Talk:Yankee/Archive 1

Untitled

I've removed the opening sentence to this article 2 times due to gross errors that need to be discussed here, if it appears a third time is will be a 3rd revision for the author of that sentence, so I'm bringing it here. The sentence, to the best of my memory, said Yankees "were people whose ancestors arrived from Great Britain before 1700." This is wrong for the following reasons. This is only a partial list of reasons:

1. Nothing happened in 1700 making this a date of any significance, it is merely an arbitrary date, and clearly too early, as English settlers who arrived here long after this date were still called Yankees. Many American soldiers during the revolution were first generation Brits, yet they were Yankees.

2. Great Britain includes North Ireland, Wales, and Scotland, I think the term specifically refers to English setlers.

3. The term "Yankee" was origianlly used of the Dutch, who were the Jans and Jankes of the colonies. Why would anybody refer to an Englishman as Jan? Even more to the point, why would a DUTCHMAN refer to an Englishman as Jan? Use your heads, folks, please! People sometimes refer to others by the most common of their common names. Thus, Irishmen were Micks, Spanish were Diegos, English were John Bull, and of course, the Dutch were Jan and Janke. I don't understand why anybody would think a Dutchman would call an Englishman Janke. It would be like a German calling somebody Otto. Are you kidding? The original Yankees were Dutch and the term was used by British nationals, not British colonists. All early references of the term show that it was used by English sailors, who called us colonists Yankees because so many of our sailors had Dutch names. The Dutch as a people are a maritime people, and in America they rans the ports and built the ships, even after the colonies became British. It's so simple. English people sailing for the Crown had to find some little thing about the colonists that made us different from them, so they could use a term to poke fun at us, insult us, pick fights with us, or just rib us, because sailors were a rough bunch and liked to joke around, drunk on rum as they often were, and one obvious thing about us that made us different from them was the number of us with Dutch names, mostly in New York, which was the biggest port in the northeast, and was the port where Dutch nationals traded heavily with the English nationals, via the colonists, both of English and Dutch decent, sending sugar and rum from Dutch colonies in the Carribean, through the ports of the northern American colonies, mainly New York, which was favored by Dutch nationals because they were run by Dutch Americans, as opposed to the English ports in Virginia etc which had no Dutch, and the rum was shipped back to England for the limeys to get drunk on. So there you go, they called us Jan and Janke. And there were Dutch in New England too, so, we were lumped together, all northern colonists, as Yankees. Virginia colonists were never called Yankees, because they had no Dutch. Earth to Wiki editors, please use your heads now. Don't you get it yet? It's really simple. The New York Yankees are more than a baseball team, 200 years earlier they were Dutch colonists, and the first Yankees were New Yorkers. But the Dutch rejected the term because it was offensive, while New Englanders borrowed and embraced the term. I don't know what can be easier to understand than this. Even a cave man can do it! How can I make this more clear??? And please don't make me cite references or I'll hit you over the head with a bottle of rum.

Morgan Wright 04:04, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Still more likely, Jan & Kees, see below. Dutchdavey (talk) 09:21, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

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I'm surprised at the seriousness of this discussion. The following is in no way meant to be provocative - Just some opinions ... from someone not too serious about his heritage.

I've seen the the source of "Yankee" listed as "Janke" in the past but as a descendant of the Deutsche (German, not Dutch) Jankes, I was always told the original pronunciation was "Yăhnkěh" - short "a" and short "e" - not "Jane-Kee", "Jank-kee" or "Yankee" - so phonetically, I don't see the linkage. (Admittedly, after coming through the immigration process, spellings varied significantly, the Colonial "English" may have mispronounced the name, and today we pronounce it with a long -e ending; "Yăhnkee".

I would agree that the name "Janke" should translate to "son of John" or "little John" in English - the Johnsons of old Germany. Elsewhere on this page the statement is made that "Janke is a Dutch female surname" but in old German context Janken would be feminine. Janke does seem to be a not-uncommon given or first name in some areas of Europe and in Dutch-Colonial Africa.

The German Jankes certainly came here after their Dutch namesakes - as "Hessians" fighting for the English in both the Revolutionary War and War of 1812. (If you accept the premise that "Yankee" came from "Janke", could the Colonials likewise have used the term to mock the British-controlled mercenaries? Would not "Yankees" have been on British ships and in British forts?) Though on the losing side both times, some Hessians stayed, and others returned after leaving His Majesty's service to settle in New York, Pennsylvania ("Pennsylvania Deutsche") and other areas.

