Talk:Hindko

Pashto

Someone seems to keep editing this article with references to Pashtun or Pathan yet there is no relationship between Hindko/Hindkowan and Pashto/Pashtun. The latter are Iranian, the former are Punjabi (Indo-Aryan). Hindko/Hindkowan ARE a mix of Punjabi and another language/ethnicity, but that is Mirpuri to the Northeast, not Pashto to the West. There are many huge cultural differences between the Pashtun who tend to be Sunnis of the Deobandi variety whereas Hindkowans are usually Barelwi Sunnis. There has been historical animosity between the two. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.27.147.134 (talk) 06:59, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

This should probably be grouped under Mirpuri as a seperate sub-heading, seeing as how they're almost identical as far as actual language goes, yet both possessing obvious unique identities/names.

It is also not "mountain people language". Pahari or Potwari or Potohari all refer to the same group of languages, named for the mountainous area in which they commonly arose a long time ago. Modern day Hindko is spoken by Hindkowans which means "city-dwellers" because most of them moved south into the mid-northern Pakistani cities long ago, such as around Islamabad.

Hindko(Areas,Meaning,Some Phrases)Hindko is the main language in hazara division, it is also spoken in Attock and in the potohar plateau for e.g Islamabad and Rawalpindi but the hindko spoken in these cities is a mixture of Potohari and Hindko of Hazara Divsion it is more closer to Hindko. But some people in different areas speak hindko and they call it punjabi and the people with pure punjabi mother-tongue cannot understand them very well.

Some Sentences in Hindko.

Maan pata hai. (I Know)

Tudan pata hai. (You Know)

Khita Julian Hain. (Where are you going)

e.t.c

Hindko has punjabi roots and is a type of punjabi.The Hindko of Peshawar is different to Hindko in the Hazara Divison. Hindko of Attock is different to that of Swabi so after every 10 Km the Hindko changes a bit. For e.g the Hindko spoken in Islamabad is different to that spoken in Taxila.

According to my Knowledge Hindko means the Mountain of India so this is a pahari Language (Mountain people language). Hindko is somehow like seraiki aswell.Hindko and Sereiki have resemblence.

Hindko is a mixture of sereiki, Potohari, punjabi. Most of the words and from Potohari and sereiki and other Mountain laguages. There are some words from Pashto, but linguistically no connection. There is no connection to kashmiri which is dardic language.

Zarrigul (talk) 14:56, 16 August 2011 (UTC) Sir. Sorry to disagree with you. simple explaination is that every area new settlers changed the local language by adopting their own stypes. Awan's have only one dialect, Niazi's have their own dialect and Baluch and afghans common influence make the local languages as saraiki where as Sole Baluch influence comeup as Sindhi. The langauge is considered for its independant verbs not because of dialects. the term Hindko which perhaps is Indko got mis spelled historians without research. Why a dialect of lahore is not considered Hindko when they are so close to indian border but in KPK , the term Hindko is used. Is it not ample proof this terms is incorrect while we see District Indkai in Faryab province of Afghanistan which might be the place of Migration of the people today called as Indki (not Hindki) by Pashtuns as they migratted togethers. Most probbly they lost their original language after segregation by main tribes due to marriages with local girls. the same happend with Awan's, Niazi's, Tanoli's, Jadoon , Tarin's and Baluch of D.G.Khan and Sind. So this totaly paint a different picture. By the way The Rajputs and Barahman (To say Abrahaman would be more correct i think) also migretted to india from Afghanistan and central Asia and Sir. Kash is name of area (Ind- o- Kash) which is divided in 2 parts. the eastren and westren. Mar or Nmar mean Sun in the meaning of East . Kashmar/ Kashmir mean the eastren part of Kash and Kashghar mean westren part of Kash. Check it with map. you help me to translate a potohari sentence for me and find its resemblance with Indko, Kashmiri or punjabi. koor Gachrran ain . toora/tukrra khai gachain aZarrigul (talk) 14:49, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

"potwari-pahahri" is now called "Panjistani"

Can it be spelled "Hinko"?

Ran across that spelling in this New York Times article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/15/nyregion/15hospital.html

Ms. Khan, a Muslim, speaks Urdu, Pashto, Punjabi and Hinko, a Pakistani dialect she said was similar to Punjabi.

