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description of comedic form?

i came to this page to get a sense of how people would describe the common comedic styles of these actors and films, not just to get their names. would any contributor be interested in adding a "comedic style" section or "critical opinion" or something about who the target audience is? 71.135.39.56 (talk) 06:35, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

stricter criteria for filmography

I feel that there needs to some clean up in the filmography portion of this article. I feel that some movies, though they feature members of the frat pack, are not what the public would consider "frat pack" films. A prime example is madagascar 2. I propose that some criteria relating to the intended audience, teens and college age males, and the over all style and subject be implemented. I know this is sublective, but i feel like what is up right now is not accurate. If no one has anything to say about this after a couple of days, i am going to go for it. Cheers! Nate (talk) 18:09, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • I empathise with this point. Certainly films like Along Came Polly or Talladega Nights have more in common with "true" Frat Pack films than things like Around the World in 80 Days. (as an aside, since Jack is not confirmed for Madagascar 2, that should probably be removed). I'm not sure what the best recommendation is, since borderline films like Meet the Fockers may not may not fit people's expecations. The current chart is reflective of films with more than one Frat Pack star, but the rest of it "what's a 'Frat Pack' style film" or 'Frat Pack Classic' are pretty subjective.Kevin Crossman (talk) 20:49, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Over at the Frat Pack Tribute we addressed this by making separate charts for films with only a single Frat Pack star, and to separate the "family fare" into a separate chart. Before making changes, perhaps you can provide more details of what those would be? I'm not opposed to clarifying the seminal Frat Pack films, that's for sure. The problem is that nobody has done this except for the Tribute site, which may or may not fit the definition of a source to be referenced.Kevin Crossman (talk) 20:49, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The thing that is kind of bullshit about the "frat pack" as opposed to the "rat pack" is that we never hear about these guys hanging around? Do they? This group makes some pretty funny movies, but does anything make them cool?-TS —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.203.109.18 (talk) 05:09, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I reacon a film needs two have to of them in the lead role. Sorta like Zoolander and Starsky & Hutch. Or have one lead role and a few minors like Anchorman. But all films need to have one lead I reacon.

I believe that the list is far too broad and that some of the movies have only two members in supporting roles or in the case of Knocked up it has steve carell who kind of counts as a member in the fact that he had minor roles in some movies with the other guys in a cameo and owen wilson in a dvd extra. I think that the following movies should be removed: The Cable Guy, The Suburbans, Meet the Parents, Orange County, Run Ronnie Run, Meet the Fockers, Tenacious D in The Pick of Destiny, Melinda and Melinda, Bewitched, Night at the Museum, Blades of Glory, Knocked Up, and Night at the Museum 2: Escape from the Smithsonian


unsigned comment added by 66.134.129.116 (talk) 19:58, 1 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Why would you remove those? The chart indicates the movie connections between the actors and all of those movie do that, esp. movies where one or more have large parts (Meet the Parents, Night at the Museum, Tenacious D).Kevin Crossman (talk) 17:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Those movies star one person in a staring role and another in a supporting role at most. this list has almost 30 movies it is at this point almost a list of every movie any of these actors have ever done.

Knocked up has a cameo and someone in a dvd extra that has nothing to do with movies like old school wedding crashers and doge ball. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.167.237.116 (talk) 00:41, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Frat Pack Tribute Site

There is no need for the frat pack tribute site to be mentioned. The only reason it is mentioned is because Kevin Crossman wants to get more people to visit his site. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.81.136.149 (talk) 12:08, August 21, 2007 (UTC)

(Kevin Crossman) your contradicting yourself in an above article you say that your site is just a fan site and ranking on Google is nothing to go by yet you keep mentioning your site and even put the site address in. I suggest you stop as you are violating Wikipedia's Policies and guidelines. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.81.137.111 (talk)