As far as the term "Yankee" being derogatory - - - it doesn't seem to be so when used with the word "Dollar" Ja? R. Janke (talk) 22:23, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

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For what it's worth, Great Britain does not include Northern Ireland. Great Britain is an island that contains England, Wales, and Scotland. The official name of the country that also contains Northern Ireland is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. And moreover, the UK didn't exist as a single country until the Act of Union in 1707. Ireland didn't join until 1803. --65.196.113.71 19:47, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Please edit!  I added the link since there wasn't one, but don't know anything about the subject.

--Ben Brumfield

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Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable has origins of 'yankee':

[1]

I think Brewer is out of copyright, otherwise it wouldn't be on Bertelby.com... not sure though...

-- AndyE

PS Seems like it's definitely in the public domain, not sure about the accuracy of the the derivation though. It says

-begin quote

A corruption of “English.” The word got into general use thus: In 1713 one Jonathan Hastings, a farmer at Cambridge, in New York, used the word as a puffing epithet, meaning genuine, American-made, what cannot be surpassed, etc.; as, a “Yankee horse,” “Yankee cider,” and so on. The students of the college, catching up the term, called Hastings “Yankee Jonathan.” It soon spread, and became the jocose pet name of the New Englander. Since then the term has been extended to any American of the Northern States. (Indian corruption of Anglais or English, thus: Yengees, Yenghis, Yanghis, Yankees.)

Yankee Doodle is Nankee Doodle (Oliver Cromwell), who went to Oxford “with a single feather fastened in a macaroni knot,” whence the rhyme—

Nankee Doodle came to town upon his little pony, Stuck a feather in his hat, and called it macaroni.”

The brigade under Lord Percy marched out of Boston playing this air “by way of contempt,” but were told they should dance to it soon in another spirit.

- end quote

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Associated with....?

other parts of the world, particularly Latin America, yankee or yanqui is meant as an insult and is politically associated with anti-imperialism and used in expressions such as "Yankee go home".

This is very ambiguous wording, I assume this is saying the "Yankee" is seen as an imperalist? Or that the Yankee is imposing anti-imperalist views? Nagelfar 05:46, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

To others outside America yankee is a demoting synonym to American imperialist or to someone who is very fond of traditional northern US customs.

Jan Kees, Yeah right! ;-)

Taken from article:

The etymology is uncertain; one suggestion is that it derives from Dutch Janke, diminutive of Jan (John), or Jan Kees, for "John Cheese", a nickname for English settlers bestowed by the Dutch in the early days of New York City. The phrase was probably popularized by the English in the song Yankee Doodle Dandee to describe New Yorkers, and perhaps, all (Northern) Americans in the colonies.

• In dutch, Janken = To Cry
• Jan Kees -> Johan Cornelis -> Joh(a)n Cornelius.

Cheese = Kaas

Dutch would call English settlers John Cheese? Well, dutch folks are often called cheeseheads (because of their smell I think :-| ), so that part would more likely be the other way around.

Hmm, is the above original research perhaps? Could anyone provide a cite?

Kim Bruning 21:08, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Use your head folks, The DUTCH were called Jan and Janke, not the other way around! A Dutchman calling somebody Jan or Janke is like a German calling sombody Otto or an Irishman calling somebody Mick. It's so obvious.

Morgan Wright 11:15, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

The dutch wikipedia puts it the other way round. Dutch folks are often called "Jan" or "Kees", so the english might have used "The Jan And Kees-es" - yankees for short. Hmmm, could be. Does sound rather more likely? Kim Bruning 21:12, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Its all OR, but I'd agree with the above. Jan and Kees are two VERY popular boy's first names here in Holland. Jan is pronounced Yan, obviously, Kees is pronounced Case, less obviously, but its the most sensible answer. Dutchdavey (talk) 09:19, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

The Jan part of the word is obvious. However Kees, besides being an abbreviation for Cornelius can also mean a baboon. In Afrikaans, a language of Dutch origin, it regulary refers to a baboon. Jan Kees means "John Baboon" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.18.94.150 (talk) 20:24, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Janke is a Dutch female surname. Jan & Kees are Dutch male surnames or combined as one surname Jan-Kees is very common in the Netherlands. Until the 1960s female rights were not equal to male rights. So meaning a Dutch settler in the 17th century in then called Nieuw Amsterdam, where the man was head of the family, is Jan-Kees (Yankees) and not Janke's (several women called Janke). Don't forget the Dutch were the first settlers in Nieuw Amsterdam (NY) in the 17th century divided into communities like Breuckelen, Haarlem, The Broncks' (Swedish captain om a Dutch ship called Jonas Bronck).

