Talk:United Ireland

The state of Northern Ireland

There is a tendency on pages like these to change "the state of Northern Ireland" to something else, on the grounds that Northern Ireland is not a sovereign state. The latest attempt is by EncyclopaediaNilssonia with this edit. This ignores the fact that Northern Ireland – especially between 1921 and 1972 – is almost universally referred to as a state. Do a Google Books search for "state of northern ireland", "northern ireland state", "northern irish state" and "northern state" ireland. Don't look at the "About 6,960 results" under the search box; just scroll through the results and you'll see that each search returns at least 50–60 good quality books referring to Northern Ireland as a state. By contrast, search for "jurisdiction of Northern Ireland": I found a total of four books, all of them fairly esoteric, where that phrase actually appears. "State" should be used until somebody can show that the balance of reliable sources don't use it. Scolaire (talk) 14:27, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

You cite the particular case of 1921 - 1972 to support your case, yet the term 'state' is used interchangeably with 'province' and 'jurisdiction' throughout this period, with the latter two continuing to be in use. I used the term 'jurisdiction' as it is the least partial to either side of the debate. We long past 1972, so you have ignored the passage of time and end of the Government of Ireland Act 1920 that established Northern Ireland as a self-governing 'state'. As it is no longer in force, and the Good Friday Agreement, which repealed the Act, does not refer to Northern Ireland as a 'state', it is improper to refer to it as such. Further, you inexplicably removed an edit I made to specify a United Ireland 'under the Republic'. Why? EncyclopaediaNilssonia (talk) 13:59, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Because, as I said, unionists oppose unification full stop. They wouldn't support unification as a federal state or as a monarchy any more than they would support unification "under the Republic". The sentence on the state of Northern Ireland which you edited, and I reverted, was in the particular context of 1921, therefore the term is the appropriate, recognised and common term. If you look at the Google Books results you will see that authors didn't stop using the term after the Good Friday Agreement. Scolaire (talk) 14:34, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

I don't think that's strictly true. Unionists pre-1921 used to be all in favour of a united Ireland, and I'm sure they would be again were Ireland to rejoin the UK. They oppose being part of an independent Irish republic, not a united Ireland per se. — Jon C.^ॐ 14:28, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

I didn't say a reunited UK, I said a united Ireland as a monarchy or a federal state. They oppose being part of an independent Ireland, regardless of its constitution. Unless you have reliable sources that say otherwise, of course. Scolaire (talk) 15:40, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Agree with Scolaire's argument against EncyclopaediaNilssonia's edit. Also where in the Good Friday Agreement is the repeal of the Government of Ireland Act 1920? I'm curious. Maybe the subsequent Northern Ireland Act 1998 which repealed only parts of it not the whole thing? Mabuska ^(talk) 23:28, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Assembly seats chart (under Public opinion)

Two big problems with this chart:

1. Unsourced, presumably OR. The designations are unexplained and may be contestable, e.g. the only Assembly member elected in 2017 without a formal position on the constitutional question is probably the one from People Before Profit.
2. Most importantly, not a meaningful measure of public opinion on reunification: seats ≠ votes and votes in a regular election ≠ votes in a border poll.

Recommend deletion. 82.21.168.53 (talk) 12:59, 4 November 2017 (UTC)