you wanted to raise meaningful questions about this, you'd have to produce ''another'' source that directly contradicts it.  [[User:Nomoskedasticity|Nomoskedasticity]] ([[User talk:Nomoskedasticity|talk]]) 10:26, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
+Unfortunately, the only thing those references are proving is the existence of allegations. Please call for help from serious editors on this.