I'm not buying it

There's no source on this "chronic masturbation" paragraph at the start. I'm removing it until it gets sourced. Rob 12:48, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

By all means, it looks like bullshit. Sylvain1972 17:25, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Nice!!! >P —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.218.23.158 (talk) 12:35, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

yankee migration to the west coast

What? Huhh? Someone Yankeeing my chain? This sounds like total BS.

Yankee currency in Ecuador

I removed the bit about Ecuadorians calling dollars "yankees" because in the 3 1/2 years that I lived and worked there, I never heard this term used; nor has my Ecuadorian housemate. lwilson4 19:25 03 June 2006

Contradiction

The article says the first use of the word to refer to Americans generally came in the 1880s, but there's a cartoon right beside that claim from the 1770s. 24.29.134.41 19:41, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Diane Sawyer version

In October 2006, during visit to North Korea, she claimed "yankee" is Chinese for "ocean demon"

Twang

It's true that it's a sourced statement, but sourced only to David Hackett Fischer. Fischer is a great cultural historian, but he's not a linguist at all, and he's only describing what non-linguists believe about the "Yankee twang". Two main problems: (1) "Yankee twang" is literally meaningless. "Twang" is a word that gets tossed around a lot for describing regional accents by people who don't know anything about accents, but it doesn't have any information about any of the actual qualities of accents. (2) Because of this, Fischer has no evidence that the "old Yankee twang" he describes is actually "old"—that is to say, that the rural New England dialect of today is unchanged sice what earlier writers have described as a "twang". I'd accept it with a more objective formulation like "The characteristic dialects of New England maintain their strongest form in the hill towns of interior New England, and have been described impressionistically as a 'Yankee twang'." AJD 14:10, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

we at Wiki rely on the best scholarship and not our own notions. Fischer is a leading expert on the Yankees with many books--one winning a Pulitzer Prize. Is there some alternative scholarship to cite????

"Yankee"

This article seems to give the impression that the word "Yankee" is used often in the US, it is extremly rare to refer to another American (from any region) as a "Yankee" and absolutly never a "Yank".

Have you spent much time in the South? It's still fairly commonly used there to describe Northerners. Funnyhat 06:07, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Agree. In the South "Yankee" means a non-Southerner and is used constantly.141.166.112.252 21:48, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

>>This is absolutely true. In the South, especially in the 11 Old Confederate States, the term is used frequently to refer to those (in both a singular and plural sense) not from the region. Whether applied as a neutral label or a derogatory term depends on the larger context, or the mannerism(s) of the individual(s), being discussed, but the word "yankee" is heard often where I come from. TexasReb 16:39, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Have you ever been to Vermont? They have a magazine called Yankee Magazine, for some reason the Vermonters are proud to call themselves Yankees, and they call everybody else Flatlanders. Except New Hampshire people, they tolerate NH people, but hate everybody else, especially New Yorkers

Morgan Wright 18:51, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I find it odd that Yankee has been associated with those New Englanders. I grew up with the New Yorks Yankess and from watching movies about the south, I assumed that Yankees referred to northerners, not the closed minded, separatists up in New England.--71.235.81.39 13:35, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Yankee Magazine is not a Vermont specific magazine. It's New England specific. And it's published in Dublin, New Hampshire. Has been for at least the last twenty years. Don't want folks to think it's just about Vermont. --annonymous 6/21/07

I live in Vermont. It is not common to call ourselves Yankees, unless mockingly (I don't want to say I've NEVER heard it, but it is very rare if it happens). I personally do take a little offense from the term. Also, Red Sox fans outnumber Yankees fans, and that is a nontrivial issue. Finally, Vermonters dislike NH invaders, too. They drive like lunatics, and occasionally vote Republican. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.165.168.165 (talk) 03:09, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

seppo

seppo is widely used in Australia as well as yank, I am having difficulty trying to incorporate into the seppo paragraph if someone could help me with it would be great I've also found a source here http://www.australiatravelsearch.com.au/trc/slang.html cheers Bnsbeaver 12:33, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I live in Australia and that term is never used anywhere I have been. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.220.71.21 (talk) 06:34, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Seppo is short for septic tank which is rhyming slang for Yank. CMarshall (talk) 06:57, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Strine

