Talk:South Central Farm

Started the stub today, my first article for wiki. I'm collecting sources, and seeking help from individuals that have more experience and can maintain a Nuetral Point of View (NPOV). Any questions or comments should be placed in the proper section below or please email me using the email link on the left side of the screen.

Califman831 03:47, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Should Present Tense still be used?

The farm doesn't exist in the form described in the articel anymore. Now that bulldozers have started running through it, how can anyone accurately claim to know what plant species are present? 65.125.163.221 00:23, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Patience!--Rockero 02:56, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

For What? It was cool while it lasted, but the farm is now a notable piece of history, not an actual operating farm.65.125.163.221 04:00, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

needs

• Citation formating
• Early pictures of the farm
• Internal diagram showing how lots are divided
• Describe the use of roles within the SCF

• Role of women in the SCF
• Other community roles

• Determine Actual National Ranking as Urban Farm (Community Garden)
• Obtaining public domain aerial maps of the garden and its vicinity would eliminate the need to have the google earth link. Currently, the program provides a unique veiwpoint to understanding the problem present at the SCF in relation the community.

thanks to contributors

Thanks to those who have contributed. Special thanks to the following:

Dr. Peña who provided the plant list, reference documents, and inside knowledge of the SCF.

Mr. John McIntosh for the images and captions, who's work helps the article transend the confinds of screen text.

rockero citation formating, comments, and wiki-knowledge.

Califman831 08:36, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

History Section

This part of the article needs major revision, possibly a time line of some sort.

Califman831 08:14, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

plant list

• Expand section to discuss its role as a Vovilov Center. Nikolai Vavilov
• On (800x600) screen the double columned plant list merges with the right hand photos.
• Original Double columned code Follows.

Avocado Banana Bean Butterfly plant Cactus Calabash Chamomile Chamomile Chayote Chiplin Chokecherry Dwarf nettle Floss silk tree Green amaranth Guava Husk tomato(ground cherry) Jimsonweed Maize, corn Malabar gourd (a.k.a. Fig-leaved gourd) Mallow, cheese flower

Mexican honeysuckle Mexican Parseley Mexican tarragon Pipicha Purslane; pigweed Pot marigold Red Aztec spinach Rootbeer plant Rose Sapodile Seepweed Silver wormwood Small tallowtree Snake Plant Spurred anoda, Alfafa:buffalo herb; Lucerne Succulents Sugarcane Tomato Wormseed Yerba mora

Notes

• The locatation of the farm is at 34.008937 degees latitude and -18.24305 degress longtitude
• It has a perimeter of an estimated .6 miles (3,214 ft) using google earth, actual distance may be higher or lower.
• each lot measures 200-260 meters^2.
• The public voices for the farm are Rufina Jaurez and Tezozomoc.

Elected by the General Assembly (all members of the SCF)

• Monitors have the duty to make sure each plot conforms with the rules of the farm

Rules are voted on by the General Assembly.

• women play a prodominate role in the organization.
• farmers removing internal fencing and replacing with natural barriers such as nopal cactus. (permaculture)

Comments and Suggestions

Please enter your thoughts oh how to improve this article below. Califman831 21:30, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Needs to be moved to South Central Farm. It's the only one, so there is no need to specify where it is located on the article title. I have heard that one of the common misconceptions about the farm is that the farmers are squatting, whereas they have always farmed legally. If this is true, it may be important to mention. Also, I wonder how much of a supporter we can consider Villaraigosa, considering what he could do with his power as mayor and what he actually has done. Oh yeah, and why do they grow jimsonweed? Is Dr. Peña sure that it is planted there intentionally? It is a poisonous plant that grows pretty much everywhere as a weed, and its mere presence on the land may not be an indication that it is a desired plant.--Rockero 05:12, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

The squatting/trespassing issue is questionable now that the eviction has been served. You are correct that since the creation of the garden, the farmers have been in complience with the law and had the support of city officials, but now things are up in the air. Mayor Villagraiso claims he supports the farmers, but many find this questionable, including myself, since the city announced it could not find the money to purchase the land, yet on or near that date the city found the funds for a renovation of a stadium.

Jimsonweed (Toloatzin in Nahuatl) is a plant that is present on the property and Dr Pena lists it as a tea (quality not noted). The USDA plant guide lists it as invasive and noxious. I may have to email him for permission to release the complete document and then figure out a place to store it. Please note, that there are other plants on the list that not edible and plants that are not listed currently in the USDA plant guide (i.e. chipilin an edible green). The items listed in black with no link, are in the most need of additional sources. Good night Rock.

Califman831 09:15, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

If they make tea out if it, it will cause visual and auditory hallucinations and temporary blindness. I know this from personal experience. Datura was probably used by indigenous people for spiritual and ceremonial purposes for its hallucinogenic properties, but I think it is unlikely that the South Central Farmers are cultivating it for this purpose. I don't know whether or not it is being intentionally cultivated, but I highly doubt it.--Rockero 16:12, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

On farms and gardens humans do not have absolute control over vegetation nor the environment. Datura Inoxie may be nothing more than a pest that the SCF must deal with on a day to day basis. At present the list is a subset of the 100 to 150 plants present at the farm.

