Talk:Zombie Land Saga

Lily Hoshikawa's gender

Lily was born as a boy named Masao, and he liked to pretend as a girl. His cause of death was mental shock upon growing facial hair. Upon resurrection as a zombie, Masao changed his name to Lily, and is now a girl. Lily was male, and is now female. Simple as that. Sk8erPrince (talk) 06:16, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Lily was a child actress who was put under a massive amount of stress from both being overworked and suffering from gender dysphoria; starting male puberty caused her a great amount of distress, and her finding the the facial hair was what brought everything to a head, and thus the stress of it all killed her outright. She was born with a male body, but she lived as a girl, went by a feminine stage name, and did not want to become a man so intensely that it triggered her death. As a zombie, she even rejected her old masculine name. Therefore, by definition, Lily is a transgender girl. Muraenabeta (talk) 15:02, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

That just sounds like a boy that hates being a boy. Don't know why you're all so persistent in defining Lily as transgender when it's not confirmed by the author. Wikipedia doesn't include anything that has no verifiability. Besides, it's already been noted that Lily was a boy before being resurrected as a zombie girl. That's more than enough. Sk8erPrince (talk) 16:36, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Why are you so persistent in defining Lily as a cross dressing male when it's not confirmed by the author either? Not sure if it counts as a source - but the English Official page for Zombieland Saga posted this about Lily after the episode being discussed aired. https://twitter.com/SagaZombieLand/status/1066043317274652672 I will admit that its not very concrete compared to a statement from the author however and I understand if you think its a bit of a reach. I also have mentioned multiple times that Lily referred to Masao as an "Old Name". A name she no longer uses because she now identifies as female - transgender. You can argue that this is a POV - but that argument also applies to what you are saying about her being a cross dresser. Unless if you show a source from a creator of Zombieland Saga that implies that she is in fact a cross dresser - then you're just as guilty of pushing your POV as everyone else on this page is. A possible compromise would be just to remove all mentions of her being a cross dresser from the page - but no mention of her being transgender either - at least until there is concrete information to prove either side. GreenteaKitkat2000 (talk) 16:59, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Removed all mentions of transgender and crossdressing per request. This sounds reasonable enough. Sk8erPrince (talk) 17:18, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Semi-protected edit request on 24 November 2018

Please change "Born as a boy named Masao Go, Lily was a prodigious crossdressing child actor before he died from mental shock upon growing facial hair. Later on, Lily was resurrected as a female zombie by Kotaro. Lily has no qualms about her new lifestyle as a zombie, seeing it as a way to continue being a child forever." to something along the lines of "Assigned male at birth with the name Masao Go, Lily was a prodigious transgender child actor before she died from mental shock upon growing facial hair. Later on, Lily was resurrected as a zombie by Kotaro. Lily has no qualms about her new lifestyle as a zombie, seeing it as a way to continue being a child forever." The newest episode pretty clearly showed her as being transgender. With her referring to Masao Go as an "Old Name" as a real transgender person might with their dead name. She also corrects people whenever they refer to her as "Masao" and also says "Lily will always be Lily" - showing that she identifies as female. Sources for this is episode 8 of Zombie land Saga GreenteaKitkat2000 (talk) 12:30, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Declined: Transgender does not apply to zombies. Furthermore, the current revision perfectly sums up Lily's past life as a boy - Lily, as Masao, was clearly and evidently a crossdresser, because she was a he. Please do not post similar requests. Additionally, no reliable source cites Lily as a transgender, so trying to integrate that element into the article forcefully is WP:OR. It would be a violation of policy. Sk8erPrince (talk) 13:50, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Semi-protected edit request on 24 November 2018

Change "Lily was a prodigious crossdressing child actor before he died from mental shock" to "Lily was a prodigious child actor before she died from mental shock" That wannabe cat (talk) 14:46, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Declined: Lily was a crossdresser before she was resurrected as a female zombie. No matter how many edit requests you make, I'll keep declining them because you have failed to state a valid rationale as to why I should accept your request. Sk8erPrince (talk) 15:56, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Calling Lily a crossdresser when she was alive is just as much of a viewer interpretation as referring to her as trans. The latter has considerably more to support it, however. Additionally, the argument that "transgenderism doesn't apply to zombies" is errant nonsense. Why not? The zombies in this show are clearly just as sentient as when they were living human beings. Calling one interpretation WP:OR but not the other reeks of editor bias. --77.161.126.44 (talk) 16:00, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

A male that pretends to be female is a crossdresser; that's a fact, not WP:OR. That's exactly what Lily did when she was a he. Transgenderism, however, is an entirely different concept that requires reliable sources to support it. You should look up Wikipedia policies before you start accusing other editors of "editorial bias". Sk8erPrince (talk) 16:13, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 24 November 2018

The following is slightly incorrect about the cause of Lily's death and worded with bias: "Born as a boy named Masao Go, Lily was a prodigious crossdressing child actor before he died from mental shock upon growing facial hair. Later on, Lily was resurrected as a female zombie by Kotaro." Suggested change to more neutral language and correction to cause of death: "Born Masao Go and going by the stage name of Lily Hoshikawa, Lily was a prodigious child actor who died of overwork. Not desiring to go through puberty, her death was triggered by the shock of discovering that she was starting to grow facial hair." Muraenabeta (talk) 16:39, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Declined: So did Lily die from overworking or mental shock? You listed two causes of death. That's contradictory. And why are you so insistent in getting rid of any mention that Lily was a boy? She was a boy, and that's a fact. I fail to see how this is a better revision than the current one. Sk8erPrince (talk) 16:46, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

It is more neutral. Some regard Lily as a boy, some regard Lily as a girl, and some fall somewhere in-between; there being two sides, Wikipedia should not favor one or the other, as dictated by policy. As for how the facial hair discovery and the overwork death add together, the former is what triggered the event of her dying, while the latter is what allowed it to be fatal. I will suggest two alternatives, as I erroneously suggested an edit that was biased by using the feminine pronoun. First: "Born Masao Go and going by the stage name of Lily Hoshikawa, Lily was a prodigious child actor who died of overwork. The death was triggered when Lily, not desiring to go through puberty, discovered the growth of a new facial hair." Second: "Born Masao Go and going by the stage name of Lily Hoshikawa, Lily was a prodigious child actor who died of overwork." Muraenabeta (talk) 17:04, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Done. I trimmed the revision a bit, and removed all mentions of transgender and crossdressing. Sk8erPrince (talk) 17:16, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Probably the best choice of action for now since dressing up as woman or even prentendimg to be one does not necesssrly make a person transsexual since we don’t have any direct confirmation that the character felt that their gender identity was different than their assigned sex. What we would need to use that term is either an explicit confirmation from the work or the people in charge of the show.--67.68.28.220 (talk) 19:12, 24 November 2018 (UTC)