Talk:Control of cities during the Syrian civil war

Semi-protected edit request on 22 November 2015

Jabal Hayyan under SAA control Ald Aba (talk) 19:03, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Reliable source reported that the Hezbollah/SAA took al Hayyal(Jabal Hayyan) strategic hill, overlooking at the southern gate of Palmyra.here 46.200.240.93 (talk) 20:38, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Mdann52 (talk) 19:47, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

SAA advance in the vicinity of Al Qaryatayn

SAA advance and regain control of the points and hills in the surroundings of the town Al Qaryatayn to south-east of the city Homs.SOHRsourcesource Pro government source reported that the SAA retake five villages and towns in the Homs countryside.Breaking News 37.52.24.241 (talk) 21:09, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

SOHR reported that the clashes are still continuing between SAA and ISIS in the vicinity of the town of Al Qaryatayn, amid reports that SAA advance and capture the points in the vicinity of the town.SOHR 37.52.24.241 (talk) 19:59, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Conflict between rebels and YPG/SDF in nothern Aleppo countryside

Rebels give deadline in the 48 hours for YPG in order that they to withdraw from the 7 villages Maryamayn, Inab, Qanbrya, Tatmarash, Shawarighat, Tanab, Al-Kishta'ar in Aleppo countryside.Charles Listersourcesource pro-opposition source said that the rebels will use force to retake from YPG these villages sourcesource also pro-opposition source said that the YPG is trying to storm FSA-Held village of Malikiyah near Azaz.sourcesource and attacking villages of Ziyarah and Turabiyahsourcesource 37.52.24.241 (talk) 19:10, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Pro-opposition news chanel Qasioun News reported about clashes between rebels and Syrian Democratic Forces(SDF) in outskirt of the towns Malikiyah and Al-Kishta'ar in countryside of Aleppo.Qasioun News 37.52.24.241 (talk) 19:34, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Al-Masdar are reporting too now. Should we mark/ put the villages out on the map as contested (lime-yellow/ yellow-grey)? Rhocagil (talk) 21:26, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

It should be yellow-grey(if there will be more fighting without truce in the coming day). Cause mainly YPG fights Al nusra, there are FSA groups on both sides.Totholio (talk) 21:40, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

This statemet is equivalent to saying that FSA does not exist anymore. I put yellow green, if yellow gray is considered better, I have no objections, it is fine for me. On the other hand I wonder the logic of yellow-green dots elsewhere under the banner of SDF.Paolowalter (talk) 22:27, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Then put yellow-grey. Paolowalter As for the logic about yellow-green under the banner of SDF I could go for a total new color for SDF or just put SDF beside Kurds in the description of the yellow dot ("Kurds & SDF"), but that´s not up to me to decide. Rhocagil (talk) 23:10, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

According to YPG officials they are only clashing in Sheikh Maqsood meanwhile it is Thuwar vs nusra in north Aleppo so it should be green-grey :DTotholio (talk) 08:18, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

• Reliable and pro-opposition sources earlier said that Jaysh al-Thuwar together with YPG was trying to storm FSA-held village of Al-Malikiyahsourcesourcesource And today kurdish source said that Jaysh al-Thuwar liberated the village of Al-Malikiyah from the Al-Nusra and Ahrar Al-Sham and strengthen its position on the road between Aleppo and Azaz.Hawar News So we can't put this village as under control YPG and FSA. 46.201.74.151 (talk) 11:48, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Most starnge SOHR posting [SOHR http://www.syriahr.com/en/2015/11/continued-clashes-in-aleppo-countryside-3/], it mentions clashes 'between regime forces and rebels around al-Malkia village near A’zaz and around Faisal near Kashtaar'. The clashes are likely YPG rebels, apparently SOHR is treating YPG as allied of the government.Paolowalter (talk) 12:41, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Also pro-opposition source said that the rebels claimed to retake villages of Kashtaar and Mezre from YPG and that clashes still ongoing in the village of the Malikiya.here So all sources confirmed that it is the conflict between YPGand their allies against the rebels from FSA and their allies but not SDF against Al Nusra. 46.201.74.151 (talk) 13:30, 27 November 2015 (UTC)Paolowalter (talk) 21:01, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

DuckZz changed Al-Kishta'ar and Ziyarah to green/gray without reliable sources, unknown or twitter. Please revert them, I cannot without breaking 1RR because I reverted his change in Sheik Miskin.Paolowalter (talk) 21:01, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Latest news from Al-Masdar SDF fronted by Jaysh Al-Thuwar takes Malikiya. Rhocagil (talk) 00:12, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

It says it was YPG+Thuwar vs fsa+nusra, it can't be yellow/green half circle.Totholio (talk) 07:50, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

SDF led by Jaysh Al-Thuwar captured the villages of Al-Malkiyah, Al-Faysal from the joint forces the FSA/Al-Nusra/Ahrar Al-Sham.sourcesource Also following the loss of both Al-Faysal and Al-Malkiyah, the Free Syrian Army’s leadership issued a statement that condemned the Syrian Democratic Forces for cooperating with the Russians.sourcesource So for now clear that SDF it is enemy of Syrian rebels including FSA, Anhar Al Sham and Al Nusra. And we cant put villages in Aleppo province which taken SDF as under control of SDF and FSA/allies because SDF retake these villages from FSA/allies+Al Nusra. 37.52.29.233 (talk) 09:24, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

