User talk:Kanatonian

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Salagama

Could you please share with me your knowledge on this community? Do you have any idea about their family names? Do they have only one family name (Nanediri) or many more? That(Naediri) family name is generally taken as proof of Brahmin heritage among Salagamas. From the look of it the name resembles Njandari one of the lineages of Saliyas. I mean if we can compare other family names, we can say something about it. These lineages have nothing to do with Brahmins and very much part of non-Brahmin Tulu/Malayalee communities.

The Brahmin claim of Malayalee weavers is just a reflection South Indian artisan community probably dating back to their independent and prosperous period of medieval times and has nothing to do with However, I am not clear about the name Salagama. I can make out Haali and Chaliya but -gama beats me. Who knows there could be descendents of Brahmins among Salagamas as the article says that initial settlers were not weavers.

I would like to know your thoughts. Thanks. Manjunatha (5 Oct 2006)

Gama is derived from Grama or village or in this case horde or group of people. It is an imitation of the name Govigama the dominant caste of people in Sri Lanka, about the rest later RaveenS 21:09, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

About their family names, please do a search on Salagama Ge names or simply Ge nameslike here . Ge here stands for from not Gedara or house name as other Sinhalese castes have. Only Salagama along with Karave and Durave have Ge names. Most also have Iberian names such as De Soyza, Peiris..... mixed with Ge names.

Thanks for your inputs. Unfortunately, I am not aware of meanings of any of Saliya lineages. So, even if I find some Salagama Ge names I am not sure how much comparison I'll be able to make! However, traditionally, these names were affixed with "illa" which means "house". ie. Njandarilla, Vadiyarilla etc. Are you aware of any Tamil communities that have similar traditions? It looks like only Srilankan communities with South Indian origins have this "Ge" suffixed.

By the way, are Salagamas also known as "Chaliya" in Sri Lankan society? I was wondering if they were from Kerala or Tamil Nadu as Chaliya is generally used in Kerala. However, even many traditional weavers of Kerala migrated from Tamil Nadu(saali) and Karnataka(devanga...probably originally jeda=spider)(and in fact, most of Tamil weavers(saali) migrated from Andhra Pradesh... in the end it looks like Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh were the main source regions for weavers).

Manjunatha

If you find some Ge names of Salagama, I can translate them for you if they are in Sinhalese. Ge names creation was not a seemless process, some are based on jobs, others on titles, yet others just made up. Some have Tamil/Malayalam roots yet others are in Sinhalese.

Haliya is name used in the Kandyan area for weavers, today these weavers may or may not identify with Salagama. Saliyar is a group of weavers in Jaffna too. Salagama were composed of number of sub groups. Some were fighting groups, yet others were servants and workers eventually used as cinnamon peelers. My opinion is number of different South Indian groups have come to assume the identify of a dominant group in that area, IE the Saliya fighting groups or mercenaries. How some Chaliy from Kerala ended up as mercenaries in Sri Lanka is an interesting question unless they had some martial background in Kerala such as Nairs and Eezhavs. All kinds of South Indians have been hired to fight on behalf of that or this king for the last 2500 years in Sri Lankan history. As the local Sinhalese always had excess land to move on as their population increased depriving their rulers of regular supply of fighters unlike in South India where there was excess man power for hire due to the prevailing political-military system

Thank you for your help. Unfortunately, I have not yet come across any website with Salagama "Ge" names. However, your link on Ge names made an interesting reading!

I believe being a mercenary was not a great deal in old days(until 16-17th century) in those regions. However, my understanding is mostly from Tulu society and not from Malayalee society. From my reading it appears communities like Bunt, Billava and Holeya in Tulu regions were required to send one person for every household in old days. Of course at that time most of the rulers were Jains(though many converted to Vaishnavism and became Hindus during Hoysala period). However, occupational groups were exempted from this duty. Curiously, even Holeyas acted as leaders some times(though most of the time it would be Bunts and to certain extent Billavas). However, after 16th century(1500 onwards) the region came under direct Kannada ruling. The Ikkeri Nayaks didn't trust local communities and brought Marathi communities for soldiering to this region. From 16th century onwards none of the communities indulged in warfare.

If you apply this model to Kerala also, I believe most of the communities might have been obliged to fight in old days. Weavers were generally brought from outside. However, many locals might have joined them who were traditionally required to fight in warfare(However, weavers being part of occupational groups were exempted from this duty in Tulu regions and in North Kerala even Tiyya(Ezhava) participation in the army also became rare by 17-18th century I believe).

