Talk:USS Enterprise (NCC-1701)

Merge with Starship Enterprise?

Shouldn't this be merged with starship enterprise ? I don't know the proper protocols for going about this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.207.51.116 (talk • contribs)

I agree. That would make for a more comprehensive read, and could clear up certain dubious claims in this article, such as the cultural impact of the NCC-1701 specifically, and that "The USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) is the central starship in the fictional Star Trek universe, depicted in 6 network television series, 12 feature films" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.45.54.3 (talk) 17:54, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

DS9 Episode

Shoulden't that be listed or noted as the last appearence?

Warp 7?

I curious how come the infobox says the NCC-1701 has a maximum speed of Warp 7 when it was shown going Warp 8 and IIRC Warp 9 in some episodes? Granted these were extreme cases and Scotty complained a lot, but the show pretty much established that the 1701 could go past Warp 7 (especially after the TMP refit). Maybe "cruising speed" might be a more accurate term? 23skidoo 21:10, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

According to the Star Trek Technical Manual by Michael and Denise Okuda, the warp factor scale was redefined at some point, making the earlier warp factor scale used in the original series obsolete. So what used to be Warp 9, was probably downgraded to Warp 7, with Warp 10 as the unachievable warp factor. In other words, according to the 24th century scale, a ship could go Warp 9.99999999999+ and never reach Warp 10. This seems to resemble the modern real life thoery that nothing can go the speed of light, but can reach 99.9999999+ percent of it. Mirlin 03:26, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Azimov decided that if a starship could miniaturize and lose mass, it could indeed reach light speed. See his entire library of books for various ships that use that technique.

Wow. Various ships actually use that technique. Fancy!  :) 86.129.4.198 (talk) 03:37, 18 July 2010 (UTC)Al

The ship goes Warp 11 in S02E03 (The Changeling), thanks to the changes made by Nomad. Check the 38m mark of the episode. 99.12.148.43 (talk) 16:47, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Age

Is it possible the "20 years old" is a reference to the time on her last major refit? I've always thought the "STTMP" Enterprise had undergone a Starfleet equivalent of FRAM (Fleet Rehabilitation and Modification) to extend her useful life, when she was nearing the end of her hull lifetime. Maybe she's 20 years past the expected max? In any case, it's clear she's to be retired to free up the name for the new ship; is it possible Kirk misunderstood (and wasn't told the truth, to preserve surprise)? --trekphiler, 16/11/05

And like the Okudas stated in their text commentary of ST3, it is a rather silly statement, as many of the current space shuttles are easily older than 20 years. Surely Starfleet's ships would be more long-lived than that? 84.250.41.125 11:03, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Answer to both: a> In real life, multiple writers means discontinuity. Simply put: The writers of Search didn't know about Pike, and a mistake was made. Ignore it. The ship is either 40+ years old or is 20 (refit) + 20 (original keel laid) or the ship is 20 years old. It's fiction, get over it. b> NASA's shuttles are not immortal and while 2 were lost, NO real life space ship has ever been in combat. Kirk's Enterprise fought a planet eating Doomsday Device. real life warships can only take so much use before they're scrapped, we have to assume the same for starships. c> the name. Viewers new to Trek make the mistake of assuming the writers knew what they were doing. They didn't. They made it up as they went, daily. Read any of the books. Originally, the crew were given Excelsior, but that didn't go over with fans, and the Enterprise A was created, at the last minute!. Seriously, the general public knew about the whales but only the die hard "fan-spies" knew about the ship (and Spock in Wrath). Again, read the behind the scenes books.

