Talk:Sultanate of Mogadishu

Ibn Battuta-> Mogadishu visit

Could you give me a source you trust that describes Battuta's visit to Mogadishu entirely? Thanks, Awale-Abdi (talk) 17:24, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Can you till me what is going on? Give yours perspective and Midday will give his. AcidSnow (talk) 17:29, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

User:Awale-Abdi & User:AcidSnow: This is a bit of a non-sequitur, but I recommend David D. Laitin & Said Sheikh Samatar's book. Middayexpress (talk) 20:09, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks but that's not what I meant. I want to understand what this dispute is about. AcidSnow (talk) 20:31, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Awale-Abdi appears to be asking above for a link I trust that describes Batutta's visit to Mogadishu entirely, though I'm not sure why. As you're aware, Batutta visit is already described on the Mogadishu page. Middayexpress (talk) 21:32, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Mogadishu

Do you want to continue the discussion on the Sultanate of Mogadishu here? If not, then I will go work on other sections such as the World War II. Do you know which division of British troops captured Mogadishu in 1941? AcidSnow (talk) 18:10, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

AcidSnow, I believe the Kharijites were shortly after hijira (~694). The Fakr ad-Din dynasty, however, was the first Muslim ruling house of the Sultanate. Best regards Middayexpress (talk) 18:43, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Ok, now that this event did occur we must now look to see why they came. As you may now, some sources say that Mogadishu and other cites revolted in 805/15 (don't remember exactly). As for the British Troops, I have found some conflicting statements. Some sources solely mention Nigerians, others mention South African, East Africans, and Nigerians, while others solely mention East Africans. AcidSnow (talk) 19:02, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

I have asked those at the military project for help. AcidSnow (talk) 22:38, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Never mind, it seems that it was South Africans (mostly "whites" or probably all). These supposed "incredible" acts were actually done by the South Africans and not Nigerians. This seems to be another error. I have kept the project discussion open the to get other input. AcidSnow (talk) 22:52, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Hello Midday? My apologies if I am bugging you. AcidSnow (talk) 18:34, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Hey, no prob. I believe the Kharijites were Islamic clerics. There were apparently also some Shi'a adherents. Best regards Middayexpress (talk) 19:42, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Controversial Leo Africanus

Soupforone, explain what adea kingdom is, i have never heard of a kingdom in the south other then the Hadiya Sultanate. The Leo reference also makes note of Garaadameth title used by Adea which is very similr to the Hadiya title Garad. Is this Leo's work or Alvarez as most references attribute? Mogadishu as a tributary to Ethiopia is also contested by historians as Ethiopian Kings never penetrated that far into the Somali interior [1] Duqsene (talk) 08:18, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Leo Africanus indicates that the Adea Kingdom was located south of the Adal Sultanate [2]. He does not mention the Hadiya Sultanate, which is not strange since the latter was located all the way in southwestern Ethiopia. I don't see where he mentions the Garad royal title, though (page number?). Note that this was apparently a common local royal title [3] - so even if he had indicated this, it would not have been unusual. Soupforone (talk) 15:07, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

- Hi, I changed some of the terminology in this section for relevance and to be more in line with the source referenced, and am willing to work together with people who have more in depth knowledge to improve this section and page if needed, cheers xox Knittea (talk) 08:34, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Leo Africanus describes the Cafri as pagan "negros" ("Cafri, or lawlesse wilde Negros" [4]). He outlines them more vividly in his passage on Cafraria, which was located in remote southern Africa [5]. However, he does not indicate that the Cafri were indigenous Africans from further inland. This is because in his work, the designation Africans instead mainly pertains to the denizens of the actual Africa Roman province in the Maghreb [6] (ex. "this part of the worlde is inhabited especially by five principall nations, to wit, by the people called Cafri or Cafates, that is to say outlawes, or lawlesse, by the Abassins, the Egyptians, the Arabians, and the Africans or Moores, properly so called" [7]). Soupforone (talk) 14:41, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

OK, that's interesting. I felt that the way this information was presented prior to my edit was unclear about how much of the terminology was Africanus's and how much was part of the WP article. Would it be accurate to describe the Cafri in modern terms as being African rather than "Negroid", since we now talk about Africa as the whole continent rather than a Roman province? And do you feel that it would be appropriate to have a passage about Cafraria on the page for Leo Africanus and link to that rather than trying to explain the meaning of "Cafri" within this paragraph on the Sultanate of Mogadishu page? I think that would make both articles flow better. Cheers Knittea (talk) 05:14, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

Besides the five population aspect, the crux of the problem with describing Leo Africanus' Cafri as African is that he uses the latter essentially as a designation for Berbers. This is made clear in his passage on the inhabitants of Africa propria and the African language ("The tawnie people of the said region were called by the name of Barbar, being derived of the verbe Barbara, which in their toong signifieth to murmur : because the African toong soundeth in the eares of the Arabians, no otherwise than the voice of beasts, which utter their sounds without any accents" [8]). Ergo, the identity of the Cafri cannot be disambiguated with the African qualifier since doing so would insinuate that the Cafri were Berbers, and thus, that Cafraria in remote southern Africa was a Berber territory. Leo Africanus indicates that they were a different population. Soupforone (talk) 14:13, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

I propose that since you know a lot about this, it would be a good idea for you to make a passage about Cafraria on the Leo Africanus article and we can link to it from this article :) Would you be up for that? Knittea (talk) 09:38, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Soupforone

Hello there. I understand about the Adal part but you're getting confused from Adal Kingdom and Adal Sultanate. The Adal Kingdom and Mogadishu Sultanate were indeed allies and both existed in the same times. However, Ajuran Sultanate were allies with Adal Sultanate and it was established before Adal Sultanate and disestablished much later than Adal Sultanate.

Now about Mogadishu Sultanate. I have couple of sources indicating that Mogadishu was the capital of Ajauran Sultanate or the Garen Dynasty began there, but it Mogadishu Sultanate was established by the Ajuran expanding force and the sources in this site proves my claim. It ended in the 13th century.

Lastly, remember Mogadishu Sultanate was allies with Adal Kingdom not Adal Sultanate.

Peace!