Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests

Archives
January 2004 – October 2004 October 2004 – January 2005 January 2005 – April 2005 April 2005 – June 2005 June 2005 – July 2005 June 2005 – July 2005 July 2005 – September 2005 September 2005 – October 2005 November 2005 – December 2005 December 2005 – January 2006 January 2006 – February 2006 February 2006 – March 2006 March 2006 – April 2006 April 2006 – June 2006

ArbCom Case naming

Should we discourage names of cases that consist entirely of a user's username? These case names sound like personal attacks. Instead of case names like "MONGO", we should have case names like "Rootology v. MONGO". The former makes it look like MONGO did something wrong, while the latter looks like a dispute between Rootology and MONGO. In the "MONGO" case, it looks like one of those rare cases where the person the case bringing the case is the guilty party, and that the defendant is actually not guilty of not much or maybe completely innocent or justified in his actions. In cases where one or more groups are involved, it seems that a name like "Regarding the Bogdanov Affair" would be appropriate. Jesse Viviano 03:08, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

The case names seem immaterial. Everyone should be able to realize that the names have little to do with whether the named party has been problematic or not. An X v. Y format would be bad because it would make them seem even closer to court cases and it is already hard enough to get into users heads that that isn't what the ArbCom is for. JoshuaZ 03:33, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I've thought about this issue for awhile myself (which probably suggests that I need to get off this type of page and start writing more articles), partly because it has real world analogs in various legal systems and partly becuse I had the same reaction that Jesse Viviano did.

I agree with Jesse Viviano that a case name that is simply the username seems accusatory against the user, particularly where, as in the MONGO case, the epynomous user turns out not to be the subject of any sanctions. (If enacted as written, any user sanctioned for an improper link to an attack site will have his or her block recorded on Log-of-Blocks-and-Bans:MONGO, although MONGO is less likely than any other user to insert such a link. But I think there were good reasons to avoid a case called "Encyclopedia Dramatica.")

I think the ArbCom and Clerks and most editors filing cases are sensitive to this issue and where possible, try to title the cases with the name of an article or an issue rather than a username where possible, e.g. "New Anti-Semitism" or "Honda S2000." On the other hand, sometimes a case really is about one particular user's conduct. The idea of adversary casenames (A v. B) is bad for the reasons suggested by JoshuaZ, and for the additional reason that many disputes involve far more than two parties or sides. Unless we want to move to a numerical system (e.g., "Case No. 2006-5"), the current arrangement is probably as good as it gets. Newyorkbrad 17:42, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Addendum: Even where an individual user's conduct is at issue, it can be possible to come up with a good case-name that is more than just a username, e.g., when Cyde filed a complaint about Splash's removal of protection from a mainpage article, while expressing no other concerns about Splash, he rightly captioned the case "Splash's Unsemiprotects" rather than "Splash." There is also a trade-off with brevity; a case could be called "Alleged Pattern of Personal Attacks by User:Foo" or "Complaint against Foo" or just "Foo." I suppose that if the focus is really on Foo, then it's going to be called the Foo case. Newyorkbrad 19:28, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Generally, cases revolve about a single editor, and are given that name, or if not, then a single article. "X v. Y" formulations are not good, in my view, because it emphasizes an adversarial nature that is not intended to be present in actual aritration: there aren't winners or losers, there's just a decision that is intended to benefit the encyclopedia. Sometimes "X and Y" is appropriate, but usually it becomes cumbersome, and most cases with more than one article will get an article/topic name if possible. Perhaps "MONGO" would have been better named "Encyclopaedia Dramatica," but the difference is really immaterial to the case itself. It's supposed to denote subject matter, not who did something wrong. Dmcdevit·t 06:23, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. Note, if you will, that we used (a very long time ago) to use such a convention, but ditched it very rapidly. If you wish, I suppose we could revert, and use the nomenclature Jimmy vs. <foo>. :-)

James F. (talk) 19:19, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

There are certainly circumstances where a single editor, or even an article, doesn't quite encapsulate things. I submitted "Giano, et. al." which was shorted to "Giano." It's intent was to examine events following Carnildo's readminning, and discussions across RFA, BN, AN and various talk pages that got quite out of hand. Giano just happened to be the first person (I know of) blocked in the kerfluffle, so much of the discussion revolved around him. I certainly don't see it as me vs. him, in fact my hope is that arbitration will result in everyone on the same side again and not "vs." anyone else. Honestly, I can't think of a more neutral name for this case...so if a standard is considered, could I recommend a case numbering system? Something detached from the case itself? Something like, "ARB-1138". Single user cases would, in all likelyhood, still be referred to by a users name, but a detached numbering system could help take the sting off things. --InkSplotch 18:17, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I thought about this issue in the context of this case after User:Bunchofgrapes and several others opined that "Giano et al." (much less "Giano") was not the appropriate case name here. I was reminded of the form used by the World Court, which uses descriptive rather than contentious primary names for the cases (e.g., Case Concerning Sovereignty over Eastern Greenland). But I couldn't come up with a suitable short form for this one in time; perhaps Case Concerning Certain Users' Comments Following Carmildo's Resysopping or more pejoratively ... well, I won't type the more pejorativelys. I do think it could have at least kept the "et al.," but I guess no harm done really. Newyorkbrad 23:59, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