"Strine" means "Australian" as in "the Australian language", not as in "a person from Australia" (see [2]). The word is misused in the article; deleting. — Paul G 16:52, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Modern Yankee Politicians

Neither John Kerry nor Hillary Clinton seem to defintely qualify as Yankees. Clinton does not appear to have colonial northeastern ancestry. Although Kerry is a Roman Catholic Democrat, it seems like a better case could be made for him, as a member of the Protestant Forbes Family on his mother's side. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Clinton isn't Yankee, according to her autobiography. John FORBES Kerry is scion of the Forbes family, one of the oldest and most important Yankee families.Rjensen 23:46, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

No one who's largely of New-England settler descent (the meaning of "Yankee", here in southern New England) would class either senator from Massachusetts as a Yankee. John Kerry's father was an immigrant; his mother is only partly descended from settler stock. For accuracy's sake, citation of Mr. Kerry as "Yankee" should be excised. 76.232.63.181 (talk) 03:09, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Yankee: usage to designate an ethnic group

On "Yankees" as an ethnic group, see Oscar Handlin, "Yankees," in Harvard Encyclopedia of American Ethnic Groups, ed. by Stephan Thernstrom, (1980) pp 1028-1030. The term is commonly used for a person of New England descent, including those living elsewhere who continue the heritage. Thus books like Yankees in Paradise: The New England Impact on Hawaii by Bradford Smith (1956); Black Yankees: The Development of an Afro-American Subculture in Eighteenth-Century New England (1988)by William Dillon Piersen; A Yankee in Creole Country by Elizabeth Gentry Sayad (2004); Yankees and Yorkers (1940) by Dixon R. Fox. about New York State; They Chose Minnesota: a survey of the state's ethnic groups by J. Holmquist )1988) has a chapter on the Yankees. David M. Ellis looked at Yankee-Dutch tensions in the Albany NY in his article on "Yankee-Dutch Confrontation" (1972)' Joseph Schafer in 1931 wrote of "Yankee-Teuton Rivalry in Wisconsin" in the 1870s. Rjensen 08:29, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the article makes note of that.Sylvain1972 13:49, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

In Colombia

In Colombia Yankee is called sometimes to a person that is big.. muscles... --Azuero 07:05, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Yank "...mistakenly applied to Canadians"

I've removed the following phrase, referring to the term "Yank," from the lead:

...and is sometimes mistakenly applied to Canadians. Canadians travelling abroad took to wearing maple leaf pins to avoid misidentification.

The references given for this statement are: [3], [4], and [5] and [6]

My problem with this statement, particularly in the lead, is that it refers to anti-Americanism generally, rather than the term "Yank." Not that that Yank isn't used pejoratively, it is, as the article later makes clear. However, the references do not support the idea that the term is mistakenly applied to Canadians.

The first reference is from a reliable source and would be valid if it supported the contention that the term is mistakenly applied to Canadians, but it doesn't do that. As to the others, blogs do not constitute valid references.

This article, ranked as a "start class" article, evidently needs some work. I have some concerns with the lead generally, but lets get this cleared up first. Discussion? Sunray 15:06, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Blogs certainly count when we are documenting actual usage by irdinary people. Rjensen 18:43, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps they could be referred to in notes to show usage, but surely not used as references. We need a citation for this. Sunray 18:49, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

why do we need an academic citation whgen we have blog evidence from ordinary people--this is a matter of everyday usage. Rjensen 18:58, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Academic citation? Why would we need an academic citation? Surely we would just need a statement from a reliable source that says that Canadians frequently get called "Yank." The problem with blogs is that they are anecdotal: Someone says: "I got called 'Yank,'" or "...someone I know was called 'Yank.'" The problem is with generalizing from this. We can't tell how common it is. Sure Canadians get mistaken for Americans. What does that have to do with the term "Yank?" Sunray 19:32, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

There is nothing wrong with the Canadian point so I reinserted it. It adds to the article. Morgan Wright 02:11, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't believe that it is true. I've never seen any evidence of it. So I have asked for a citation that verifies that it is a common occurrence for Canadians to be called "Yank." Check out the policy on attribution:

"...Although everything in Wikipedia must be attributable, in practice not all material is attributed. Editors should provide attribution for quotations and for any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged, or it may be removed. The burden of evidence lies with the editor wishing to add or retain the material."

