Talk:Syrian civil war

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Title

Suggest the title is dangerously misleading.

Indeed. It's not a civil war. 100+ countries are backing ISIS, including the US. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.239.242.222 (talk • contribs) 16:15, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Map update, per the TFSA s total victory in the Afrin Operation.

Hello, everyone. I just wanted to let you all know that Afrin has completely fallen to the TFSA control so, you might waant to update the map on the article to reflect the change properly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Federation_of_Northern_Syria#/media/File:Syrian_Civil_War_map.svg. I believe this is the latest version of the map.

Request to correct the Iranian and Iranian led casualty numbers

Casualties as per 2018: -549 Iranians -878 Afghans -116 Iraqis -112 Pakistanis

https://twitter.com/Alfoneh/status/984077389318717441

This article uses Ali Alfoneh as a source but it does not show the correct casualty numbers, it should be corrected.

RedSparrow1 (talk) 03:31, 28 April 2018 (UTC)

This article is also a good source:

http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/hundreds-iranians-have-been-killed-syria-why-does-tehran-fight-376313881

Marius816 (talk) 00:15, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

Marius816 First, the middleeasteye report is out-dated by a year compared to newer sources. Wikipedia requires us to use newer sources. Second, the 2,100 figure from March 2017, and the 2,100 figure from March 2018, are not the same. The March 2017 figure was explicitly stated to include both Iranians and non-Iranians. The March 2018 figure was explicitly stated to include only Iranians. Nowhere is it stated in the new March 2018 report that the figure includes non-Iranians as well. Third, Wikipedia's policy actually gives emphasis on the usage of secondary sources, not primary sources, see WP:PSTS. Primary sources are actually avoided if there are secondary ones. Fourth, if you are referring to the Middle East Monitor's pro-Hamas position when saying they are not neutral that does not automatically mean they are incorrect in their report, especially since it is not they who are reporting the figure but are quoting an officially announced Iranian figure. Fifth, no evidence Ali Alfoneh has tracked every single casualty and in fact, when asked about the new 2,100 figure that was officially stated in March 2018, he stated his figures are for those he was able to document and he always emphasis his data collection is ongoing. Finally, the middleeasteye cited in January 2018 [1], an official in the Afghan forces fighting under the Iranian banner that 2,000 Afghans had been killed, further re-affirming that Alfoneh's figures are not always correct and that the new figure of 2,100 could not in any way include non-Iranians as well, even though (again) it was stated the figure was referring to Iranians only. EkoGraf (talk) 07:49, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

I have made an attempt at compromise and now both figures are included. EkoGraf (talk) 08:02, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

I appreciate your attempt at compromise, but I still think Middle East Monitor is a bad source (for instance the picture used in their article is actually an exchange of the remains of soldiers from the Iran-Iraq war at the Salamche border crossing). The 2100 figure originally refered to "defenders of the shrine", thus including non Iranians. This figure has been reused by other media platforms wrongfully refering to them as Iranian citizens. Furthermore the article clearly states "Mohammad Ali Shahidi Mahallati, director of the Martyrs Foundation, did not give a break down of the casualties by nationality. There are many non-Iranians fighting under Iranian command in Syria, but by most credible estimates, at least half of the 2,100 killed are Iranians. The vast majority of the Iranian casualties are likely affiliated to the Quds force, the expeditionary wing of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC)."

Marius816 (talk) 12:44, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

On a further note, I will add Ali Alfoneh's study from the Washington Institute, this is a better source rhan his twitter page: http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/iranian-casualties-in-syria-and-the-strategic-logic-of-intervention

Marius816 (talk) 12:56, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

The quote regarding Mohammad Ali Shahidi Mahallati about different nationalities was from the first report from a year ago. Its not mentioned in the new report. As for the Washington Institute report, its outdated by more than two years, it would be best to find a newer source. EkoGraf (talk) 16:32, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

I provided a newer news report wrote by Alfoneh himself instead of the WI report. PS In this report [2] Alfoneh stated that his figure is, quote, an absolute minimum, reaffirming his figures are incomplete. In any case, glad we settled the issue. EkoGraf (talk) 16:41, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

I still think the number of 2,100 figure is incorrect, this obviously includes non-Iranian nationals. I found the original Persian article, they are ref. to as "defenders of the shrine" (Modafeaaneh Haram). This has been mistranslated by several media sources, including the Middle East Monitor.

Here is the original article in Persian: http://www.bbc.com/persian/iran-39192615 Marius816 (talk) 10:03, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

drought neutrality tag

Given that there is no discussion of it here, I can only assume that the drought neutrality tag was added by someone who doesn't believe in human-made climate change. Given that no one seems to want to discuss it, should it not be removed? Serendi^podous 07:29, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Syrian Civil War/Archive 46#Drought section --Inops (talk) 10:24, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

It is necessary to update the infobox

The map was not updated since May 22, territorial changes since May 4.