The Gwernol case

This case should be closed immediately as nonsense. The editor contacted the unblock mailing list, claiming he has a right to post his opinions here because Wikipedia is a "quasi-governmental entity". When I asked him where he got that idea, he did not reply. Law school graduate, huh? User:Zoe|(talk) 18:09, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm a tad confused by the existence of the case as well - it's blatantly obvious the user was rightfully blocked. Cowman109^Talk 00:02, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, if Tony were still a clerk he probably would have whacked it right away. Our new clerks are probably waiting for word from the arbitrators. Thatcher131 00:22, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I half think 71 is just trolling, because I don't see how he (and even moreso Saatana) can possibly think they have a case. If every user on the receiving end of a textbook case of a rightful block appealed it to the Arbcom there would be no time for anything productive at all. PurplePlatypus 18:45, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Concur with Thatcher131. The solution is for the arbitrators to quickly reject a "case" of this nature. Of course it's understandable that the arbitrators may be focused on other matters just now. Newyorkbrad 19:53, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

When I saw this being edited last night, the only reason I didn't just delete it as trolling is that Gwernol had bothered to write up a response. IMO the "case" should be thrown out as trolling, and Gwernol congratulated for exemplary adminning. Antandrus (talk) 19:56, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't see any reason to go that far, but I agree that all Gwernol did was correctly do his job, and it wouldn't hurt for one or more members of the Arbcom to affirm that in the process of throwing that complaint out on its proverbial ass. PurplePlatypus 05:04, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

(deindenting) Sorry if I've caused extra work by responding: it was my intention to clarify matters rather than to drag them out. I'd personally rather see a clear ruling on this, otherwise I fear an endless stream of accusations of a "cover up" from the user on the dynamic IP. Of course, it may well be that an Arbcom ruling against them would end up in the same place, but at least we'll have tried. However given the more important issues of the moment I'd entirely understand if this wasn't possible. Gwernol 17:52, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Highways poll concluded

The WP:SRNC poll has concluded (with the exception of one state, and this minor dispute has nothing to do with article name). Therefore, mass page moves pursuant to WP:USSH will be taking place. Please do not block any of these users, as these moves are not controversial. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 01:18, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

• Rschen7754
• TwinsMetsFan
• Poccil
• Northenglish
• Jeff02
• Pedriana
• Master son
• Seicer
• Xxpor
• Physicq210
• Vegaswikian
• Gooday.1 - added to list late

Query

I hate to be a bother, but how long does it normally take for Arbitration to be decided as a course, and how long does it take once started? I don't mind waiting, as, happily, there's been more-or-less of an agreement to put the main point of contention on hold until the arbitrators meet, so good things have happened out of it, but it'd be nice to know a very rough schedule. Adam Cuerden ^talk 03:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Most cases are completed in 6-8 weeks, with a few finished in a month. FloNight 21:08, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Template for ArbCom

This page has been protected because of a request for arbitration concerning this article. The page has been preserved in this state for evidence purposes. It will remain protected until the end of the arbitration case.

This is a proposed template for use in cases where an article in mainspace is the subject of an ArbCom case; what do people think of it?? --Gold-Horn 16:42, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Nah. Just because an article is named in a case doesn't mean other people can't edit responsibly, and articles should only be locked to prevent ongoing disruption, for which {{sprotected}} and {{protected}} work just fine. Besides, some cases take 2-3 months to resolve, we don't want to leave an article protected for that long. Thatcher131 16:55, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

The history will have a version of the article with the needed evidence. No need to preserve it by protection. --FloNight 17:10, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

May be worth noting that the user who proposed this has been indefblocked as a sockpuppet. Ral315 (talk) 00:14, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Statement replies

Just wondering what the policy is regarding "Involved parties" statements: are short replies allowed, tolerated, prohibited? Obviously we don't want to turn them into a debate, but for example, it might be useful to ask for examples and sources to backup a statement? --Iantresman 21:32, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

You can add questions or comments to your own section. Sometimes people use a bold label like Question for John or Reply to Jane. Just don't edit in the other folk's sections. Thatcher131 21:39, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Archiving of rejected cases

The "archives" link at the bottom of the RfAr page correctly states that the archives of rejected requests for arbitration are "extremely sparse, selective, and unofficial." In many cases, there may indeed be little use to archiving a frivolous request that is summarily rejected. However, in some instances, requests are rejected either for other reasons -- because the arbitrators believe mediation should be tried first, or because the problem user has been community banned, or for some other reason. Sometimes when issues recur it would be useful to have these discussions available to link to easily. It is always possible to dig them up by going through the page history, but that can be very time-consuming. May I ask the Clerks to please consider archiving rejected cases with significant discussion a bit more often than they currently do. Thank you for your consideration. Newyorkbrad 21:57, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Since all it is is a name and a diff link, I see no reason you couldn't do it yourself. Thatcher131 01:04, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, the easiest time to do it is right when the rejected case is moved off the RfAr page, when the Clerk has the text in his/her browser (and the case in his/her mind) anyway. But recognizing that the Clerks are busy, unless I see any objections from an arbitrator or arb-clerk here within the next couple of days, I will take T131 up on his suggestion. Is there anything special I should know about how the templates work? Newyorkbrad 01:07, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

All the rejected archive is is a list of names and a link to the edit in the page history just before it was blanked. Looking at the last 500 edits, I found these just by ctrl-F searching for "reject" or "remove":

[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8]

There's no separate pages or subpages of archives, just the diffs. Thatcher131 01:18, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. I will do some of this archiving, though it may have to wait till the weekend. Newyorkbrad 01:21, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Can't find the template

I need to get the template to put up my RfA. Could somebody do it and explain it to me?--GreekWarrior 01:08, 4 October 2006 (UTC)