Indeed, read the Making of Star Trek authorized by Gene Roddenberry (he participated in the book!). The book clearly states that by the time of the original series Enterprise and her sister ships were already 40 years old. If the Pike Enterprise had been switched with a brand new one after the ship's damage in "Where No Man Has Gone Before", Kirk's Enterprise would be older than 17 years by the time of Star Trek III. Frank Bitterhof (talk) 22:05, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Class

Wasn't Enterprise Constellation -class? --trekphiler, 16/11/05

No. The USS Stargazer was constellation class. Morwen - Talk 14:57, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

To make matters more confusing, the TOS novel by Vonda McIntire, Enterprise: The First Adventure erroneously refers to the 1701 as Constellation class. But Constitution class was established sometime in the first season, I think. 23skidoo 15:43, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes, in fact several novels incorrectly refer to NCC-1701 as Constellation class but Star Trek canon consistently insists that this was a Constitution class starship. Mirlin 03:22, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I would agree with it being Constitution class. Consider the meaning behind the class 'Constitution.' Star Trek:TOS had a lot of Americanized ideals (equality, diversity, liberty, and justice to name a few). In fact there was a specific episode where an alien government was based on the United States, and it was even mentioned by name. So, I always saw the name of the Enterprise's class as being a reference to the themes in the show. What does everyone else think? Dannery4 18:27, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

NCC should stand for "Not Constitution Class". The Matt Jefferies interview (Star Trek Sketchbook) and original sketch (Enterprise the very first in the series: 17-01) plus the statements in The Making of Star Trek by Bob Justman and Gene Roddenberry which say "Enterprise-class" should have made it abundantly clear that USS Enterprise and her sister ships had always been "Enterprise Class" if "Starship Class" isn't sufficient. The whole "Constitution Class" business started because the "star ship status" chart in "Court-Martial" showed an "NCC 1700" (read 17-00!) which was the furthest one from being "complete" (probably just being built then - no name and no final number). Curiously, 6 months after the episode had been aired, the producers finally sat down to think about about names for the 12 starships - and Constitution wasn't even one of them! Somebody who wasn't aware of the show's producers and production designer intentions assumed that "NCC 1700" should be the first ship and that probably Constitution sounded like a good name. Frank Bitterhof (talk) 22:19, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

USS vs. U.S.S.

It should be noted that the topic of the article is not right. All UFP starships are designated "U.S.S.", not "USS". This system has been in use very consistently, check out the insignia and official and canon source material. 62.78.201.168 13:32, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Saucer Separation

Yesterday, I added 'In fanon' to the item about saucer separation because the source mentioned was a novel, and novels are not canon. I have since discovered that saucer separation was mentioned in the episode The Apple. I removed the comment about fanon and replaced the link to the novel with one to the episode. Apofisu 14:40, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Picture

Where did the first pic on this page go. Is my computer messing up or is the link dead hence no image?

It should be noted that the first pic on the Constitution class page is also missing —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.66.212.175 (talk) 20:40, 3 January 2007 (UTC).

Deletion log says it was deleted. thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 20:43, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Enterprise cameos in Galactica

The reuse of the shot as stock footage for the series has led to the Enterprise appearing in many Galactica episodes.
Besides the mini-series... In which episodes does it appear? 201.51.50.142 04:10, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Refit photo

Does anyone else think there should be a proper photo of the Refit version, as opposed to the photo of a model/statue/thing? 84.250.41.125 10:51, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Pike: 1st & 2nd captain??

Anyone notice that Pike is mentioned as the 1st AND 2nd captain of the Enterprise?Dannery4 19:01, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

VSS Enterprise

I added a mention of the Virgin Galactic VSS Enterprise under Cultural Influence. It seemed appropriate considering there is also the mention of the Space Shuttle. The wasd man 14:06, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Redesigned USS Enterprise from the 2007 Ships of the Line Calendar.

I'm wondering if the reworked USS Enterprise designed by Gabriel Koerner should be in here. It was featured in the 2007 Star Trek Ships of the Line calendar. He also made a short video clip with it flying.

Revised Enterprise Picture —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trekky0623 (talk • contribs) 00:55, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Star Trek film

As mentioned above (for DS9), should the first/last appearance be adjusted in line with the ship appearing in the new JJ Abrams Star Trek (film)? TubularWorld (talk) 17:36, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

size of the model

The article says the movie miniature is 8 feet long or 152 centimeters. It's wrong, 8 feet equals 243 cm. I cannot correct this now, can anyone do this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.100.193.15 (talk) 21:30, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Layout of this article

Can I start a discussion on the focus and layout of this article?