• RhocagilPaolowalterDuckZzTotholio SOHR reported that violent clashes continue between Syrian Democratic Forces composed of units (YPG, YPJ, Euphrates Volcano ,Jaysh al-Thuwar,Al-Sanadid Forces Syriac Military Council) against Islamic factions and Al-Nusra in Kashtaar,Tanab, and other areas in A’zaz in the northern countryside.SOHRSOHR 37.52.29.233 (talk) 12:18, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Paolowalter Does THIS mean that you want to change all the "yellow+lime half circles" in Kobane and Hasakah to yellow? I find no "all inclusive" logic in your edit. Rhocagil (talk) 13:56, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

The recent change of alliance made clear that YPG and FSA (or whatever goes under green color) are allies. SDF consists of YPG plus some small groups previously associated to rebels (green) that now are fighting against FSA and Al-Nusra and are supported b yRussain air force. At some point SOHR called them 'regime forces'. I suggest that locations controlled by SDF (only YPG or with some other groups) goes yellow without creating additional ambiguity with the mixed control Yellow-Green.Paolowalter (talk) 15:35, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

RhocagilPaolowalterDuckZzTotholio Pro-opposition source clear said that the opposition factions regain control of the villages of Malkiya and Tenb after fierce battles with Syria Democratic Forces."here So these data confirmed that some rebels(as Jaysh Al Thuwar) joined to SDF which is was created on base of kurdish forces the YPG,YPJ and Syriac Military Council. And other rebels now fight against SDF in Aleppo province. 37.52.29.233 (talk) 19:08, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Also Kurdih source said that still ongoing attacks with support of artillery and tanks by Ahrar Al Sham, Al Nusra and allies around Azaz. SDF defending the village of Al-Kishta'ar.ANHA 37.52.29.233 (talk) 19:28, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Most units the Syrian Democratic Forces it is the Kurdish forces plus some rebel groups but most it is Kurdish units. But now some of big rebel groups such as Ahrar ash-Sham, al-Nusra and some other smaller rebel groups for now fight against SDF. And Free Syrian Army also now acted against Kurdish forces and on based these data we can said that Free Syrian Army also against SDF in Aleppo province.Charles ListersourceQasioun Newssourcesource 37.52.29.233 (talk) 19:52, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

RhocagilPaolowalterDuckZzTotholioSelocan49 SDF declared they control of 9 new villages in northern Aleppo after a series of firefights with the Islamist rebels of the FSA, Al-Nusra”, and Harakat Ahrar Al-Sham.The villages captured by the SDF in the last 48 hours are the following: Al-Faysal, Al-Malkiyah,Kashta’ar, Tanab,Maryamayn,Mirash,Maryamayn Inab,Shawarss,Al-Shawarighat.sourcesource I think that we need the new color for SDF. 37.52.30.223 (talk) 07:59, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

I think that yellow used for YPG should be used also for SDF. YPG is the backbone of SDF. It makes no sense and is unpractical to distinguish between them. Therefore all purpoted yellow-green should go yellow.Paolowalter (talk) 09:38, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

RhocagilPaolowalterDuckZzTotholioSelocan49 Also here Rebels declare regained several villageshere for YPG & allies.videosource So at this point, we all must recognize that the Syrian rebels are fight against the Kurdish forces. Rebels against SDF. 37.52.30.223 (talk) 12:45, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

• RhocagilPaolowalterDuckZzTotholioSelocan49 U.S backed Fateh Halab/FSA claim to have captured villages of Kashtar and Taneb during clashes with U.S backed SDF/YPG.sourcevideovideosourcesourcesource Also pro-FSA source said that the rebels retake the villages of Malikiya, Tanab, Maryamayn and Anab from Jaysh al Thuwar(SDF) and said thatthe number of Jaysh al Thuwar (SDF) fighters surrendered to rebels.sourcesource SyrianI Rebels (FSA & Fatah Halab Op Room) against SDF in Aleppo province.video Rebels now fighting with YPG/SDF using Hell Cannon.video Pro-opp. source said that SDF forces claiming they took back Maryamain and Anab from rebels coalition and advancing toward Azaz-Aleppo road.here Also Pro-opp. source said that clashes still ongoing near the Azaz-Aleppo road as YPG are reinforcing secular FSA against the islamist FSA and salafi forces.hre Kurdish source reported that locals in villages around Azaz/Afrin says jihadists, many foreigners,are killing civilians and urging SDF/YPG to intervene.here Also locals also say many of those who attacked Jaish al-Thuwwar are the Turks and other foreigners,backed by Turkey.here So for now it became clear that most of rebel goups including parts of Free Syrian Army now clashes jointly with Al Nusra and Islamic groups against YPG/SDF/Jaysh Al Thuwar. So it is of end of cooperation between rebels/FSA and YPG/SDF. So in the Aleppo province we need put in yellow color villages which take YPG/SDF/Jaysh Al Thuwar from rebels but not as green+yellow. 37.52.30.223 (talk) 14:16, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
• SOHR said that Russian warplanes bombed places near the town of Deir Jamal, in conjunction with clashes between Rebels/Islamic factions/Al Nusra against Jaysh Al Thuwar in the Azaz countryside to north of Aleppo and confirmed that the Islamic factions and Al Nusra take control of the village Maryamayn.SOHR 37.52.30.223 (talk) 15:19, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
• rebels from FSA burn the flag of the SDF after capturing 2 Kurdish villages.video 37.52.30.223 (talk) 17:26, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