Manjunatha (23 Oct 2006)

Raja Yoga controversy

Dear Hinduism Project editors,

There is a controversy on the Hinduism regarding Raja Yoga. Please read the debate on the Hinduism discussion page. Your comments are requested on the Hinduism discussion page to help resolve the controversy. Thank you. 68.239.78.172 15:07, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Tamilnet

Yes its not original research anymore, but that tag also covers for unreliable sources as well. Since some of the allegations for the controversy rests solely on the Ministry of Defence citations, that tag or alternate tag should be put in. I am not so sure you will argue that Ministry of Defence is a reliable source. Elalan 18:31, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

The article looks better now, I would remove the freedom fighters line and make it into rebel group to be consistent with how other Wikipedia articles on this subject are written. Also we really dont have any sources to write about the positive aspects of Tamilnet such as human rights advocacy etc. Thus the article reads POV but that's what the sources we have Ministry of defence, Lines, UTHR(J) and Asian tribune all POV against Tamilnet. With time editors will get other sources to balance out the content eventually. Thanks RaveenS 13:53, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for you comments. I guess there is Tamilnation and potentially sangam that might have articles relevant or describing Tamilnet, although I haven't looked. Elalan 02:48, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually this paper has a wealth of information on Tamilnet, its history and Sivaram (particularly the human righs angle). Here is the link: http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/anthropological_quarterly/v077/77.3whitaker.html. If you can't get access to the paper, let me know, I'll figure out a way to post it somewhere temporarily that is. Elalan 03:29, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

NCSLC

RaveenS, do join the new project here [1] Looking fwd to see you there, Thanks. Sudharsansn 21:05, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the invite but I will do what I can from outside. Sri Lankan (Tamil) politics is not my primary call. My aim is to increase content about Sri Lankan Tamil people in Wikipedia, a soon to be extinct and vanishing ethnic group amongst many others (like the Baltic Germans, Parsees...). Currently I am interested in dead people(s). Dead if they are lucky because of natural causes or because of LTTE, other Tamil militants or government of Sri Lanka decisions. Hopefully this maccabre scenario will come to an end during my life time. I just finished editing Thileepan another idealistic youth of my era who died young and in vain. I have a lot more dead people to write about, it is my Requiem for Sri Lankan Tamils! Thanks againRaveenS 22:26, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

It is always good to see one who accepts his mistakes.-Regards.-Bharatveer 04:18, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I am completely with you on this Raveen, right now I am focussing on VP page and then onto Thileepan and others. Eitherway, FYI, I had brought in Thileepan incident in the VP Page :-) Sudharsansn 13:56, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Template: Sri Lankan Civil War

Hi Raveen, Thanks for the mesage. First of all, I did not create the template, but you're welcome to edit it since wikipedia is a wiki. You do not need to ask for permission and your contributions are always welcome (a long as they're not vandalistic). Secondly, it's not always possible to complete an article by yourself, and it is neccessary to post the article and ask for help. The confrontation came about because the administrator assumed she had certain edit rights which she didn't, and essentially enforced her views on the quality of the article without allowing me to improve it, which is a violation of wikipedia policies. Anyways, I have moved on now. In the meantime, by all means, your contributions will be welcome.Rueben lys 11:49, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Date stamp issue

One of the allgations in this article relies on datestamp, another explanation could be the date stamp on the article can be wrong based on the camaer set up of the camera man. It is another explnation. See below a new news item that is not under any allgations but the date stamp is wrong according to Tamilnet Datestamp issueRaveenS 22:53, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

If you could please write something in this regard. That would be great. Elalan 15:23, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

How though ? It will be original research unless someone lese writes about somewhere before we can add in Wikipedia ?RaveenS 17:38, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I gues the question is, can we get stuff about this from comparable wire news sources Elalan 18:45, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

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Velupillai Prabhakaran page issue

Hi Raveen, Pls go through this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Velupillai_Prabhakaran&diff=82998537&oldid=82954817

Here Iwazaki has framed up two entire sections of his own, literally without any citation at all. The citations he has pointed to refer to a newspaper article which he has read sometime ago and is not a piece of evidence which can be verified by everybody who would be reading that article. It is something like 'I-saw-that-in-news-once' kind of a link. A strong msg needs to be sent out to Iwazaki who is violating almost every single policy of Wikipedia, Civility, NPOV, Verifiability, etc...I kindly request you to step in and take some action to avoid blanking-out vandalism and reverting to uncited versions of the article which transitively refers to Vandalism. Pls go through my posts here to justify removal of the sections and how he has responded here

The user has also been issued a final warning for Civility but continues his spree of personal attacks and diplomatic vandalism. Check this Iwazaki Talk page