At the moment there is a *lot* of detail about the shooting models and modifications thereof, and far less about the ship's history on screen and associated mythology. Surely for a general Wikipedia article, i.e. one that will be where the man in the street goes for info on the "Starship Enterprise", we should focus more on the ship's role in the show, the basics of its mission, a little bit on its internal layout and much more on where it has had an impact in the real world?

This page is likely one of the most frequently-searched Star Trek pages on Wikipedia, I just think it needs to work more to reach out to a broader audience's needs for info.

Oceanhopper (talk) 20:30, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Generally, no, this article shouldn't focus on the ship's layout. Its role in the show as a dramatic device/character in and of itself and the *basics* (i.e. a few sentences) of its mission would be appropriate. See WP:WAF. Save the in-universe perspectives and minutiae for Memory Alpha. --EEMIV (talk) 05:27, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I think the current obsessing over the fate of and tweaks to the studio model are totally trivial and should not be here. I also see that all my revisions - which I believed I had framed quite objectively - have been reversed in full with no supporting argument. Why? e.g the Orbiter Enterpise was called Constitution originally, NOT Discovery, and yet this has been reverted to the incorrect data. OK, I dont have a specific source added to support some of the new stuff, but the version you have replaced it with is euqlly unsuppoted by citations. Isn't it better to at least get the facts right and then find sources, rather than continue with an incorrect version? Oceanhopper (talk) 07:09, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Star Trek IV (4)

The infobox is incorrect! The last appearance of the ship was in Star Trek IV (4)! It was a rebuilt version, but the same ship, so I think someone should look into that.24.207.94.130 (talk) 16:11, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

The ship in Star Trek IV is not NCC-1701 as that vessel is destroyed by the self destruct sequence over the Genesis Planet.. It is another Constitution class that was either built new or renamed. Roddenberry alluded to the possibility that it was the USS Yorktown. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.223.72.153 (talk) 15:57, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Logically I'm assuming the first person is referring to the flashback of the Enterprise in ST IV ... hence it is the last time until the 2009 movie that this incarnation is seen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.221.51.117 (talk) 02:18, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Latest appearance

User:Montana Defender contends the ship in the 2009 Star Trek film is "NOT the same ship" as the NCC-1701 from TOS+. Although, yes, it's a reimagined vessel and aesthetically different, it is as much the "same" ship as the characters who crew it. A separate infobox for different iterations of the ship would be unwieldy; I'm open to the idea of leaving the fields blank, though. What do the rest of y'all think? --EEMIV (talk) 21:40, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Enterprise from the alternate reality is not the same ship, having same-ish crew doesn't matter. Also it isn't only aesthetically different different, but it also has vastly different capabilities and dimensions (it's huge compared to original Enterprise), so it isn't "reimagined vessel", but entirely new one. Only thing that it has same as the original Enterprise is the name and the registry. --antiXt (talk) 09:59, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

While Abrams & Crew keep claiming the new ship is over 2400 feet long the "reality" precludes this. They go to some effort to show us the exterior of the bridge "window/viewscreen" and the docking port on the saucer strut and the shuttle bay(in two incosistent dimensions). We know these exact dimensions and thus we can know the almost exact dimensions of the Enterprise. She's a bit larger than the TOS ship. Maybe even a touch bigger than the TMP refit. A thousand feet, that's it. ILM even admitted that, regarding the inconsistency of the shuttle scene/number of shuttles, they "made her whatever size they needed for a scene". Since then they have somewhat standardized their stories but they can't change the known sizes of objects they showed in detail. As such, between what Abrams says, what ILM has contradicted itself on and the physical "reality" of known areas of the ship any mention of size is probably best left alone. It just doesn't all add up and even if someone wants to say "well Abrams said so so that's it" no, it isn't. You can't make a 10' tall window 25' tall simply by repeating "it is it is it is it is" over and over and over again...