I would support and encourage SDF and Euphrates Volcano to be changed to Yellow as long as the Yellow Dot mentions that some areas are controlled by them and specifies the coalition.Prohibited Area (talk) 17:56, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Prohibited Area I fully agree with you one that! Like this in the description under the map ( = Kurds & SDF ) Rhocagil (talk) 18:09, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Rhocagil More liek this (in my opinion): ( = Kurds (Including EV and SDF).Prohibited Area (talk) 20:52, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Rhocagil yes that works too, but EV are supposed to be a part of SDF, or do you mean likt this because Thuwar al Raqqa might only be a part of EV and not SDF (messy shit). Anyway, that fine with me.Rhocagil (talk) 21:21, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

http://aranews.org/2015/11/ypg-%D8%AA%D8%A3%D8%B3%D8%B1-%D8%A3%D8%B1%D8%A8%D8%B9%D8%A9-%D9%85%D9%86-%D9%85%D8%B3%D9%84%D8%AD%D9%8A-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%86%D8%B5%D8%B1%D8%A9-%D9%88%D8%A3%D8%AD%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4/ Maryamayn reportedly recaptured by Afrin SDF according to ARA. Can I make edit?Prohibited Area (talk) 17:22, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

https://twitter.com/archicivilians/status/671678342786121728 Rebels reportedly control Anab and Tanab, both of which are indicated as partially or fully controlled by YPG according to our map.Prohibited Area (talk) 17:10, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

YPG advance ahainst ISIS in surroundings of Mount Abdulaziz

SOHR reported about clashes between ISIS and YPG in several axes in surroundings of Mount Abdulaziz where YPG advance and take control of the five villages, farms and communities.SOHR 37.52.24.241 (talk) 16:11, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

SDF capured the villages of Souda and Abd in outskirt of Abd-Alaziz mount nearby Abyad oil station as well taken over the village Taban nearby to the town Arisha. Also clashes took place in Maqasem area in north of Kabiba oil field where SDF captured the many hills nearby villages of Sawi ,Khan and Janabat.source 37.52.29.233 (talk) 21:15, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Suweida

Is anubody able to locate Khirbat Samar in Al-Sweida [AlMasdar http://www.almasdarnews.com/article/syrian-army-captures-the-village-of-khirbat-samar-in-al-sweida/]?Paolowalter (talk) 08:44, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

• SAA captured this villag Samad Because source said that SAA captured village Samar which is located near the Dara’a-Sweida border near the town Busra Al-Sham.source also later source said that SAA is advancing towards the city of Busra Al-Sham after imposing full control over the village of Samar in southwestern Sweida.here 46.201.74.151 (talk) 12:59, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Yellow

Could you please think over the "Yellow" color ? It is indeed very hard to distinguish this color in a background map which ist itself almost yellow ( light Yellowish beige). I think a more forceful color ( yellowish orange) ist much better to see and is not far from this accustomed yellow.to compare: compare
--212.75.52.4 (talk) 08:45, 27 November 2015 (UTC)MapMaker

Your proposal is much better.

I agree. We should change to proposed colour.Prohibited Area (talk) 16:09, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Agree too. Iraq map would need changes for consistency too then.Ariskar (talk) 17:30, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

It´s a good idea. Rhocagil (talk) 23:51, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

I am fine with the proposal.Paolowalter (talk) 09:38, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

And who is going to do this ? --212.75.52.4 (talk) 11:12, 30 November 2015 (UTC)MapMaker

Easier solution: lighten the background color of the map. Roboskiye (talk) 16:28, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Roboskiye I agree. How would we do that?Prohibited Area (talk) 17:12, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Then we must change all Maps for Iraq, Yemen, Iraq-Syria and Syria with Paint-Applications. But changing the Yellow-Dots can be made one time, and deployed programmatically and is a very flexible Soluton.--212.75.52.4 (talk) 08:59, 1 December 2015 (UTC)MapMaker

If changing the shade of dots is easier, then it's OK for me. Yellow is a color of YPG flag while orange seems too much like red which is SAA's color. I propose a stronger yellow than current yellow but not too close to orange as proposed above. Roboskiye (talk) 09:28, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

It is good if the colors somehow fit the flag colors, but nevertheless, it is a matter of definition. F.e. Jibhat-Nusrat ist gray, has nothing to do with their colors. Therefore I vote for yellowish orange, very close to yellow but not so light.

