Talk:List of DTT channels in the United Kingdom

Template:British TV channels project

SD channels on HD Mux

Any better ideas for marking them, there are a couple in other sections. If they are on HD mux, then Freeview HD is required to receive them. Ace of Risk (talk) 00:37, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

I've personally held the view that the article should not delve too deeply into how to receive a particular channel, and have removed such comments if added. The opening paragraphs details how each multiplex is broadcast (technical and regional), and each channel entry notes which muliplex that channel is on, so it's relatively simple to put two and two together. Eladkse (talk) 17:18, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

I've just added a section with, by coincidence, exactly the same heading: I hadn't noticed this section. I made the change to the article by adding a dagger to the format column of such channels: "16:9 SDTV†", but it was reverted (see later section). It would seem that this merits discussion; to keep it in a single place I would suggest appending it to the later comment, rather than here. So far we have two suggestions that these channels should be flagged, and one disagreeing. Best wished Pol098 (talk) 16:27, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

NI and Greater Manchester channels

Given these no longer clash in LCNs, I feel these separate sections in General Entertainment are somewhat unnecessary. Per my point in the above discussion, multiplexes are noted, so it's no different to COM4-8 or LTV in that regard. Typically, we only note regional/national variation in the notes section if a channel is available in smaller region than the mux it resides (e.g. BBC Alba, S4C exist on nationwide muxes, but are only available in certain areas, so have a note pointing this out. Being on the NI or GI muxes is enough without note. I'm going to merge them and see if anyone complains. Eladkse (talk) 17:18, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

721

BBC Radio Cumbria is now on 721 in the NW and NE of England. Don't want to break the table by adding it myself! ▲RedScrees (talk) 19:42, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

Added, along with the rest of today's additions. Eladkse (talk) 21:03, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

Future events section

I'll be the first to admit policing this section has been rather slack recently. There have been additions to this section based solely on the existence of Ofcom licences, which often do not result in an actual channel on the DTT network. I've removed these additions until firmer announcements about intentions to launch on DTT are made. Exception to this are future Local TV channels which, by virtue of winning the local licence for the relevant area, automatically signal intention to launch on DTT.

Regarding the recent edits for the Community Channel, I note the following from WP:CRYSTAL:

Individual scheduled or expected future events should be included only if the event is [...] almost certain to take place.

The future of Community Channel is clearly uncertain. It may close, it may not. But it is not a definite intention either way. Thus, I feel it fails the above statement and should not be included until its future is certain. Eladkse (talk) 19:06, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Availability column

All but five channels listed in the article are 'free-to-air'. It seems a waste of valuable horizontal space to have this listed in a dedicated column. As such I have reformatted the article to remove this column, and move the restricted availability of the five remaining channels to the comments. If anyone thinks otherwise, I'm happy to discuss. Eladkse (talk) 21:33, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

SD channels on HD mux

I would suggest flagging SDTV channels that are broadcast on an HDTV mux; these channels, despite being in SD, cannot be received on equipment without an HD tuner. I made this change (see the change here) but it was reverted with the summary "No need to specially denote these SD channels - the mux they are on is listed, and the opening paragraph clearly explains where and how they are emitted" (difference here). In the article without this clarification all SDTV channels, whether on an SDTV or HDTV mux, are identified identically as having format "16:9 SDTV". I added a dagger † to flag SDTV on HDTV mux channels: "16:9 SDTV†". The added dagger † is explained in a note below the table "†Channels broadcast on an HD multiplex in standard definition require an HD tuner". This fact is only mentioned in the body of the article because I added it; otherwise it would be down to the reader to divine that the reason for the inability was in the sentence (trimmed here) The COM7 and COM8 transports carry both commercial HDTV and commercial standard definition services.

The reason to do this: Wikipedia should as far as possible be useful (without becoming an instruction manual). Without this clarification a reader looking up a television service would be informed that it was broadcast in standard definition, but not that an HD tuner was required, leading to mystification. The only reason I can see not to add this is to remove a single "†" character from a few entries, an infinitesimal advantage to compensate a significant loss of information. Best wishes Pol098 (talk) 16:17, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

"In the article without this clarification all SDTV channels, whether on an SDTV or HDTV mux, are identified identically as having format "16:9 SDTV"." The Format and H.222 Transport columns contains different information for each channel - Format defines the picture format of the channel, while H.222 Transport defines how the channel is emitted (which transport it is carried on). If we were to include such additional denotions as per your edit, I would argue that they were better suited for the later column.

However, the reason I chose to revert some of your edits relates to a larger problem with the DTT platform. As you probably know, the transport multiplexes vary in availability - both geographically and technologically. In the same vain that you argue that we should individually denote the specifics of receiving these SD channels carried on DVB-T2 muxes (the technological limitations), it can be argued further that we should be individually specifying the limited availability geographically of many of the muxes. This argument very quickly adds a lot of unnecessary bulk to the article.

In response to previous discussions about denoting geographical limitations - I have argued this:

Limitations on receiving a specific channel should only be denoted if it differs from the transport on which it is carried.

For example, we note on a channel level the limitations of certain PSB channels (BBC Alba, S4C) as these are carried on multiplexes that are otherwise received in other areas which do not have these channels. In contrast, we do not note the limitations on a channel level on channels available in Manchester and Northern Ireland, as the multiplexes they are carried on are only available in these areas.