If you read further in the policy under the heading "Using questionable or self-published sources," you will note that blogs are not evidence. I've asked for a citation from a reliable source that says that Canadians are sometimes mistakenly called "Yank." Please oblige. Sunray 07:05, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

we have signed statements by Canadians that they are called Yanks. That's what evidence of usage looks like. Rjensen 13:58, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not saying that no Canadian was ever called "Yank," I'm just saying that one, or five, or fifteen cases of this do not make it a social phenomenon worthy of mention in an encyclopedia. On the other hand, if it is a common occurence, it is likely that someone has written about it in some medium that is subject to peer review or publication standards. Just find that cite and we're done. Sunray 15:44, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm Canadian and while Canadians are sometime identified as Amercans, they are almost never called "Yanks." It would be taken as even more of an offence than if we were called Americans. If some Englishman called a Canadian a Yank, he would most likely be getting a free trip to the hospital! EZC195 January 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ezc 195 (talk • contribs) 05:01, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Yankee not people of English ancestry

People need to study the origin of the word to understand why we cannot point to 17th century British colonists as the original Yankees. Too much of the writing in this article is about early British colonists, 1610 and on, yet those people were never called Yankees at the time, they were universlly called English. The Yankees of the 17th century were the Dutch, and there is NO EVIDENCE that the term was ever used for the British until the late 18th century, so please, people, let's lay off all the writings of the early colonization of New England by the English, from Plymouth Plantation on, because this article is about Yankees. New England had no Yankees until they started calling themselves Yankees during the revolution when the British army referred to all the colonists by the previously insulting term they had used for the Dutch. If you went back the the 17th century and asked people in Boston about the Yankees, they would point to the guys with the little pointy hats named Jan Van Ten Broek and Pieter VanRensselaer, not the Smiths and the Jonses. Get your history straight. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Morgan Wright (talk • contribs) 02:21, 6 April 2007 (UTC). Morgan Wright 02:23, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

More examples. "It is the hat badge of the Canadian Armoured Carrier Regiment from WW2. They complained that in England they were constantly mistaken for Aussies......until the spoke and then they were mistaken for Yanks." at [7]; or "Canadians take it as an insult though. They're often called 'Yanks' too." at [8]. Australians too: "It's a real worry that Aussies in Europe are now being tagged "New Yanks"." at [9] Rjensen 14:25, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Morgan, you are confusing the linguistic history of the word with its uses. It may be that the pilgrims in Plymouth were not properly refered to as Yankees by their contemporaries, but today, people in Boston refer to those descended from the Pilgrims as Yankees. Definitions of words are descriptive not proscriptive. With the term Yankee, you are going to find tons of uses that don't match the original use of the word. Deliciousgrapefruit (talk) 16:10, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

The idea that New Englanders would ever self-apply a term which was intended for another group, especially the Dutch, is completely absurd. You obviously haven't known any. The more likely derivation, never mentioned in this article, that "Janneke" was a Dutch derogatory term to deride New Englanders, is a much better fit. Yankees love turning insults on their heads. It's really the only explanation that makes any sense. 63.155.157.177 (talk) 18:18, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

A Georgia Rebel in Queen Elizabeth's Court

Perhaps something should be said of the many scuffles that have probably resulted from some unfortunate European or Canadian refering to tourists from below the Mason-Dixon line as "Yanks." Unlike Canadians, bearing the Battle Flag don't seem to do us alot of good in clearing up the misconception. 74.36.192.45 11:39, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Please people I beseech you!! Stop with the early British history of New England this is an article about Yankees!!

Look folks. I've said it twice and this is the third time. Yankees were originally (in the 1600's) the Dutch Colonists, then they were Dutch and English colonists in the north (1700 to 1776) and then the term was embraced by all New England Americans, whether of English, Polish, Transylvanian, or Khazakistan descent, and rejected by the Dutch as offensive. The term NEVER meant early English colonists!! Yet people are writing about how the Yankee influence has extended as far west as Honolulu? What is this? Do you mean English? There were English colonists in Virginia, New York, Maryland, Pennsylvania, all the other 13 colonies!! Not just New England? What cultural influence to Yankee English settlers have that other English settlers don't have, and by now how are they different from Americans of all European ancestry? This whole big story of early English colonists? Those people were English, not Yankees! The term Yankee was not even used for the people of New England until the revolution! Before then, is was a nickname for the Dutch! If there isn't serious rewriting of this article, then I will do it. All this talk about early Yankee settlers sounds like it was written by somebody from Woosta or Lesta or Glosta or Lemsta tooting his horn about how great New England is, sort of a booster for a Yankee pep rally. Ra ra sis boom ba. Morgan Wright 21:56, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I suggest you add references to support your rantings.--65.196.113.71 19:52, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