AND: here is a new encahced road map (some more roads) :enhanced1 --212.75.52.4 (talk) 10:36, 1 December 2015 (UTC)MapMaker

Deir Jamal

Why is Deir Jamal shown as YPG held? According to rebel maps it is controlled by rebel forces. This would make sense as it is located along the Azaz-Aleppo road which is under complete control of the rebels of which have clashes with the Efrin YPG after the YPG advanced on villages close to Azaz and the road which could jeoporadise the supply route. May I have the authorisation to change the town to green?Prohibited Area (talk) 16:09, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

I don´t trust maps, thou I can´t give you a source I think i was reading this week that it´s still under YPG control. But it´s serenely ot impossible that you are right. Can you give links to the maps you are talking about? Rhocagil (talk) 23:51, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

[[1]] [[2]] [[3]] All show Deir Jamal as Rebel-held. Considering this comes from 3 different mapmakers it is unlikely that all will be wrong.Prohibited Area (talk) 10:17, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Maybe so but which rebel,Nusra ,SDF or FSA .There seems to be a major fight going on in this region between rebel groups until there is confirmation i think its best left alone .86.178.102.85 (talk) 12:24, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Deir Jamal is also controlled by YPG since 2014. Selocan49 (talk) 16:11, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Banes

Village Banes south of Aleppo still under SAA. SOHR only said about uncertain information about the progress of the rebels in the vicinity of village Bans. But not said that rebels captured this village.SOHR 37.52.29.233 (talk) 12:25, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Of course we cannot use the following since it isn't a reliable source, but this pro-SAA map by Peto Lucem [4] shows Halasah (Khalasah) and Sa'ibiyah under rebel control. We should look out for reliable sources giving more information about control of these locations. Schluppo (talk) 17:04, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

SAA advance in Daraa

[SOHR http://www.syriahr.com/en/2015/11/continued-clashes-in-sahm-al-jolan-and-advances-for-regime-forces-in-dara-countryside/] report that SAA too control of Kherba Komjra village. Is anybody able to locate it?Paolowalter (talk) 15:29, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Zawr Mughar

village Zawr Mughar to east of Jarablus contested YPG and ISIS.here 37.52.29.233 (talk) 17:19, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Belligrant Colors

there are some difficulties showing SDF advances on the map while we have some rebels including ahrar sham fighting other rebels SDF (green vs green).

maybe its the time we make some changes in alliances. I think there are two types of rebels. those who ally JAN and those who are not. we can find some rebels including ahrar sham, jaysh al islam, jund al aghsa, zinki etc. whom often coordinate alnusra fighting kurds and SAA.and they never fought alnusra. maybe they better be grey or a variant of grey.

at the other side we can find moderate rebels (frankly they are a few on the map) including SDF. they could be green or any other color. 85.15.42.246 (talk) 05:33, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Question ...Does the SDF fight against the SAA .If not can they be classified as rebels?

Yes they can, since they reject the regime administration and rule their held areas independently from the regime

Well that maybe your interpritaton but they seem to kill more FSA and I.S. than Government Army troops .86.178.102.85 (talk) 15:23, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

For now clear that SDF and Rebels/FSA no more allies at the moment they are enemies. Opposition sources confirmed that Rebels/FSA now fight against SDF.sourcevideovideosourcesourcesourcesourcesource videovideoherehreherehere Also rebels burned flags of SDF(offshoot of YPG) in Aleppo countryside.here[5] Pro opp. source said that for now the worst attitude betweeb the FSA and YPG (as SDF) since the beginning of war, after failed SDF offensive backed of Russian Air Force against rebels in Aleppo province.source 37.52.30.223 (talk) 18:14, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

We don't care about that. Rebel groups fight against each other, so what ? Both are still rebels and their tensions should not care us. Our map shows the clashes between Rebels/Gov./Kurds and ISIS, everything else is just too detailed and not for this map, as this map is made to understand the Syrian conflict under normal conditions, for normal people. The current clashes between FSA and FSA under SDF coalition is just politic and nothing else. Ignore it and keep editing the map based on rules. DuckZz (talk) 18:33, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Hardly read something more nonsense. Once former FSA and FSA (if it still exists) fight with each other they are not in the same alliance anymore. Furthermore SDF is not fighting anymore (or as YPG has never fought) the government, the situation changes rapidly. As far as I can judge, government and SDF are de facto allies. They fight th esame enemies: IS, Al-Nusra, FSA (whatever that means), Turkey and Sausi Arabia. They are both supported by Russia. The only difference is that SDF is somehow backed by USA while government is opposed.Paolowalter (talk) 20:04, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