Chimera(too lazy to try and remember my PW and log in right now) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.62.112.54 (talk) 05:25, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

And what does alternate reality Enterprise's size exactly have to do with it being or not being the same ship as NCC-1701 from the universe in which rest of the franchise is being set? --antiXt (talk) 12:13, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

I was replying to your specific statement "(it's huge compared to original Enterprise)" so you'll have to answer your own question since you made the issue. I was simply noting this claim is incorrect, or at least very, very much in dispute. OTOH it is established that construction of the new Constitution Class starships is delayed by events including(but perhaps not limited to) the events surrounding the Kelvin so it's really an issue of semantics. The ship was clearly intended to be the original Enterprise as would be the case in a parallel universe until something altered important events. FMChimera (talk) 15:03, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

The DAICON III opening in Cultural_impact

Among the other "fleeting" references in Cultural_impact, why is the DAICON one of particular note?
It was made from 1980 to 1981 in Japan, so you have a foreign country that is aware of Star Trek and deems it important enough to add it to an amateur production.
It is, as best as I can tell, the ONLY non Japanese show referred to in the DAICON III opening (maybe a Gerry Anderson ref, hard to see).
The Japanese shows refer include Gundam, Starblazers (aka Space battleship Argo), Godzilla.
The creators of the DAICON short went on to form GAINAX, who made Evangelion, which has another ref in list.
Oh, and one can think it is prophetic that it depicts the Enterprise being blown up 3 years before it happened in in ST III
Cheers!--Flightsoffancy (talk) 03:00, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

EEMIV, it shocked me that rather then discuss my entry, you willy-nilly remove it again, AND a few other "fleeting" entry's so there is no supporting case for my entry. I thought it over for a couple of days before I put everything back.
The most surprising thing is you removed the VSS Enterprise reference. If you did that, might as well remove the Space Shuttle ref too.
Cultural impact is the title of the section, and when another show deliberately puts in references to Star Trek, it clearly shows how much ST plays in the minds of the creators. The DAICON III opener is well documented, the video is on YouTube, anyone can see and read it, and it is not Original Research, and it is NOT a fleeting image when it has equal time with all of the other ships portrayed in that fast paced animated short.--Flightsoffancy (talk) 09:05, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Some more sources. Here is a page on Gainax detailing the shorts, Here is one focusing on the shorts, and the FULL version of Daikon 3 (not the intro version), See 3:54, Enterprise (first nacelle version too! Intro is later nacelle type)., and to round off here is another review for JPhile.--Flightsoffancy (talk) 02:41, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Trivial cultural nonsense

The items below are in the "cultural impact" section. I've added comments on some of them, and added notes about inclination to remove several as unreferenced and trivial, fleeting appearances.

• Construction on the first Space Shuttle began on June 4, 1974. Designated OV-101, it was originally planned to be named Constitution. However, a write-in campaign caused it to be renamed Enterprise.
  • Cited
• According to The Making of Star Trek, by Stephen Whitfield and Gene Roddenberry, the bridge design of the NCC-1701 was once considered for use by the real-life United States Navy, because of the efficiency of its style and layout.
  • Cited
• About 50 seconds into the 1981 DAICON III Opening Animation there is a brief scene of the Enterprise being destroyed (additional Star Trek references occur in the follow up DAICON IV opening).
  • Absolutely irrelevant. A few seconds of clip show the producers' ability to splice footage. Please provide a citation that the Enterprise's appearance in Daicon actually has been observed and commented-upon by third-party sources; otherwise, this is trivial.
• The original series-era Enterprise appears on a commemorative stamp released by the United States Postal Service.
  • Clear impact, same as the space shuttle, but I couldn't find a source.
• Virgin Galactic named its first commercial spaceship the VSS Enterprise in honor of the Star Trek vessel.
  • Clearly significant -- my earlier removal was an error -- and cited.
• Vulcan, Alberta created a 31-foot model starship inspired by Star Trek's Enterprise.
  • Cited.
• In the anime Gunsmith Cats, in episode 2, there is a truck with the license plate NC1701.
  • Utter trivia. Production designers across innumerable series make gag allusions to characters, locations, catch-phrases and, yes, starship registry numbers. Please provide a citation to substantiate a claim that this bit of trivia has been the topic of some sort of grown-up third-party commentary, otherwise it's merely fanboy trivia.
• In the TV series Heroes, when George Takei makes a cameo appearance, his character's car has the license plate NCC-1701.
  • Same as above.
• William Shatner's character Denny Crane, in the legal dramedy Boston Legal references being "multi-talented" because he once "captained his very own spaceship," referring to the Enterprise.
  • Complete OR that this line is an allusion to Star Trek.
• In the "Rebuild of Evangelion" films, Shinji Ikari's NERV id is NCC1701A.
  • Ditto two above.