References to Janke are in the article, the OED, and any modern etymology book. Learn to read.151.205.173.253 17:27, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

You are confusing etymology with the meaning of the word. It may be that the english settlers weren't called yankees by their contemporaries, but modern new englanders refer to people who can trace their descent to the english settlers as yankees. Defs are descriptive, not proscriptive here. Deliciousgrapefruit (talk) 17:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Yankee originates with the song, song an insult

If ever an article demonstrated the absurdity and self-censorship of using "respectable" sources, this is it. The term originated as an insult. Everyone knows what Yankee originally meant. It became embraced and developed from insult to term of pride and its vulgar history was disappeared. Seriously, Jan Kees? Why would the british troups use a dutch epitet for an english name? Families did not encourage their daughters to go to the new world unmarried, and the men seriously outnumbered the women. If only they had wiki then we would know better now 207.235.124.242 02:32, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

"Yankee" Within the United States

I strongly dispute that Americans only consider people to be Yankees if they're from above the Mason-Dixon Line. Maryland and Delaware, both below that line, are commonly acknowledged as Northern states. I live in Virginia, and even there Maryland is very definitely thought of as a Yankee state.

Similarly, my Maryland-born relatives living in South Carolina are constantly stopped on the streets and asked about their (very strong) Maryland accent, these encounters invarably including the phrase "You Yankee!" at some point.

Also, within Virginia itself, people from Northern Virginia are sometimes referred to as Yankees by people from Southern Virginia.

To say that most Southerners would look at a state like Maryland or Delaware and view that as part of their own region is completely untrue.

My relatives (Baton Rouge, Louisiana) consider anyone living north of Interstate 10 to be Northerners/Yankees. Mylorin 20:14, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Etymology

There is a much more convincing etymology than the one there, namely that it probably comes from the way the French and Native American tribes of the region pronounced "English"; like the way the English scout refers to himself or the Huron call the English/American colonials "the Yengeese" (c/f the way "Anglais" was pronounced in the 18th century) in the famous periodic novel by James Fenimore Cooper, Last of the Mohicans: A Narrative of 1757, published in 1896 and later made into a Hollywood motion picture directed by Michael Mann. This as far as I (original poster) am told is documented, and appears to have taken a life of its own so that the island English referred to the English creoles by this term. There are definitely references to this theory somewhere ... though I'll leave that to people here who edit this.

Support this etymology

I simply support this notion.. it does make much more sense that the "Jan Kees" stuff.. Although this ethymological root is widely promoted even in the serious dictionaries. I stumbled over it in a new adaption of the very movie "The last Mohican" and it DOES make sense.. I'd like to encourage any Ethymologist to have a closer look — Preceding unsigned comment added by Martin Hallerbach (talk • contribs) 22:04, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Yankee Doodle Dandy

Oh my! Never have I seen a discussion page soo...um...spirited in discussion? Yes, that's a nice way of putting it. With all the "facts" for this page coming and going and being thrown out and contradicting each other and oh my, no one even mentions that the term yankee originated with the song Yankee Doodle Dandy, and that song can be verifiably traced definitively to Fort Crailo in the city of Rensselaer, New York across the Hudson River from Albany, NY. It was a song written as a joke about the Conneticut militiamen who came up to serve under the British in Fort Crailo during the French and Indian Wars (back when the colonies were all loyal British folk), the local Dutch decendents thought they were urban and sophisticated (Albany was one of the 5 largest cities in the colonies at that time) and these silly Conneticut farmers would "stick a feather" in their hats, and "call it macaroni" macaroni being a term common back then that refered to stylish nice clothes, trendy clothes. Look up yankee doodle dandy or fort crailo on google or ask.com or anywhere and verify this if you dont believe me. So, PLEASE, feel free to respond, and more than that, feel free to pare this entire article down to real facts that can be verified. Can the term yankee be traced back farther than yankee doodle dandy and Fort Crailo? Perhaps...but this is an encyclopedia, not a history conference of professor's debating scholarship and entymology and history and linguistics, etc, etc. Camelbinky 19:13, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Rare