We can add this to the description under the map: " = Kurds (Including EV & SDF )" or we can add: " EV & SDF ". (ping! Prohibited Area). And DuckZz this is one of the most important things that have happened on the ground since the Russian intervention and maybe also a result of it, so this tension care the situation a alot. Rhocagil (talk) 01:58, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Im opposed to the for kurds + SDF. SDF is part of rebels supporting by world powers and may engage in the next government, while kurds might have some kind of autonomy in the next government. then their territory color should be clear and different from the others. Im oppose to the for the SDF too until the other rebels who help and coordinate Al-Nusra have the same color (green). soon in the future world powers will clarify terrorist and non-terrorist rebels and we have to make our map ready to indicate these facts. 85.15.42.246 (talk) 07:08, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

I have long been seeking a solution for this problem and got a very good solution. The original secular FSA who have now shrunk to small groups allied with YPG under umbrella name of SDF should retain their green color, while the salafist/islamist jihadi groups fighting for Sharia law such as Ahrar ash-Sham and their brethren should be labelled in a light grey, as apposed to Jabhat al-Nusra who are labelled in dark grey (could be further darkened a little bit more than it is now) and ISIS in black. Roboskiye (talk) 16:18, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Roboskiye That´s an acceptable move to, but maybe a darker green for Ahrar and company. But I´m still in favor of for SDF Rhocagil (talk) 16:37, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Roboskiye SOHR clear said that clashes continued between Kurdish SDF and rebels around Kashtaar and al-Malkia in A’zaz countryside what killed 10 rebels and 8 SDF.SOHR So SDF it is the Kurdish forces plus Jaysh al Thuwar which joint to Kurds in their fight against rebels. Rebels/FSA now fight against SDF and rebels burned flags of SDF(offshoot of YPG) in Aleppo countryside.here[6] So we need use for kurds + SDF. 37.52.29.85 (talk) 16:45, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

About one third of YPG are non-ethnic Kurds, mostly secular or leftist Arabs. Moreover, about two thirds of non-YPG groups who are active inside SDF are ethnic Arabs. For example, in recent clashes in northern Aleppo several ethnic Arab members of SDF got killed or beheaded by islamists FSA. So yellow does not necessarily represent Kurdish. Roboskiye (talk) 16:56, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

I agree with Roboskiye, we should use different colours for Salafist Rebels and 'Moderate Rebels'. The Moderates should retain the light-green icon whilst the Salafists and Radical Islamists should be given a dark-green colour. I also think that SDF should be identified as Kurdish because of its strong connections and affiliations to the YPG, however the yellow symbol should specify that it includes SDF, which includes Arabic, non-Kurdish, fighters which constitute a minority of the SDF. Such as = Kurds (Including SDF non-Kurdish fighters]].Prohibited Area (talk) 17:12, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

The solution is as following:

• = YPG/YPJ
• = SDF
• = Secular FSA
• = Islamist FSA
• = al-Nusra
• Roboskiye (talk) 17:26, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Roboskiye Very good idea. For now it is the best solution. Good job! 37.52.29.85 (talk) 17:54, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

It´s a somewhat good proposition, but i would like the forum to specify witch are the "secular FSA"? in my view the only secular FSA is the ones that have joined up in SDF. Anyway I would not consider use of the light grey (it blends in a little bit to well in the map background). I would prefer something more dark green and like this

• = Ahrar ash-Sham/ Islamist FSA

Rhocagil (talk) 20:11, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

All FSA are islamits they snackbaring all time and forced women to wearing Vein when they are

Syrian army and Kurds are secular but Kudrs are separatits Kurds just controlled the so called SDF

Most, but not all. There are over a dozen of smaller groups who have survived islamists pressure/conquest. Currently most secular FSA are operating in areas close to YPG control, though there is another one emerging in south with US support. I think there are even a number of secular FSA pockets in western Syria too. Roboskiye (talk) 20:13, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Well I agree to this, just use another color then this grey on . Rhocagil (talk) 20:20, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

The reason for choosing grey is it is a shade of black, similar to dark grey (al-Nusra) and solid black (ISIS), indicating that all these groups are islamist and fighting more or less for the same aim: an Islamic political entity ruled by Sharia law. We can choose another shade of grey as shown in this page: Shades of gray. Silver for Islamist FSA and dimgray for Jabhat al-Nusra. Roboskiye (talk) 20:32, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

"slategray" then maybe, as long as it has contrast to the maps background color.Rhocagil (talk) 20:44, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

I disagree using for SDF. I propose:

• = Kurdish Forces (Including Kurdish Affiliates: SDF Coalition)
• = Moderate Rebels
• = Salafists
• = Al-Nusra

The yellow dot should also include a notation mentioning the fact there are non-Kurdish fighters embedded in SDF coalition which are classed as yellow. We should decide on which rebels that hold territory should be classed as 'Salafists' [Radical Rebels] and which should be 'moderate' opposition. We should then link the list to the key.Prohibited Area (talk) 20:45, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Should be specifically 'Kurdish Forces' and not YPG as the icon already encompasses Kurdish-affiliated Sutoro, Christian and Assyrian militia and if the planned update goes ahead, it will also include the SDF.Prohibited Area (talk) 20:49, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

I strongly disagree using the word "moderate" it´s subjective word. What is "moderate" according to Saudi Arabia is no way "moderate" to me. "Secular" is a better word.Rhocagil (talk) 20:55, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