Not sure whether it was just a case of the journalist not knowing the correct spelling, or a legitimate alternative... --babbage (talk) 07:52, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

followup: I found a reference with this spelling: Journal of the Research Society of Pakistan. Adding it. --babbage (talk) 21:59, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

This pronunciation is common in Hazara. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.195.101 (talk) 20:34, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Name of external link

I think the heading for the last external link seems rather POV. The contents of the site seem to be relevant to the article, however. If there are no objections, I will change the heading from "A real Hindko website" to something more suitable to Wikipedia's style --Maurice45 (talk) 22:19, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Language itself

Should be more on the language itself... AnonMoos (talk) 13:32, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

What is your problem Mr Taivo. can you explain the grounds for reverting with out any reference. dont miss use your edit chair for fun and reverse only you can proof the edits wrong as suppourted by published material. REGARDZZZZZ Frenchdreamer (talk) 18:05, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

This material is just a rehash of other discredited material and isn't supported by reliable linguistic sources. --Taivo (talk) 20:26, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

What is your problem Mr Taivo. can you explain the grounds for reverting with out any reference. dont miss use your edit chair for fun and reverse only you can proof the edits wrong as suppourted by published material. REGARDZZZZZ Frenchdreamer (talk) 18:10, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Oh Taivo You Cant Hide From Genuine Quires

Can u answer these questions please Mr. Taivo + Kwami

(1) Who are the authors of reliable scientific linguistic works Foreign or locals ??

(2) How can any forigner language expert who cant speak these dialects can classify them as an separate language only on the basis of 200 to 300 word comparison ??

(3) What is the difference between a dialect and language?

(4) Can you learn these dialects then challenge my edits?

(5) Y AUSTRAILIAN, US , BRTISH, South African english are not classified as different languages with similer level of differences?

(6) Y wikipages on these dialects of english contain word comparisons if i m not allowed to post word comparison in these dialects of punjabi...bcoz u remove them by arguing ITS NOT A DICTIONARY?

(7). Why these are not reliable refrences with such a famous authors Book name: 3 HINDUSTANI LANGUAGES Page 99 Author: Doctor K S BEDI...Book name: PUNJABI LISANIYAT (LANGUISTIST) Page 142 Author: Shehbaz Malik...Book name: SHORT HISTORY OF PUNJABI LITERATURE Page 17 Author: Qureshi Ahmed Hussain..Book name: URDU IN PUNJAB Page 76 Author: Hafiz Mehmood Shirani

(8) You said that other native speakers contested my edited so can u kindly name bcoz i cant see any objecting edit by any native speaker? LanguageXpert (talk) 07:36, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

(9) Is wikipedia talk page arguments and logics presented not enough to revert wt u had been doing with out convincing me ?

(10) Are you not taking un fair advantage of your position as wikipedia administrators?

(11) Has any native speaker objected on my word list which clearly show how correct that was?

(12) If I publish a fake "scientific linguistic work" in your mother tongue and relate it to monkey language then will you post it on wikipedia as a scientific linguistic research ???

Read WP:BRD. If someone reverts your edits then you have to justify on the Talk Page and build a consensus before re-editing. You have failed miserably at even attempting to build a consensus. If you want us to consider your sources, then you have to provide full publication details so that they are available for our inspection and verification--not just a name and author's name. --Taivo (talk) 14:01, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Andki are not Hindki

Dear Sir I find you is discussion forum at Hindkowan page. In my opinion, District Indkai and Faryab province seems to be place of Migration of Indki (Hindki) to recent location. They migrated to recent places alongth with Baluchs and Pashtu speaker. and Pashtun call them Inkai as singular and Indki as plural perhaps with the reference of their previous location as later they lost their native language. Some how they got segregated by main tribes because of change in native language.The same happend with Niazi's and Baluch's of D.G.khan when they married local girls so there is possibility of change in native language but important is blood line. if it is derived from Hind Why Hindki term is not used for Punjabi's of lahore. Culturally these tribes are more close to Pashtun and Baluch. It is strange while that within punjab the indentity with Hindko is seldom found and commonly used word in history for a country is is Bharat instead of Hindostan. Most of Historian confused their origin with by using incorrectly the using the word Hindki . please oblige me with your opinion?Zarrigul (talk) 14:19, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Pashtun's recall them Andkai instead of Hindki. for common punjabi's Pashtun's use the term as Abo-wal, this difference make sense as these people migrated to this area along with Pashtuns and they call them Andkoi with the reference of there place of migration which is wrongly confused with Hind. I have uploaded two links ,travel guide of afghanistan and list of district in Faryab province which indicates the location of Andkoi/Andkhoy/Andkai District . Map , district information and travel information mention the place with three different speelings.