I believe this article fails to show just how incredibly rare the word "Yankee" and especially "Yank" are in the United States(Aside from the sports team). Reading it makes it seem like the term is as common as it is in the United Kingdom or Australia. This is certainly not so. Two decades living in several states, all around the nation and I have never heard it applied in a serious manner to anybody. Most Americans, upon learning that some nations call them "Yanks" find it hilarious and archaic. Travis T. Cleveland (talk) 14:41, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, quite right. I don't think that the article means to imply that usage of "Yankee" or "Yank" is frequent in the U.S. The article uses the term "popular meaning." I think that this is meant to imply that it is a colloquial term rather than refer to its frequency of use. Sunray (talk) 15:47, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if you've ever lived in any southen states, but I live in North Carolina and I do hear it used somewhat frequently, though usually in more rural areas and by older people. Rreagan007 (talk) 19:24, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Yankee = Pirate

I am not a wikipedian, but if any editors are interested here is a lead on a compelling addition to etymology: http://thepiratesdilemma.com/the-tao-of-pirates/etymology-of-a-yankee This entry mentions it being applied to "freebooters" as well http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Yankee. I would guess there is considerable source material off line for these suggestions.24.21.35.23 (talk) 03:17, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, English is a language of pirates! And the word "Yankee" is from Chinese "洋鬼"(Western devil)!--113.34.158.230 (talk) 06:26, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

And I thought Korean yanggwae, but nothing's gonna happen without some Wikipedia:Reliable sources. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 04:53, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Yank/ee as a derogatory term in the Commonwealth?

Well im from britain and i've never heard the term yank (we never use yankee) used as a derogatory term in itself. It's generally just used to refer to Americans in general. Though it is often used in playful sometimes insulting jokes about Americans (for the sake of argument i wont go into specifics). It is the same way with immigrants from the SANZAR nations and Canada (we get a lot of teachers from them). [[[Special:Contributions/86.153.24.6|86.153.24.6]] (talk)]

I'm in South Wales, and the term "Yank" is rarely heard - it's a generational thing, used by those who lived through WWII, but virtually unknown to today's youngsters. 91.108.144.69 (talk) 19:07, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

The Commonwealth of Massachusetts, it is a derogatory term for people who trace their descent from the early settlers. Usually used by middle class and lower class people to refer to wealthy established families in communities like Marbelehead. Deliciousgrapefruit (talk) 17:59, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't think that it is necessarily a derogatory term, although perhaps when used to refer to that specific subset of the population. A "New England Yankee" might also simply be a frugal (even cheap), reserved (even unfriendly), and aloof "salt of the earth" type person. Not all of the original settlers are wealthy today; some still live in rural communities as farmers, etc. --TimothyDexter (talk) 21:02, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Origins

Came across this: Report on “The Star-Spangled Banner,” “Hail Columbia,” “America,” “Yankee Doodle” (1909) by Oscar G. Sonneck (1873–1928), appears to be originally published in 1909, and debunks every single theory listed in this article for the origin of "Yankee." Perhaps someone willing to dig into some other older texts could rewrite this section of the article much more meaningfully, perhaps pointing that even shortly after widespread use of the term Yankee to refer to Americans, no one could figure out where the term came from? That alone is more informative than listing all the various theories of its origin. 69.135.185.154 (talk) 01:57, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The origins are often debated. There is another article on the origins dating to 1938 from The American Dialect Society. Anyone who has access to JSTOR can read the full article. Otherwise, the first page of the article is still rather informative.[10] --Xaliqen (talk) 18:36, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Aphorism variant

I had always heard that to a Vermonter a Yankee was someone who ate apple pie with cheese. Khajidha (talk) 18:33, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Yankee usage in lead

this page itself shows the various meanings of the terms which should be included in the lead. If not as itself then with the caveat the word means different things in different part of the country and the world.Lihaas (talk) 12:26, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

I think I agree, but I'm not sure. Your statement in itself is not justification for making the opening so US-centric. Can you please have another go at explaining what you're trying to achieve? HiLo48 (talk) 18:24, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

the example given of the word 'yankee' in reference to joshua slocum is factually incorrect

currently the wikipedia article on the word 'yankee' includes this definition, under : In other parts of the world

"Joshua Slocum, in his 1899 book Sailing Alone Around the World refers to Nova Scotians as being the only or true Yankees. It thus may be implied, as he himself was a Nova Scotian, that he had pride in his ancestry. "Yankee" in this instance, instead of connoting a form of derision, is therefore a form of praise; perhaps relevant to the hardy seagoing people of the East Coast at that time."

this is actually in fact opposite of what joshua slocum wrote in his book.