Califman831 17:43, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Dr Peña writes:

The completed list (if we ever get a chance to do one) will include both cultivated varieties raised by the farmers and the wild plants present on the land (weeds, although the farmers seldom see weeds as weeds; many are edible wild relatives of cultivated varieties or otherwise seen as beneficial companion plants).

Most of the species grown at SCF are native (pre-Contact) varieties that have been grown in the biogeographic province known among biologists as Mega-Mexico (i.e., the area from Chiapas to the Southwestern U.S.A.); it is a "Vavilov Center" (a center for the original domestication of plants); thus, while most of the heirloom crops grown at SCF are "introductions" to the LA Basin, they are in fact original native plants of the Americas, which is why I often describe the farm as a collection of 5,000 year-old germplasm - that is not a metaphor but an anthropological fact.

Califman831 23:26, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

ELs

I removed a lot of external links that had nothing to do with the farm. Some of them were bad links altogether. Others may discuss some of the same issues pertaining to urban gardening, etc., but only links that directly discuss the subject of an article should be included (see WP:EL#Links to normally avoid). I see they are now back. I would just remove them again, but perhaps there is a reason they are being included of which I am unaware?--Rockero 19:01, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Some of these are being used as reference (Google Earth) and the others are momentary place holders that will be removed eventually or promoted to a different section. You may have deleted some dead links of articles that are no longer present. I have convrerted some of the articles in PDF form using PDFCreator and Openoffice.org. Notice that the list is getting shorter. Califman831

Current event

I added the {{currentevent}} tag after reading this piece by Ralph Nader in Counterpunch; seems the shit is about to hit the fan in the next couple of days. ==ILike2BeAnonymous 06:52, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

well there was speculation that the sheriff was holding out due to the elections. Califman831 07:15, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

On KPFK they were speculating that they were holding off until the station's fund drive began (and would thus be unable to give the farm the coverage they normally do)... --Rockero 01:16, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Enviromental Racism

SCF "is" an example of ER. One of the main issues is the placement of the wharehouse or other industrial use in an area that is higly populated by poor minorities. This action by the city and the developer falls under the Category of ER.

Califman831 23:59, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Besides, why was the incinerator going to be placed there in the first place?--Rockero 01:14, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. The SFC is actually a really good example of what good can be done with land. Its destruction also doesn't seem to be ER, as it is located in an area is zoned for industrial use, and has been so zoned for many years. You could potentially argue that zoning an area that is highly populated by minorities as industrial is ER, but at that point all city-based industrial zones could be considered ER. I do agree with Rockero that the incinerator proposal was a classic example of ER, however. Maybe we could note that ER relates to that. --Thalia42 01:35, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

The article is about more than the farm itself. It is about the history of the land and the community. That history is one of the people turning an environmentally-racist situation into something positive. It is also the history of a changing community. On those grounds alone, the SA should remain.--Rockero 03:05, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

POV?

POV? The "Farmers" Section seems straight out of the mouth of the two leaders. They are "just fulfilling roles" and are "not leaders"? News reports seem to strongly suggest that they are the elected leaders, and that they have affirmatively excluded those that they had disagreements with.--Thalia42 01:50, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Although I don't know much about the two, I can say that the mainstream media (and even the government) is often very wrong about who it labels as leaders of groups, especially progressive and radical groups. The FBI says Rod Coronado is the leader of the ELF, which is ridiculous since the ELF has no formal structure and definitely has no leaders. It could be POV though, but don't really know in this case. The Ungovernable Force 04:24, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

This section came from a document titled: Design Principles for community based collaborative Management by Dr. Pena. This individual spent more than a year among the SCF, it is the most reliable source i have at the moment. Unfortunately its confidential until Dr. Pena chooses to release it to the general public. One of the reasons the media sees them as leaders is due to top-down organizational thinking. This type of structure does not apply to the SCF, since they vote for assignments as a group with everyone having equal rank. I appoligize for the quality of my writing. I am very out of practice. I originally just wanted to create a stub with some brief information, but kept adding and collecting further information. I do value your insight in how to improve and balance the article.

Califman831 07:43, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Protection

Due to continuous pornographic vandalism from IPs and newly-registered users (many of which I've had to block), I have protected this page. Please continue to improve the article but beware of vandalism. When it dies down let me know and I'll unprotect.--Rockero 23:10, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Amazing Page

I want to thank the editors for making an amazing page. As the situation with the farm goes to hell, it'll be a critical resource in saving what is possible. I hope the negotiators apply proper pressure to green South Central and keep hope alive despite the political bullflop. Here's a link to an article about the backroom dealing. I can't verify that it's true, but if it can be corroborated, it belongs in the article.[1]— Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.245.194.211 (talk • contribs)

Refs etc.

I think it's about time we started converting the inline external link citations into a references/footnotes section. As I began the process this morning, I was stalled when the very first link I clicked ([2]) had died! Also, we need a reference for Horowitz's decision on why not to sell the farm back. All I keep hearing is rumors about anti-Semitic remarks. I'll bet it was La Voz de Aztlán. They are always messing things up for us. But since it is so crucial to the story, some citation is necessary. And I suppose we need a reference for the early history. If we can get those, then I can get busy formatting the citations in-line.--Rockero 03:07, 15 June 2006 (UTC)