Talk:Kho people: Difference between revisions

Browse history interactively

← Previous edit Next edit →

Content deleted Content added

VisualWikitext

Inline

Revision as of 14:19, 23 November 2019

Ethnic groups Start‑class

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ethnic groupsWikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groupsTemplate:WikiProject Ethnic groupsEthnic groups articles

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.

???

This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Ethnic groups open tasks:

Here are some open WikiProject Ethnic groups tasks:

Meta-tasks:
- Place the {{Ethnic groups}} template on the talk page of articles within the scope of this project.
- Resolve the disparity in importance rankings among different ethnic groups
Articles about ethnic groups that currently have issues needing resolution:
Start an article:
- Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Article requests

Feel free to edit this list or discuss these tasks.

Pakistan Start‑class

	Pakistan portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pakistan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pakistan on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PakistanWikipedia:WikiProject PakistanTemplate:WikiProject PakistanPakistan articles
Start	This article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Kho people in Jammu and Kashmir

Where do these kho people live in Jammu and Kashmir and that too in such a heavy number of 1900. I looked at the Jammu and Kashmir page and there was no mention of Kho people in Jammu and Kashmir. Anyone who is editing this page should provide reliable sources. According to Rehmat Aziz Chitrali a famous chitrali linguist there are no more 1000 Kho people in India who live in Chatur district. Imazharyes (talk) 00:50, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Indo-Aryan genetics

See The Kho people: archaic Indo-Aryans. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 11:54, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

November 2019

@Fylindfotberserk: The link you provided in support of Kowar spoken in India contains no mention of Khowar. Provide the proper link, your link contains nothing as such.

@Identityanddifference:Check the link https://www.ethnologue.com/language/khw here]. Scroll to "Also spoken in" section, open it, you'll find "19,200 in India (2000)" written. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 17:20, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Fylindfotberserk: I cannot open this link it requires a subscription and I seriously doubt the authenticity. Provide a survey conducted by the government of India or other such official statistics. I don't understand why are you referring to some commercial site. @Fylindfotberserk: So, are you going to remove India from this article or should I remove it myself?

@Identityanddifference: It is a third party reliable source. Doesn't need subscription. Create a free account and see. Ethnologue has recently started restricting anonymous viewers. And Kho article is well patrolled by Wikipedia editors. Why do you think we will keep unsourced stuff here? And about the genetics section you added, I can only view the abtract and the supplementary docx, which doesn't mention the mtDNA percentages. Is there a free full PDF? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 17:40, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Fylindfotberserk: See, here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/331844587_Genetic_structure_of_Kho_population_from_north-western_Pakistan_based_on_mtDNA_control_region_sequences

@Identityanddifference: Thanks. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 17:54, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Fylindfotberserk: Welcome :) I got the Indian statistics, but now I'm going to update the statistics for Pakistan since the current figures are not official and without reference.

@Identityanddifference: Keep in mind that the source you provide is WP:RS and explicitly mentions "Khowar"/"Kho". We cannot add data if the source only mentions the total amount of people in XYZ district. As you can see it is better to have conversation and edit after mutual agreement. Cheers!. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:06, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Identityanddifference: You know what, I'll use this Ethnologue source to quote population figures of Pakistan as well as source Gizer district, etc. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:39, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Fylindfotberserk: How do they collect statistics? Do they conduct their own survey or get data from gov?

@Identityanddifference: They get data from government as well as other means. Ethnologue is a reliable WP:Independent source which is used by almost all ethnic articles I've seen, but obviously if someone has a more recent data, they can update it in the article. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 19:15, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Fylindfotberserk: They've not mentioned anywhere how they collect data, this issue is mentioned on its own wiki page as well. I don't find any mention of Khowar spoken in India other than this site and few other Christian missionary sites (which contain reference back to this). I checked Britannica and "European Foundation for South Asian Studies" [1] and there is no mention of Khowar spoken in India, neither it is stated anywhere by the gov. of India.

I've seen mention of specific census study in Ethnologue articles, which proves that govt. data are used. As for Khowar, it might be possible that they were grouped within Dardi or Others within the mother language Kashmiri in the Indian census [2]. Indian census typically group the minority languages under related majority languages. If you are interested, you can see that a lot of different languages like Haryanvi, Bhojpuri, Sadri are all grouped under Hind, when infact Standard Hindi speakers are much lower in number. Same with Punjabi, Bengali and other languages spoken by majority of the region. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:20, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Fylindfotberserk: "it might be possible that they were grouped within Dardi or Others within the mother language Kashmiri" If that were the case they would have merged all Dardic languages under one group, but I see the separate mentioning of Shina and Kashmiri in Indian state census. "Might be" is not a strong argument. "I've seen mention of specific census study in Ethnologue articles, which proves that govt. data are used." The gov. doesn't provide details on Khowar then how do they know the population of Khowar speakers?

Might not be a strong argument, but it is a fact that many related languages are clubbed within a larger regional language in India. There are other ways of getting data on a population. Govt. census is one of them. CIA sources are also used. Though I'm not sure how Ethnologue does this. Since Ethnologue has been used reliably in a lot of articles, but your concerns are also legit, I'd like the discussion to be on the Khowar language article. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:57, 23 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Fylindfotberserk: yeah, great!

@@ Line 29: / Line 29: @@
 ::::::{{ping|Fylindfotberserk}} "it might be possible that they were grouped within ''Dardi'' or ''Others'' within the mother language Kashmiri" If that were the case they would have merged all Dardic languages under one group, but I see the separate mentioning of Shina and Kashmiri in Indian state census. "Might be" is not a strong argument. "I've seen mention of specific census study in Ethnologue articles, which proves that govt. data are used." The gov. doesn't provide details on Khowar then how do they know the population of Khowar speakers?
 {{od}} Might not be a strong argument, but it is a fact that many related languages are clubbed within a larger regional language in India. There are other ways of getting data on a population. Govt. census is one of them. CIA sources are also used. Though I'm not sure how Ethnologue does this. Since Ethnologue has been used reliably in a lot of articles, but your concerns are also legit, I'd like the discussion to be on the Khowar language article. - [[User:Fylindfotberserk|Fylindfotberserk]] ([[User talk:Fylindfotberserk|talk]]) 12:57, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
+::::::{{ping|Fylindfotberserk}} yeah, great!