This seems to be going on for almost a month inspite of several friendly suggestions and also Admin warnings. Kindly help. Thanks Sudharsansn 13:57, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Sudharsan, Iwazaki is a newbie so we have to be patient. I have my confidence that eventually he will turn out to be a good editor. These articles cannot be made over night. Although it went against my policy of getting involved in politically charged articles (except when people are dead) I've done what I could to direct the discussion right now. If it is acceptable to both the camps then I am willing to unofficilly mediate more point by point. Hope it helps now. Keep up your good work, but don't let it consume to the point that you loose sleep over a piece Wikipedia article. Thanks RaveenS 03:02, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I understand Raveen. I am just worried about the efforts I have taken over this page and that being vandalized for no reason at all with uncited evidence. Let us list out our diff of opinions in that page to get it mediated. Thanks Sudharsansn 10:02, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Child soldiers

Thanks for comment. I have added a comment on the Karuna Group to Military use of children which I found from UNICEF. Have you any other news references in mind? --BozMo talk 19:32, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Updated Tamilnet

I have added additional referenced stuff on Tamilnet, which you might want to look over. Elalan 03:06, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

My suggestions for sub titles

• Style and Operation– Modus Operandi
• Media view and Tamilnet view– Perceptions
• References and and Allegations of false reporting - References
• Government threats and murder of its murder under Government threats –  ?

That sounds a lot better. Please go ahead with this. Elalan 13:31, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Done,

Raveen,actually the original link to the article has been updated with the timestamp comment, hence a new link won't be necessary. But I will be putting a sentence or two regarding this, because this certainly changes things. Elalan 21:47, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Carnatic Music page

Hi, do you are any of your friends, have an interest in Carnatic Music and can take a look at Carnatic Music page (and talk page) and give your opinions? The edit wars are preventing any progress to be made in this important page. The issue is some people are reverting any reference to Silapathikaram or any of the Tamil works for citing musical ideas and concepts. The talk pages contain valuable information. If you know friends who would be neutral (for drawing both from Sanskrit and Tamil sources and not for excluding legitimate Tamil sources), please tell them. I would appreciate. I'm writing to you, because I've seen some edits done by you in tamil-related issues.--Aadal 19:43, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your message in my talk page. Such things as you mention do exist to varying degrees. C.R. Krishnamurthy's article in Tamil Nation dot org. Well known music critics like Ramana, Muthukumar, Prof. Pasupathy et al have written and they are available in the web. Prof. George Hart had shown for literary forms. I was primarly asking to see whether you know someone who may have interest

in music and who can give input for the discussions. Some editors have systematically removed any reference to Tamil there and have repeatedly deleted constructive edits which involved adding a one line descritpion to the rare 7th century Kudumiyan Malai music inscriptions in Tamil Nadu, adding the Tamil Trinity of Muthu Thandavar, Arunachala Kavi, Marimutha pillai and a reference to a book containing their compositions and Tamil solfege names kural, thutham, kaikkilai (one of the oldest in the world). There is nothing controversial about these. These are all facts. Thanks for your suggestions. --Aadal 15:48, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your message again. It is systematic vandalism by a few editors who are dead-against Tamil, but the claim is content dispute. I had answered at length to the objections and I've provided a wealth of information (with specific details). While I and a few other editors are for inclusive approach based on hard facts, a few editors are systematically against tamil and they want t0 and do exclude tamil and tamil-related info. WP should not be a place for displaying hatred for Tamil or for that matter any particular group. Thanks.--Aadal 17:42, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Again Thanks! For the Kudumiyan Malai musical inscription, I had given Tamil Nadu Govt. Archeology Dept's publication (a book), for Tamil Trinity, again I had provided a book containing their compositions and reference to websites, for the solfege I had provided references. There is someone else user Ncmvocalist who had modified recently. But my constructive edits containing just the above points were repeatedly reverted though I supported them well. Anohte editor User Venu62 did lot of ground work on the page before a few people came in and started reverting everything. Thanks for visiting Carantic page and doing some editorial changes. --Aadal 18:19, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

http://www.carnatica.net/tmusic.htm 134.115.68.21 00:10, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Good reading but it is still a website ?

