Talk:Longevity claims

Past table and "fl."

In the Longevity claims § Past section, the table has a column that is either the date of death or the date last reported alive. Some of these values have an "fl." (flourished) in front of them, meaning they were alive as of that date. Does that mean the ones without the "fl." are definitely dates of death, or just that the "fl." are definitely dates last reported alive? This should be made clear in the description of the table if someone knows how the list was generated/maintained. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 20:09, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

The fluorit should be included for those that have no known date of death. I added it to any that I moved from the Present section but not to any that were added/moved beforehand. Note that the editor who added most of the entries in 2011/12 (including the Incomplete longevity claims, which I moved to its own article]]) no longer seems interested in editing this article, or wiki in general. Cheers, DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 21:36, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

OK. I added a note to the table explaining it. Maybe someday someone will do some digging and confirm the ambiguous ones. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 00:22, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Saro Dursun

Saro Dursun's birth date, and existence, is confirmed by the two sources to Ratsit.se and Birthday.se which contain data from the official population register in Sweden. http://www.ratsit.se/Content/AboutRatsit.aspx and http://www.birthday.se/sa-sager-lagen confirm that the data from these websites come from the official population register in Sweden. When/if she dies, it will only take a couple of weeks before she is removed from these websites (as well as other population register sites). Her residence is officially known in the official population register in Sweden, so it's easy to confirm whether she's still alive or not. If you search for Bengt Hallberg (born 13 September 1932, died 2 July 2013) and Camilla Odhnoff (born 6 June 1928, died 16 July 2013) on Ratsit.se and Birthday.se, you will not find either of these two people. As long as Saro Dursun appears on official Swedish population register websites, she should be assumed alive. I've added other sources too, so if the first two aren't enough, then pick a "Latest report" date based on the other sources. Also, the outcome of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Saro Dursun (redirect to List of living supercentenarians#Unverified living supercentenarians) confirms that her birth date and existence claims are verifiable, solid and recent enough for inclusion. Heymid (contribs) 07:04, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

The problem is that it is not wikis job to "assume she is alive". That she was alive at some point when then the register was updated does not give a date when she was known to definitely still be alive. The criteria for this article is that there must be a report that she was alive within the last 2 years. None of the citations given provide that information, the date that they were retrieved is not nearly good enough. Unless there is a report that she was alive in the last 2 years (that's 2 birthdays that could reasonably be expected to be reported in the media) she should not be included. As an aside, the 110 club, which accept most claims, dismisses this as unlikely, try google for "saro dursun alive 112" (the site violates the wiki spam filter). DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 08:14, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

The population registers in Sweden are frequently updated, and they contain data from the Swedish Tax Agency. For example, as soon as someone has had its 16th birthday, that person is immediately added into the database on these websites. For what it's worth, it's just a claim (like all other entries in the list). If anything, could Saro Dursun possibly be included in the "Past" list (given the sources from 2009)? Heymid (contribs) 08:26, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Historical personalities

Are personalities whose historical existence is not in doubt but who lived in the remote past appropriate for this list, or are they to be listed in Longevity myths? Especially when they are venerated religious personalities? The inclusion of Zhang Daoling and Hsu Yun makes it appear that neither factor makes them necessarily inappropriate for this list.

I'm asking because I have (curiously only after repeated visits to that article) eventually noticed the lifespan given in Fotudeng and was surprised and immediately highly sceptical, especially considering the significantly lower life expectancies in antiquity. The talk page discussion has made me aware of a further case, Śīlabhadra. What to do about cases like these? --Florian Blaschke (talk) 00:48, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

I would think Longevity myths would be more appropriate, and as there is neither a date of birth or of death, if he belonged anywhere else it would probably be in Incomplete longevity claims rather than here. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 01:02, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Good point, thank you; I missed that. Anthony the Great is a similar case. The German article even has a footnote pointing out that – besides the fact that the lifespan derives from a strongly idealising hagiography – the rural population in the 3rd century cared very little about birthdays (as opposed to death days) and so people would not usually know their precise age. The credibility of the life data is therefore minimal. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 00:58, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Links

There is an 'notable persons who reached a significant age' on WP - can it be linked to from here. 80.254.147.68 (talk) 16:29, 15 April 2014 (UTC)