I agree. However again secular may be inaccurate to describe the rebels in question. Secular implies that they are not Islamist when in fact i'm quite confident 100% of rebel groups are Islamists - however others more so than others. I think we need a different adjective for the 'moderate'-'secular' rebels.Prohibited Area (talk) 21:09, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Should we keep as Syrian Opposition, and only add = Salafists. This would prevent us from inaccurately describing the 'moderate' forces.Prohibited Area (talk) 21:17, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Therefore:

• = Kurdish Forces (Including Kurdish Affiliates)
• = Syrian Opposition
• = Salafists
• = Al-Nusra

Can we also amend Armed Groups in Syrian War to detail Salafist and Syrian Opposition groups and use that as a reference for the key.Prohibited Area (talk) 21:20, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

I say this is a stupid idea. and will be waist of time and effort and unmaintainable. I longtime apposed the seperate color for Al-Nusra and here it is going even worse. And all nusra vs FSA control on our map is wrong. no other map has this distinction . Nusra exists everware in green are and in small groups. no single evidence of them controlling any land with no othergroup presence. the map is perfect as it is. clashes between kurds and rebels is clear no need for more colors if there are some arabs between kurgs so what they are still kurds domilated Helmy1453 (talk) 21:41, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Helmy1453 It´s important to show that the Kurdish force is more then a kurdish force because "moderate" FSA join them in SDF, even if kurds are majority. And according to me we can mark all green dots grey because I se al elements that collaborate with Al-Nusra as Al-Nusra. But thats my private opinion and here we need a big consensus. But the absolut minimum change should be to explain yellow as * = Kurdish Forces (Including Kurdish Affiliates) Rhocagil (talk) 21:59, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

And red is more than just SAA still it is one color. one team means one color this discussin happened when people wanted seperate color for Hezbulah . and we agreed that as long as they are the same team as SAA and not clashing with them then they are all red. the same some groups go and fight with Kerds fine let them all be yellow, call them kurds+SDF but they are not rebels. let me put it this way if they are not bombed by Russian and SAA flights they are not rebels or opposition and they should not be green Helmy1453 (talk) 22:23, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Jabhat al-Nusra who is allied to salafist FSA has its own color but not non-salafist FSA who are considered as infidels and robbers by salafist FSA, and therefore at fierce fighting with eachother?! BTW The non-salafist FSA should not be marked with same color as their enemies i.e. Salafist FSA. Maybe simply yellow? Then comes the complicated question: what about other non-salafist FSA elsewhere in Syria?

Regarding Hezbullah, it is not a separate belligerent allied to SAA, but it is a supporter of SAA, who fights on behalf of SAA. So Hezbullah does not need a specific color other than red. Roboskiye (talk) 08:31, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

"Then comes the complicated question: what about other non-salafist FSA elsewhere in Syria? " It is not complicated it is simple. Salafie or not Orthodux Russian or Extremist Shiaa Iraninan Militia doesn't make difference. the map is not to describe my or your political Idea. All what you want is to POV this map . Stop pushing your political agenda on the map to support Assad ans Russian point of view. It is simple this map is Control situation on land. groups that fight together and controls together gets the same color. All oppsition including Al-nusra are fighting together and shariong control on the land they should be the same color (green). Kurds and SDF fights together and rule together they get the same color (Yellow). and the same for red and black simple . THERE IS NO CLASHES BETWEEN SALAFIE AND MODERATE FSA . they are allies and work and control together. co fightuing and coexisting, these are the facts and should bee ALL SAME COLOR.

• RoboskiyeHelmy1453Rhocagil Prohibited Area Need villages of Malikia, Tatumrash, Shawarghet el Arz, Tanab and Al Kishta as undr contol of Islamist FSA. Pro opposition source confirmed this source And I agree with this propose from Prohibited Area:
• = Kurdish Forces (Including Kurdish Affiliates: SDF Coalition)
• = Moderate Rebels
• = Salafists
• = Al-Nusra
• It will clarify the map. 37.53.148.162 (talk) 19:09, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

FSA retake the Grain Silos in northern Aleppo from SDF/YPG video from rebels. 37.53.148.162 (talk) 19:18, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

This is a stupid idea and it will ruin the map. This is wikipedia and not twitter where trolls and underage kids have disqusions about "goatfuckers and the difference between 2 million rebel groups, islamists, bit less, more less, less more, terrorists, extremists, moderate, less moderate". Please spare us this nonsense and keep editing the map as it this. DuckZz (talk) 23:00, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

What do we do when rebels clash with each other then, as in North Aleppo right now? Given this map is meant to make an accurate portrayal of the conflict, we would be omitting a conflict in the war.Prohibited Area (talk) 11:41, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