it is available at google books, and at archive.org

on top of page two of mr. slocum's 'Sailing Alone Around the World' (he was the first person to sail round the world alone)

 you will find  the following: 

" though I am a citizen of the United States a naturalized Yankee, if it may be said that Nova Scotians are not Yankees in the truest sense of the word."

in other words, whoever put this reference into the article has never really read the book they are talking about.

or somehow mistook the original sources' : 'not Yankees' for: ' Nova Scotians as being the only or true Yankees'

this is unacceptable. a few generations back, every schoolchild had to read this book. it was standard reading in u.s. schools for ages.

here you may read the original book yourselves: http://www.archive.org/stream/sailingalonearou00slocuoft/sailingalonearou00slocuoft_djvu.txt

look at the beginning of page 2. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.227.158.153 (talk) 06:29, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Dirty Yankee?

I've been looking for the term of a dirty yankee. I really don't know but I only heard it from President Obama. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nderadio96 (talk • contribs) 14:12, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Seppo Removed

I have removed Seppo as in the 30 years I have lived in Australia (multiple locations) I have never heard that term used. If it was used it is possibly historical but as the source was a urban dictionary that has lots of factual errors I would remove it until it is confirmed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.220.71.21 (talk) 06:32, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm. Pure WP:OR there. The content was sourced. Despite your doubts about that source, it is a source, unlike your OR. I'm Australian and I certainly have heard it, on many occasions and in many places. I don't want to edit war over this, but it IS a real word, and it IS derived from Yankee. Do you really think the person who put it there made it up? I will try to find another source to keep you happy, and hope that some other editors post their thoughts on this here too. HiLo48 (talk) 07:17, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

OK, here's some more... My Macquarie Dictionary (Australia's finest) doesn't list seppo, but it does list septic, with the meaning "A Yank - rhyming slang". I would not always be happy about Yahoo Answers as a source, but it does tell us....

Seppo is Australian rhyming slang. It is short for Septic Tank - which rhymes with Yank, meaning an American. They're called that because, as they say, Yanks are full of S**t. That is, they talk big but their actions don't always follow what they say. In the hands of kids it probably was just another insult in their arsenal. It isn't used much these days. I believe it was mostly used during World War II when the Americans visited Australian ports in their quest against the Japanese in the South Pacific. Australian English is full of words with double meanings. It is littered with words that in other countries would be extremely insulting. But in Australia the tone of voice used can make them mean completely the opposite.

AND...It's rhyming slang - septic tank rhymes with Yank, so instead of calling an American a Yank, septic tank is used instead, and seppo is a short form of that. The term originated in Australia during the 2nd World War when there were lots of American servicemen here who seemed to be loaded up with chocolate, stockings, and other goodies for the local girls, and this upset the Australian men.

These may not be perfect sources, but they certainly indicate that a number of people ARE familiar with the term. HiLo48 (talk) 07:33, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

"Yankeeland"

In the other parts of the world portion of the uses section it refers to Finns using Jenkkilä for the United States. A similar usage, Yanquilandia, is not uncommon in Latin America. Who is like God? (talk) 03:31, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

confusion engendered by Washington Irving

I was just reading some stuff by Washington Irving and wondered why he would have Dutch Americans referring to, or thinking of, English New Englanders as "Yankees". But of course Irving was a wise guy, who knew what he -- an English-descended American writing in England of a time past -- was doing. Yet if anyone were to take his writings seriously, they might be genuinely confused, when it's obvious it would've been those of English descent referring to the Dutch as Yankees. So I'm strongly inclined to go along with what's been written above, i.e. that British nationals generalized a slur (or at least somewhat demeaning pet name) on the Dutch Americans by applying them to all Americans in and around New Holland and New England.67.83.50.182 (talk) 21:26, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Note

In the Dutch origins section, I noticed this: (NOTE: the Dutch name "Janneke" is the female version of "Jan", not the diminutive of "Jan", which in fact is "Jantje" meaning little John!)

If this is true, the paragraph should be corrected. If it is false, the note should be removed. Either way, the note should not be there in parentheses with the word NOTE attached to it. 151.203.162.86 (talk) 00:45, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Source of Jan Kees

The name Jan is the Dutch version of John. Kees is the common Dutch nickname for Cornelius. Kees is also an archaic word for a baboon in Afrikaans, a language derived from Dutch. Jan Kees is thus a derogatory term meaning "John Baboon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brinkal1000 (talk • contribs) 09:10, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

LOL63.155.157.177 (talk) 20:24, 27 March 2013 (UTC)