The ones I've placed in bold I plan to delete ~9 Aug if the claims that these indicate cultural impact are not substantiated by reliable third-party sources. If you disagree with their deletion yet fail to meet WP:BURDEN by adding sources, third-opinions are thattaway and will surely agree with removing that seemingly insignificant supposition and trivia. --EEMIV (talk) 02:51, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

*About 50 seconds into the 1981 DAICON III Opening Animation there is a brief scene of the Enterprise being destroyed (additional Star Trek references occur in the follow up DAICON IV opening). Absolutely irrelevant. A few seconds of clip show the producers' ability to splice footage. Please provide a citation that the Enterprise's appearance in Daicon actually has been observed and commented-upon by third-party sources; otherwise, this is trivial.

I provided 3 different 3ed party reviews on the Internet that specifically point out the Enterprise from Star Trek, in the PREVIOUS section entry, just above yours. I also linked the FULL DAICON III short (not the intro version at the beginning of DAICON IV short) and 3:54 into that one, for a few seconds, is an unmistakable USS Enterprise.
Context of the shorts is the inclusion of large array of Sci-Fi and Fantasy topics, including Star Wars, Godzilla, Gundam, Gamara, etc, and that is the key. By including Star Trek a la Enterprise the produces recognize the impact or importance of the series to their lives.
The cultural impact of ST to the world is further strengthened by being a non-English country, Japan.
It is the context of the appearance to the entire short and the location that makes this relevant.

As to the others, I agree generally with you. They are just there numbers or comments disjointed from any real significance to either show (ST or one the ref is in). Ideally all of those could be summarized into a one sentence comment like "NCC1701 has appeared in Heros, Gunsmith Cats, and Evangelion" only to show the pervasive reach of ST is with other artist.

You have provided verifiability that the video exists but not provided any citations to third-party commentators that this is evidence of the Enterprise having any sort of cultural impact, i.e. articulating that the producers did anything other than pick some arbitrary footage to fill time. (To say nothing of these videos themselves being a barely notable work by a bunch of barely notable artists.) Parsing the sources you've provided: projectharuhi mentions the article's subject one, in a passing list verifying but not commenting on the article topic; tripatlas.com does not mention the article topic at all; jphile is a self-published, non-reliable source, so whatever it says is pretty much irrelevant. --EEMIV (talk) 03:45, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

You completely miss the fundamental point of that video, that it is itself a reflection of the cultural impact of sci-fi and fantasy in Japan! in short, what you seeks is right in front of you. Also, those barely notable work by a bunch of barely notable artists went on to create some very notable works under the studio name of Gainax. For proof that ST was an influence in Japan prior to 1980, this page has dates, and am looking for Japanese publications that mention it. (aside, could not continue debate until now due to life issues.) --Flightsoffancy (talk) 23:39, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Alternate reality section: does not discuss the ship, but instead the plot line of the movie - not relevent

This should describe the ship, the diffrences and specs ect... not the plot line of the moive. this article is about the ship, not the movie, so why are we walked through the plot line? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.53.180.132 (talk) 03:14, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Internal arrangements?