.Prohibited Area I answered this question already twenty times ? don't you even read? THERE IS NO CLASH BETWEEN REBELS in North Aleppo. Clashes are between rebels and SDF which no rebel consider as part of rebels. the Russia supports SDF and don't consider it part of rebels, Goverment doesn't attack them and doaes't count them as rebels . THEY DONT FIGHT SAA and don't count themselfs as rebels. They have a color which is yellow. put a notation on yellow saung kurds and SDF . perid problem solved. no need for any more colors. what is wrong with you perople ?? (talk) thank you . Helmy1453 DuckZz 14:22, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

It seams that at least there is a consensus of this * = Kurdish Forces (& SDF Coalition) Rhocagil (talk) 18:34, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Helmy1453 So the coalition Jaysh al-Thuwar, which is a part of the FSA, and consist of formers members of the FSA Hazzm and SRF Movements is not a rebel group? OK, thanks for the clarification. Also there were recent clashes between AaS and another rebel group in southern Idlib, however the clashes probably subsided and were major.Prohibited Area (talk) 21:05, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

All insurgents are except the Kurds are islamists

Al Qaeda (Nusra) have minor or major presence in all areas controlled by the Insurgents the SDF is totally controlled by the Kurds- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.210.138.186 (talk) 21:49, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

We cannot use ethnic term to name political and military factions in this war. Kurds are present in all fighting parties. Of course many, maybe the majority, support the YPG. On the other hand, since the beginning some non kurds joined YPG as well. That is more evident now with the formation of SDF. Therefore we must adopt = SDF (including YPG). Some previous rebels forces joined SDF (like Jaysh al Thuwar) and apparently are supported by Russia. In practice those group changed side, their goal is not anymore the overthrow the government but fight IS and other rebel groups. As to the suggestion to distinguish between Salafist, Non-Salafist, secular FSA, it simply makes no sense. There is no such a distinction on the ground, even if we agreed there is no way we can sort which area is occupied by whom. Conclusion: once we turn all yellow-green to yellow (SDF) the map is fine.Paolowalter (talk) 08:39, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

As stated above by other contributors, there seems to be a consensus of changing yellow-green to yellow. The description for yellow should be: = YPG (including SDF). Roboskiye (talk) 09:22, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

No Kurdish Control West of Euphrates

I will let various international sources do the talking. Please do not change colors relying on how you wish to see the map.

• Hurriyet DN
• NY Times
• Rudaw
• Al Jazeera
• Hurriyet

Thanks. Berkaysnklf (talk), 21:36, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

al-Aziziyah

village al-Aziziyah still not taken of rebels still under control by SAA.sourceSOHRsourcesourcesource 37.52.29.85 (talk) 07:34, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Arafat (Arafit) change to SAA

Breaking: Syrian Army Captures the Strategic Village of Arafat in Northeast Latakia
Syrian Army Captures Jabal Kashkar in Northern #Latakia . --212.75.52.4 (talk) 11:48, 1 December 2015 (UTC)MapMaker

Arafit is  Done. --Hogg 22 (talk) 12:08, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

SOHR said that SAA captured Arafit, Raweesat Sheikhou,Tel Sultan.SOHR FoXrEpOrTeR (talk) 17:03, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

• SAA taking full control over the villages of Arafit and Ruwayssat Shekhu, Tal al-Sultan in the area of al-Jeb al-Ahmar, in the northern countryside of Latakia.SOHR 37.53.148.162 (talk) 19:39, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Homs – al-Waer

Don't be in a rush to change something, but there seems to be a (at least agreed) deal for rebels to pull out of this place and be safely moved to other rebel-held places. So the control of this town will eventually change to Syrian government...after the implementation fo the deal http://news.yahoo.com/syria-deal-rebels-leave-last-homs-district-governor-131754086.html Be cautious because the deal is not implemented yet, so currently the control is mostly from rebels(or mixed)...this might change any time soon

When the deal is done it should be Government & Opposition stable mixed control (truce) not red if I understand correctly the rules Helmy1453 (talk) 17:28, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

:: Not truce. Under the agreement, rebels will leave the Al Waer area and arrive to areas which under control of rebels in the provinces of Idlib and Hama. And this area of the city of Homs will stay under control of the Syrian army. 37.53.148.162 (talk) 18:24, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

The Terrorists are leaving today first bus of 300 Terrorists have left, after that all the Terrorists of Al Nusrat and the Fake Non-Syrian Army will be gone so it will be put RED. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.50.93 (talk) 11:19, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

It should be put under truce for now and then changed to red when all whatever opposition forces have left. Rhocagil (talk) 19:16, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

When opposition troops withdraw from al-Wa'er should we remove the locations from the map. Al-Wa'er is a district of Homs city and therefore would be included with the icon for Homs. We don't show all the districts of Homs on the map therefore it is illogical to maintain this one. This suburb was only shown because of the rebel presence in the suburb, and prevented us from changing the city icon to contested.Prohibited Area (talk) 08:43, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