• [1] Andkoi, the real place of Migration from Afghanistan.
• [2], Travel & tour information of Afghanistan .

REGARDS

ZARRIGUL Zarrigul (talk) 15:00, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

I have edited out reference to Hindkowans in the introductory paragragh of the article. It is inaccurate to say that Hinko is spoken by Hindkowans because such an ethnic group does not exist. Hindkowan is a term that was used by British authorities due to that classification being created by their army officers doubling as 'scholars', and may, at best, only refer to people in Peshawar city, who are locally known as Kharays (city dwellers) and include communities of mainly Awan ethnicity and an admixture of various individual families from other Indian origin ethnicities e.g. Sethis, Kapoors etc. who speak Hindko/Awanwali. The majority of Hinko speakers reside in the former division of Hazara where major tribes are Pashtun - Hinko speakers can be of any ethnic group: Pashtun; Gujjar; Awans; Sayyids, Mayanas/Qureshis, Dhundh Abbasis etc. So the terms Hindkowan does not make any sense anthropologically, historically or sociologically. In Sindh province there are many ethnicities including Memons who are linguistically very diverse: Sindhi speakers; Memoni/Katchi speakers; Gujrati speakers and Urdu speakers. Would it be plausible to call them by umbrella term of Memons or by their linguistic affiliations? Similarly, can we call those numerous Punjabis, Pashtuns etc. who have adopted Urdu as their main language in their families as Urdu Speakers, a term designated for Mohajers? grups2.126.222.53 (talk) 16:45, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Please someone remove the subheading Hazara Province from the box in the article under 'spoken in' heading. Hazara Province demand is a political movement and does not exist as a real entity. If and until it becomes a reality it must be excluded from an article on the language called Hinko/Hindko. Incidently, the Hindko and Hinko are as dissimilar to each other as they both are to standard Punjabi. 2.126.222.53 (talk) 17:38, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Map image breaches policy & has been removed

There is currently a deletion discussion taking place at Commons regarding File:Map on Dialects Of Punjabi Language.jpg, which can be viewed here. Regardless of whether the map image is deleted at Commons, I think that it needs to be removed from all English Wikipedia articles because it breaches our synthesis policy. The image creator has provided a long list of sources in the deletion discussion and it is evident from those that none contain all of the information shown in the image, nor is it a simple task to work out which bits of information were gleaned from which source(s). We simply do not permit people to aggregate information in this way. It should also be noted that the chances are very high that the various sources did not even adopt the same methodology in compiling their data, which makes the analysis of the creator even more suspect.

I have removed the image because the Commons discussion may end up as something other than "delete" and yet the thing is still invalid on English Wikipedia. - Sitush (talk) 19:01, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Map was deleted on two reasons. 1... Commons deletion discussion but now Deletion request by Sitush has been rejected on Wikimedia Commons. 2... Sitush has a self perception that map is synthesis, which is actually not because it is based on latest research of 2007 in the Publication named 'The Indo-Aryan Languages' by George Cardona and Dhanesh Jain. So I am re inserting it. Unless Sitush prove it again as a synthesis and refer me the areas of map being synthesized also mentioning the different publications along with page numbers where from in his kind opinion I have synthesized the map.Maria0333 (talk) 08:22, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

In the deletion discussion on commons you explicitly listed 13 separate sources that were used to create the map. You can't turn around and now say it's all from one book. If multiple sources were all put in to make the map, and it was not built from a single source, it's WP:SYNTHESIS, and thus a violation of WP:OR. Until you get your story straight, it must remain out of the article. Qwyrxian (talk) 10:49, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Dont try to be a lawyer who plays with words.I clearly mentioned there that it is not a synthesis and my map is as per Cardona as the latest research on indo aryn languages. You have a self perception that map is synthesis, which is actually not because it is based on latest research of 2007 in the Publication named 'The Indo-Aryan Languages' by George Cardona and Dhanesh Jain. So I am re inserting it. Unless you prove it as a synthesis and refer me the areas of map being synthesized also mentioning the different publications along with page numbers where from in his kind opinion I have synthesized the map. develop WP consensus for deletion if you proved it synthesis. Rules are rules for every one whether a established editor or a non established editor. In fact established editor should first set the example for non established editors. Thanks Maria0333 (talk) 17:23, 22 March 2013 (UTC)