Talk:Wir müssen durch viel Trübsal, BWV 146: Difference between revisions
Gerda Arendt (talk | contribs) project |
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similar to ref.1 from the article page . If that is the "suggested" text , |
similar to ref.1 from the article page . If that is the "suggested" text , |
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shouldn't the '''History and words''' section say so explicitly ? |
shouldn't the '''History and words''' section say so explicitly ? |
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[[Special:Contributions/70.106.152.64|70.106.152.64]] ([[User talk:70.106.152.64|talk]]) 04:18, 21 November 2013 (UTC) mgt220 a yahoo,com |
[[Special:Contributions/70.106.152.64|70.106.152.64]] ([[User talk:70.106.152.64|talk]]) 04:18, 21 November 2013 (UTC) mgt220 a yahoo,com |
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:Thank you, I tried, --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 11:15, 21 November 2013 (UTC) |
:Thank you, I tried, --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 11:15, 21 November 2013 (UTC) |
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Focusing on the question of where ''Denn wer selig dahin fähret'' |
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came from ... [http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Texts/BWV146-Spa7.htm this page ] |
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lists a reference |
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[http://www.uvm.edu/~classics/faculty/bach/BWV146.html English-1] |
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by Z. Philip Ambrose , stating in part (re-arranged by me , in 2 parts :) |
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8. Chorale (S, A, T, B)," 1658 (Fischer-Tümpel, I, #309). |
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[Ah, I have already witnessed |
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This enormous majesty; |
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Now shall I have fine adornment |
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In the shining robe of heav'n; |
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With the golden crown of honor |
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I shall stand before God's throne then, |
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And shall such great gladness see, |
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Which can never have an end.](4) |
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4. The text supplied by Neumann T. using |
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Johann Rosenmüller or Johann Georg Albinus, |
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verse 7 of "Alle Menschen müssen sterben," 1652 (Fischer-Tümpel, IV, #311); |
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I think this is the chorus ''Ach, ich habe schon erblicket'' |
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that none of the complete Cantata collections recorded - |
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[http://www.emmanuelmusic.org/notes_translations/translations_cantata/t_bwv146.htm check here ] - (and part 2 :) |
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[For who blessed passeth thither, |
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Where no death will knock again, |
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He shall all those things obtain then |
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That he ever could desire. |
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He'll be in that stronghold sure |
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Where God his own dwelling hath, |
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He'll have in that mansion lodging |
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Which no misery afflicteth.](5) |
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5. The text supplied by Wustmann. |
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by Gregorius Richter, verse 9 of Lasset ab von euren Tränen |
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which seems quite similar to the google translation of |
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''Denn wer selig dahin fähret'' ... and subsequent text , |
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and also is close to the English text on p.313 of the |
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book by Alfred Durr I cited yesterday |
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That evidence seems to indicate that ''Denn wer selig dahin fähret'' |
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did come from the Hymn ''Lasset ab von euren Tränen'' , and was |
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suggested by Wustmann . Is this evidence sufficient for an explicit |
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statement to be included in the '''History and words''' section ? |
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Note that there is a Rudolph Wustmann listed as co-author with Werner Neumann |
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as ref.4 on the page for [[Wer da gläubet und getauft wird, BWV 37 | bwv037]] . |
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(could that book have been part of the [[Neue Bach-Ausgabe | new Bach Edition ]] |
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which Werner Neumann was an editor of ?) |
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Whether Alfred Durr merely mentioned it as one of two good choices , |
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or "suggested it" himself , I leave to the editors . |
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[[Special:Contributions/70.106.152.64|70.106.152.64]] ([[User talk:70.106.152.64|talk]]) 20:39, 21 November 2013 (UTC) mgt220 a yahoo,com |
Revision as of 20:39, 21 November 2013
![]() | Classical music: Compositions | ||||||
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![]() | A fact from Wir müssen durch viel Trübsal, BWV 146 appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 15 May 2011 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
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closing chorale text question
The History and words section explains that this
Bach cantata has surviving music but not text for the final chorale .
In the scoring and structure section , the final chorale text is listed as an option
- 8. Chorale: Denn wer selig dahin fähret or Ach, ich habe schon erblicket
However , looking at the 6 example recordings at the bottom of the article page , I found
Denn wer selig dahin fähret seems to be listed for
Harnoncourt (Teldec)
Leusink
Rilling and
Gardiner
while
Freu dich sehr, o meine Seele seems to be performed by
Koopman and
Suzuki
I didn't find any version of bwv146 using the chorale text
Ach, ich habe schon erblicket ,
although it appears as the text for the closing chorale of
bwv162
wikipedia editors may want to check and correct (if needed)
the text line for the closing chorale of bwv146 , perhaps by this
- 8. Chorale: Denn wer selig dahin fähret or Freu dich sehr, o meine Seele
if they agree with my suspicions . I do not have the "suggested" hymn text from Lasset ab von euren Tränen unless by chance it is Denn wer selig dahin fähret as shown in this book by Alfred Durr , similar to ref.1 from the article page . If that is the "suggested" text , shouldn't the History and words section say so explicitly ?
70.106.152.64 (talk) 04:18, 21 November 2013 (UTC) mgt220 a yahoo,com
- Thank you, I tried, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:15, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
Focusing on the question of where Denn wer selig dahin fähret
came from ... this page
lists a reference
English-1
by Z. Philip Ambrose , stating in part (re-arranged by me , in 2 parts :)
8. Chorale (S, A, T, B)," 1658 (Fischer-Tümpel, I, #309). [Ah, I have already witnessed This enormous majesty; Now shall I have fine adornment In the shining robe of heav'n; With the golden crown of honor I shall stand before God's throne then, And shall such great gladness see, Which can never have an end.](4) 4. The text supplied by Neumann T. using Johann Rosenmüller or Johann Georg Albinus, verse 7 of "Alle Menschen müssen sterben," 1652 (Fischer-Tümpel, IV, #311);
I think this is the chorus Ach, ich habe schon erblicket that none of the complete Cantata collections recorded - check here - (and part 2 :)
[For who blessed passeth thither, Where no death will knock again, He shall all those things obtain then That he ever could desire. He'll be in that stronghold sure Where God his own dwelling hath, He'll have in that mansion lodging Which no misery afflicteth.](5) 5. The text supplied by Wustmann. by Gregorius Richter, verse 9 of Lasset ab von euren Tränen
which seems quite similar to the google translation of Denn wer selig dahin fähret ... and subsequent text , and also is close to the English text on p.313 of the book by Alfred Durr I cited yesterday
That evidence seems to indicate that Denn wer selig dahin fähret did come from the Hymn Lasset ab von euren Tränen , and was suggested by Wustmann . Is this evidence sufficient for an explicit statement to be included in the History and words section ?
Note that there is a Rudolph Wustmann listed as co-author with Werner Neumann as ref.4 on the page for bwv037 . (could that book have been part of the new Bach Edition which Werner Neumann was an editor of ?)
Whether Alfred Durr merely mentioned it as one of two good choices , or "suggested it" himself , I leave to the editors .
70.106.152.64 (talk) 20:39, 21 November 2013 (UTC) mgt220 a yahoo,com