SAA near Kweiris airbase

All pro SAA maps are way more modest with SAA gains near Kweiris airport compared to this map. I know maps made by pro gov/opp are not reliable source but masdar is saying the same http://s3.img7.ir/00Ab3.jpg Aqulah captured, not even close to Deir Hafer http://www.almasdarnews.com/article/tiger-forces-expand-the-buffer-zone-around-the-kuweires-military-airport-rasm-al-abid-grain-silos-captured/Totholio (talk) 18:13, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Here maps from opposition sources herehere These maps show a completely different situation. So we must to comply the rules of editing according to which we cant use the maps as the reliable source for editing. Also this source here not support data from this map here Source clear said that Aqula and Aqula Farms, Tall Humaymah, under SAA also source said that the SAA is now within 5km from the western district of Deir Hafer.here 37.53.148.162 (talk) 18:40, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

You are linking 2 week old maps,ofcourse the masdar source is supporting the data, without Aqulah it's impossible to control anything towards the south specially Tell Ayyub Totholio (talk) 19:24, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

SOHR confirmed that the SAA advance in surroundings of the village Rasm Aboud and take control of the Rasm Aboud granaries.SOHR 37.53.148.162 (talk) 19:47, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Totholio But I think you are right about Tell Ayyub. 37.53.148.162 (talk) 19:51, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

SOHR report is from yesterday, I'm not saying SAA is on the back foot there, definitely not, just 1-2 villages not yet captured which is shown red on the map.Totholio (talk) 16:49, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Kanaker, Damascus

I believe that this town is, and always was, under rebel control since 2011. It was changed once back but i can't remember why. Since that, it is shown as under rebel control on every map published for that region. We can't copy maps. There are no clashes in this town, and that'y why every source is months old, for example on SOHR. Dunno what to say. DuckZz (talk) 23:02, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Only biased pro-opp. sources claimed that Kanaker under control by rebels. SOHR never said this. 46.200.247.232 (talk) 10:44, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

I thought reed in Al-Masdar (not sure) that there are actually a truce there. Rhocagil (talk) 18:37, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Anab

Regarding this edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Module%3ASyrian_Civil_War_detailed_map&type=revision&diff=693329332&oldid=693293217 I must inform that the guy who owns this archicivilians blog is extremely pro-salafi FSA/JaN and this is evident for instance in his twitter account. The village of Anab is under YPG control as stated in this ANHA repport (+with images) where a delegation from Afrin visits Anab and its surrounding Maryamain: http://hawarnews.com/%D9%88%D9%81%D8%AF-%D9%8A%D8%B2%D9%88%D8%B1-%D9%82%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%AA%D9%8A-%D9%85%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%85%D9%8A%D9%86-%D9%88%D8%A3%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%A8/ Roboskiye (talk) 08:26, 2 December 2015 (UTC) Roboskiye

Thank you for informing me. i did the edit based on a request on this talk page that no one objected on. I supposed no objections meen consenses. Helmy1453 (talk) 14:27, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Russian Airbases on Map

It will be very interesting to see the locations of russian airbases ( there will be 2 of them soon) and russian marine base. As a symbole, a ' Red Star'( the sigh of Russian Air Force) can be used. --212.75.52.4 (talk) 09:35, 2 December 2015 (UTC)MapMaker

ISIS advance against rebels in northern countryside of Aleppo

Pro-opp. news source Qasioun News said that the ISIS advance against rebels in northern countryside of Aleppo and capture the villages of Kafrah and Jarez.here Also other pro opp. source said that ISIS also capture the village of Al Bel.here SOHR also reported that ISIS capture villag Kafrah and other villages near with the village of Kufrah.SOHRSOHR 46.200.247.232 (talk) 10:37, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Homs - Al-Waer district

According to Al-Masdar, rebels and the Army managed to agree in leaving of rebels the district thus all Homs is under control of the Syrian goverment. The rebels have yet to leave the area, but there are no clashes. Oroszka (talk) 20:18, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

For now it should probably be marked as under truce. Rhocagil (talk) 18:39, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Change to cease fire if we no have more news will be change to contested again the next days --LogFTW (talk) 22:06, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Al-Waer is under truce for sometimes till evacuation is completed. Once evacuation is completed, it goes to red, see e.g. http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2015/Dec-02/325534-deal-reached-for-last-holdouts-to-exit-homs.ashx.Paolowalter (talk) 08:07, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Shaatat tribes(pro SAA) support SDF in Hasakah

Pro-opp. source (Local Coordination Committees of Syrıa) said that the today reinforcements arrived from the Shaatat tribes(loyal to Assad) for fight along with the SDF against ISIS in Shaddadi‬ to south of city Hasakah.herehere 46.201.223.212 (talk) 21:37, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Tiyas Airport has been renamed T4?

According to this, "Iran is preparing two squadrons of Sukhoi to engage the war in Syria. These will be stationed at the T4 Syrian military airport in Homs, very close to Palmyra (Tadmur), previously known as Tiyas."

Should the name be changed, then? Maybe with the old one kept in brackets? Esn (talk) 06:47, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Tell Dadin

SOHR said that SAA retake Tell Dadin.SOHR 46.201.223.212 (talk) 10:06, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

+ SAA and allies capture Jbel al-Arbin and Tel al-Bakkarah. --212.75.52.4 (talk) 10:44, 3 December 2015 (UTC)MapMaker