Raveen, I've provided references from well-known musicologists like Prof. P.Sambamurthy and the author O. Gosvami who is quoted by well known musicologists like Emmie Te Nijenhuis and many others. Thanks for taking an interest and trying to resolve this edit wars ('content dispute'). Would you please take a look and see whether it is all okay. Thanks. --Aadal 15:00, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Raveen for your help! I greatly appreciate your help and I hope the page doesn't deteriorate, it is one of the important pages in the area of art in the indian subcontinent. One point however, not for a debate, but to seek your opinion: The word Vedic is much more exclusive than Tamil. Tamil is a name for a multi-religious, multi-ethnic group of people whereas Vedic is much more restrictive referring to one small section of people. Please understand that I'm making this statement that Vedic is more exclusive than Tamil and nothing against Vedic (people). But I understand your point about why you would suggest South Indian rather than Tamil, but I believe it is not a correct premise. There are more pressing problems in that article than this and so I'm not sure I should raise it. Again, I sincerely than you for your very constructive and postive help. --Aadal 19:32, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I think I was not being clear. Any classical form is ususlly derived from number of (1 or many) non-classical forms as well as other classical forms. CM according to my brief reading is an outcome of the Vedic tradition (exclusive or not but it gave rise to number of classical forms throughout South and Southeast Asia and it not under any major question), prevalent refinement of folk forms now known as Ancient Tamil music and real folk forms from South India. I was simply suggesting that Ancent Tamil music is a restrictive term for a genre and Ancient South Indian music would be more accomodating of Kannada and Telugu traditions that could be added if and when such references are found. After all CM is really a South Indian classical music form not just Tamil classical music so why not use the term South Indian to talk about its roots such as Ancient Tamil music. Under a general Ancient South Indian music genre we really are talking about Ancient Tamiul music because that's all we have material on right now. So in effect we are saying that CM is an out come of Vedic derived tradition of North India and its further developmnent in South India, ancient classical forms found in South India (of which Ancient Tamil music is an important contributer) and folk forms found in South India. So it is a synthesis of different forms from North and South India. Hope this helpsRaveenS 16:09, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

mandyam

are you a mandyam iyengar? username: maas

Rajkumar Kanagasingam

Dear Mr. RaveenS, Rajkumar Kanagasingam article is blocked, please help to activate it. With regards,rajsingam

It is no longer but Dominic Jeeva article is on AFD. Let me do what I can RaveenS 14:25, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Military Use of Children

I had noticed and it looks fine: I think at some point we should add that Karuna is a LTTE spin off and only recently pro-government, and perhaps move some of the other material out to subpages but you have improved it in my view, thanks. --BozMo talk 15:59, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I think someone will also probably change "occupied palestinian territories" to a more accepted phrase too but otherwise, its good thanks. --BozMo talk 16:02, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

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Vaharai bombing

Would it be possible to get copyright permission from news service such as Tamilnet to have a non incendiary photo for the page. Elalan 03:24, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I have updated the page with a few minor references and added a section. Let me know what you think. Please feel free to change it as you see fit. Elalan 04:01, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

RaveenS, I am not sure what you mean by front page. Can you please elaborate. Thanks Elalan 14:50, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

There is also an article called Nadarajah Raviraj. Could you help merging the two. Actually you should probably do this. Elalan 15:06, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

{{Helpme}}

I need to know how to add the follwing article to todays news Nadarajah Raviraj. He was killed today. Thanks RaveenS 16:25, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page gives instructions. --ais523 16:45, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi RaveenS, just after I asked you I figured what you meant. So I did added it to a number locations. That was a great piece of work by you on short notice. :) Elalan 17:49, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

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Great Work!

[News in the Main page] Its in. Elalan 20:37, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Citation Issue on State Terrorism Page

I have run into a problem with the citations. So here is the link to the revision I was working on [2]. I couldn't match the source to the citation after the following sentence. "No individuals have been convicted of crimes relating to these incidents." Actually you might want to continue from this point onwards since you are perhaps most familliar with the sources I have set up the formatting for the new citation and I will give you the code below. I will also revert back to the version before I started. Elalan 22:27, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Vaharai Bombing

Hi RaveenS, you might want to see whats happening on the Vaharai bombing page. The intro has been distorted to reflect govt. propaganda. The reuters report interviews "survivors" in govt held territory. This Reuters report has not been confirmed by any of the other news sources. Elalan 00:49, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Anyway the cat is out of the bag, the whole dam world has condemned it and no amount of sugar coating will make the sour taste go away. But at the end there should be room for controversy as LTTE is known in the past to use human sheilds. But as the US government report said even if it was used as a human sheild the SL Army should have used caution and they dont want no more massacres like this in the future. It was a stern warning. Hope the trigger happy cowboys can be contained in the future. I will keep an eye on it anywayRaveenS 02:01, 14 November 2006 (UTC).

Take a look at this [3]. You will need to intervene quickly on this. Elalan 03:38, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, before I could blink the Wiki process took care of it. Anyway I am on to a few days off because of business, keep an eye on things:-)) Thanks and see you later RaveenS 03:55, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I panicked for a second and I guess there was nothing to worry about. Thanks and see you later.  :) Elalan 04:00, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Racist

Lahiru is racist,we should get his LTTE logo deleted. PS; I am Tamil too. Donnyt 18:19, 14 November 2006 (UTC)