Talk:Cagot

What the hell is the "ith century"?

It is the century between the hth century and the jth century. 216.69.219.3 (talk) 23:28, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Story about "The only living Cagot" in today's Independent

This may be a useful source for those editing this article: [1] 86.132.142.207 (talk) 15:25, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Page move

I suggest that the page is moved to Cagot as that name is used by both the Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition and the Independent article --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 18:54, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

.I added a template about the moving based on this. Cagot already excist that page redirects here, so maybe the things here should be copied there and this Agote should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Petrobolos (talk • contribs) 07:50, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --RegentsPark (sticks and stones) 18:18, 15 July 2009 (UTC) Agote → Cagot — Agote is the Basque term; Cagot is the Occitan term; Cacon is the Breton term. It is essentially arbitrary as to which version we pick in English; neither one is any more "right" than the other... but I definitely get the impression that Cagot is the most common term used in English (mildly confirmed by Google Scholar). It seems like the Cagots of Gascony and Bearn are the most extensively chronicled, and the prejudice took a very long time to die out there, so I think there's a weak preference for having the article at that title. SnowFire (talk) 16:01, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

• Sure is quiet here... I'll just note for the closer that users supported a move long ago on the talk page (not sure why it never happened), and presumably haven't changed their minds when it comes to consensus. SnowFire (talk) 15:49, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

In fiction

Do we still have 'in fiction' sections? Who knows.

Nick Harkaway's book 'Angelmaker' features a lightly fictionalised version of the cagot called the 'hakote'. The cagot's putative origin as a fallen guild of carpenters is sexed up into being inheritors of a natural gift for understanding the workings of machines. Perhaps Mr Harkaway thought that by changing the name, he could obscure the origin; he should already have learned that that does not work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.193.127.91 (talk) 19:25, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

More likely he altered the name because Angelmaker is a work of fantasy rather than realistic fiction, hence not intended to depict the real world. The fact that Harkaway's created word "hakote" is extremely close to "agote" (one of the other real-world names for the cagot) indicates that instead of attempting to obscure the origin he intended to make the connection quite obvious to any reader already familiar with the term "agote." 173.155.81.127 (talk) 18:36, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Ethnicity question

At the moment, we have the following line:

• The Cagots were not an ethnic group, nor a religious group. They spoke the same language as the people in an area and generally kept the same religion as well. Their only distinguishing feature was their descent from families identified as Cagots.

The linguistic factor tells me that the Cagots had assimilated but their continuity of ostracisation with every generation (largely preventing interbreeding) meant that contemporary members had somewhat pure roots. I know that ethnicity is and always was the nation by which an individual has identified and I also know that for some villages in Bulgaria, the demographic structure of Bulgarians/Roma is 60-40 though one look at the population sees everyone with dark skin. To that end, would it not be better to say something along the following lines:

• Whilst this population did not identify as Cagots ethnically (and made efforts to become assimilated), **possible WP:OR** their prevention from mixing with local populations meant that their identity was marked and persons could not easily disguise their background.

Even this is on the assumption that original Cagots were an ethnic group. If not, does anyone know how one group of people came to be labelled Cagots? Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 23:10, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Hoax

Total hoax. Erase.