To carry the example further, it is my belief that we should not denote on a channel level the requirement to have DVB-T2 equipment to receive channels residing on a multiplex which is only receivable using this equipment anyway. As I stated in my reversion summary - the availability (both geographically and technologically) of each multiplex is explained in the opening section (this used to be a nice table, but someone rewrote it to prose a while back to make it more encyclopedic). You will note that I did not revert your clarification in this section on receiving SD channels on COM7/8 - this is indeed a useful point to clarify in the article.

In regards to your final point - this is a fairly technical article, with a lot of focus on the specifications of the channels and multiplexes. I feel there are much more informative places such as the Freeview website offering advice (including the type of box) for those simply seeking to receive channels, and this is not the purpose this article should serve. Eladkse (talk) 08:10, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Hours

Are we putting the slot hours or broadcast hours? Channels like movies4men have a 24 hour slot, but only broadcast 06:00 - 04:00 with two hours of teleshopping. Mark999 (talk) 18:47, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Put simply - it's slot hours. However, to elaborate further, the two are one and the same. The channel is still broadcasting, even if it is teleshopping. The article isn't about the content of each channel, so we don't need to make such distinctions. 11:27, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Movies4Men +1

Regarding these edits, the last of which was by Scaz (talk · contribs), is there any evidence that Movies4Men +1 went national? It's not in my current EPG (yes, I have retuned recently) which has all the other national timeshifted channels that are listed. It's also not mentioned in the South/South West edition of the Radio Times - and I've checked all the issues from November 2015, also one every month since then. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:55, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

As far as I know, Movies4Men +1 has not yet gone national and, as shown in the tables, is still on the GImux transport, which is only available in Greater Manchester. Scaz (talk) 16:37, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Changes

Not found the date, but BT Showcase on 59 is discontinued (data placeholder at the moment) moved to HD only. Does it go as removed yet? Ace of Risk (talk) 01:02, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Currently, it's 'ceased broadcasting' on 59 - which I've now updated on the page. The channel data is still being broadcast at the moment, so doesn't get removed yet. When it does, it shouldn't be added to the channels removed section, as the channel is still broadcasting (just in HD instead!) Eladkse (talk) 11:47, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

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No "Shopping channels" category?

Why are all the shopping channels listed under "General Entertainment"? Is this Wikipedia page commercially sponsored or something? Grand Dizzy (talk) 00:45, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

The genres used in the article correspond to those used by DigitalUK when managing the channel listings for DTT. Channels are listed numerically in these genres, as shown on page 13 of their LCN Policy document. The addition of any additional genres in the article would be arbitrary, and subject to differing opinions by editors. Eladkse (talk) 11:56, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the answer, that's very informative. If we were talking about channels such as "reality" or "documentary" channels, then I would definitely agree that it would be impossible to separate them into their own category, as not all such channels fit neatly into such a category, thus any distinction would be arbitrary. But when it comes to shopping channels, there is a very clear distinction which is obvious to all people: that these channels do not contain any regular programmes. This distinction is pretty black and white and clear-cut.

There is no Wikipedia policy against dividing information into useful and valid groupings. Every single sub-heading on Wikipedia could be said to be an 'arbitary' division of information. Therefore I maintain that it is reasonable to put the shopping channels in their own category. If we were to be completely strict about using DigitalUK's categories, then there should be no "Local TV variations" category and all those channels should be listed under "General Entertainment". But they have been quite rightly set apart on the grounds of common sense. I believe the exact same grounds apply to the shopping channels. Grand Dizzy (talk) 00:04, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

The reason local TV and radio variations have been split into a sub-sections of General Entertainment and Radio for ease of understanding, because they are large groups of channels which share a small number of LCNs. These sub-sections are complimented by additional text explaining how they are distributed on DTT.

You assert that there is a distinction between a 'shopping' channel and 'normal' channel in that they do not contain any regular programmes. I disagree - on the contrary, these channels do carry regular programs and programming strands. They just happen to be teleshopping. Further, a great number of 'normal' channels carry teleshopping at certain points of the day; so per your above, not all such channels fit neatly into such a category and any distinction is arbitrary.

This article is primarily a technical one, with a lot of focus on the specifications of the channels and multiplexes on DTT. The article isn't about the content of each channel, so we don't need to make distinctions based on the content. I see no distinction between the two from a technical point of view. The sections in the article are used because they are what used by the operator of DTT to determine the numerical LCN placements - a technical determination. Eladkse (talk) 18:28, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

I appreciate your points, particularly the last one. If we regard this article as being more of a technical one, from the perspective of broadcasting, then it makes sense. Whereas I was looking at the article more from the side of the actual entertainment and content, from the perspective of the end user. There are obviously a lot more Wikipedia readers who will fall into the latter category, though which approach to the article is "correct" I could not speculate.

I don't wish to challenge this any further, but I will close by stating that I believe the majority of viewers would agree that the question of "what constitutes a shopping channel" is extremely clear-cut, and can be very distinctly defined as those channels which show only commercial presentations. Grand Dizzy (talk) 18:30, 14 January 2018 (UTC)