Was it ever revealed where the different sets of the original series, apart from the bridge which is obviously in the top dome, were supposed to be located inside the Enterprise's hulk? If so, it might make sense to add this. -- 217.190.216.15 (talk) 14:31, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

There might've been some cutaways or somesuch, but unless coupled with development commentary/information from the designers and producers, would read as unnecessary in-universe trivia/cruft for inclusion here; Memory Alpha would be a better repository for a straight-up deck-by-deck/internal arrangement plan. --EEMIV (talk) 14:56, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Potential source

I bookmarked this back in February . . . and haven't done anything with it. Maybe someone else who keeps an eye on this article can peruse it for appropriate information? --EEMIV (talk) 23:11, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Death of Richard Datin, Original Fabricator of Star Trek Enterprise Model

I'm not sure where to put this. My Stepmother is Richard Datin's daughter. Richard Datin passed away from complications of Alzehimer's on Monday Jan 24, 2011 www.startrekman.us His Obituary is at colin.org/RichardDatin I noticed that there is a dead link to a possible Wikipedia page for him. Perhaps a summary from this Obituary and the details at Memory Alpha can be forged into a real Wikipedia page for him at some point? I don't have the markup skills.

Input requested

I've posed a few questions at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Star_Trek#Starship_article_ruminations, and I'd appreciate feedback from anyone who has this article watchlisted. Thanks! --EEMIV (talk) 16:03, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Pato (Patricio) Guzman and the Enterprise Design

I have run into several references while researching the production of Star Trek to a Chilean, Pato (presumably "Patricio") Guzman's very significant role in the design of the original Enterprise for the pilot (see for example Whitfield and Roddenberry, The Making of Star Trek 78-86). I am still researching this, but think we should consider including at least a mention of Guzman in the article. In fact, he seems to have actually been Jeffries' boss, at least at first. And another reference: [http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Pato_Guzman Patricio Guzman. Thoughts? --HullIntegrity (talk) 20:24, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

2009 Enterprise - 725m?

This figure is from where, may I ask? it's from an article that doesn't provide any other sources aside from a drawing. At least 6 different figures have been given, ranging from 295 metres to 1200 metres.

Are there other sources that we can use? Perhaps the Art of Star Trek book can be used, or perhaps when the Star Trek Starships collection issue comes out, that could be used to back the figure up? ggctuk (2005) (talk) 20:38, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Model dimension units

Any reason why the metric units used in the description of the models are "dm" - decimetres? The dm is not very widely used. e.g. 9 dm would better be represented as 0.9 m which would be more universally and easily understood. Simon Grant (talk) 02:57, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

2009 Re-imagining

A plot summary in this section is almost completely irrelevant to the ship itself and should be removed. This is a page about the ship, not the show. Sm5574 (talk) 21:53, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Reboot Enterprise (Abramsverse) also the subject of this article?

Since there is a section on the 2009 reboot version of the NCC-1701 Enterprise (the alt-universe version seen in 2009 Star Trek, Into Darkness, Beyond) in this article, shouldn't we add a screen capture of that ship to the header to accompany the picture of the prime-universe version? Helmut von Moltke (talk) 00:28, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Doors / Hatches

Haven't seen this mentioned here so ... on the original Enterprise, one of the features that got a lot of attention was the doors. (Proper term on a ship would be "hatches" ?) They had no handles or buttons; as a person walked toward them they opened automatically, then shut after s/he passed through. They were split, with the two halves simultaneously opening sideways with a quiet 'whoosh' noise. Of course we were all "How do they do that ? I want those !"

They didn't. Behind the bulkheads on the set were two people, manually opening and closing the hatches as the actors would approach and pass through. I believe the gimmick was revealed in TV Guide so pretty sure I can't locate the reference.

This was revealed along with the tidbit that those skin-tight (by 1966 standards) uniforms were sewn together on the actors each day :-) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.22.142.82 (talk) 14:29, 9 September 2016 (UTC)