  • The page is quoting from my site, so YES, I want links back to my site when direct quotes are used (as with any quote on Wikipedia, by the way). As for some of the other site links, no... I did not add those.Kevin Crossman 17:29, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Regarding the Google comment, my point was that the Tribute site shouldn't be included just because it has a high Google rank, but that it has good content for this topic.Kevin Crossman 17:29, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • By the way, you'd establish better credibility as someone who truly understands Wikipedia's policies if you were a registered user rather than a rotating series of IP addresses. :-) Kevin Crossman 18:00, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am an established user i just forgot to sign in before making my comments User:Harry weasley And anyway you seem to have little knowledge of what films are frat pack films because you are always changing what films you have listed on your so called tribute site. For instance you added Run Ronnie Run even though its only frat pack connections are cameos and you took away School Of Rock despite the fact that it is a typical frat pack comedy. You may argue this by saying that it only has one frat pack member (Jack Black) however it isn't in you frat pack tribute recomends list either. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Harry weasley (talk • contribs) 22:50, August 22, 2007 (UTC).

  • a) Run Ronnie Run has two Frat Pack members, so it is included on the Movie Scorecard page alongside any other project that has more than one Fratter (including dramas like Permanent Midnight). b) School of Rock was moved to the Family Films page when we added that a couple months ago. As for my knowledge of what films "are frat pack films" the page on our site that defines what a "frat pack movie" is (as opposed to movies with frat pack stars) has changed only when new movies are released (example: Blades of Glory earlier this year). We were the first outlet to "define" what a Frat Pack film is, and the definition has not changed substantially in three years. That's the page referenced in the Wiki article, by the way. Kevin Crossman 04:07, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you only add new films when they are released how come it took you 3 years to add around the world in 80 days (it came out in 2004 but you only added it in 2007)Harry weasley —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.81.137.139 (talk) 11:45, August 23, 2007 (UTC)

  • You're talking about the Movie Scorecard, not the list of "Frat Pack Classics." Inclusion on that chart does not deem a film to be "what films are frat pack films" to use your terminology. The list of "Frat Pack Classics" has stayed steady, with the exception of Envy which was added to the list based on input from the other Tribute editors and Jack Black's rising status within the Pack. Please don't assume every movie on the Scorecard is a "frat pack movie". As noted, Permanent Midnight is on the list but is a drama. See? Kevin Crossman 15:37, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

THIS PAGE IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT THIS ARTICLE NOT YOUR LITTLE FANSISTE —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.81.137.139 (talk) 23:05, August 23, 2007 (UTC)

  • I'm really sorry I started this thread, then. Oh, wait... I didn't start the thread, did I? Kevin Crossman

04:54, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

yes you did

    • Actually, this thread, which is clearly about the Frat Pack site, was started by the person with the IP address 88.81.136.149 on August 21, 2007 which I'm assuming is Mr. Harry Weasley. Kevin Crossman is merely responding to the attacks to his name. And said attacks aren't even correct, such as accusations of "taking away" School of Rock. And the bottom line is the Wikipedia Frat Pack page took a direct quote from Crossman's site, so an attribution is required. And why is Crossman's site constantly being attacked simply for being linked? Look at the page for The Office; they have multiple fan sites listed, and they qualified as a Featured Article. Clearly, Crossman's Frat Pack site has grown into an increasingly relevant source as he's been contacted by outlets such as Universal Pictures & USA Today. But going back to the attack by User 88.81.137.139, Kevin didn't start the discussion about his site. If any blame is to be placed, send it to whoever the user was that quoted the Frat Pack site to describe what a Frat Pack movie is. Check the IPs, that text wasn't placed by Kevin Crossman.See me let go —The preceding signed but undated comment was added at 23:41, August 24, 2007 (UTC).

Walk Hard

Hey get Walk Hard the Dewey Cox story in here for sure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.105.209.68 (talk) 06:48, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

no walk hard has nothing to do with the actors in this group. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.167.237.116 (talk) 00:43, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • While I am not advocating either adding Walk Hard to the chart or defining John C. Reilly as a "frat pack member" both Walk Hard and John C. Reilly are related to the group. Walk Hard contains a cameo by Jack Black (a Frat Pack member) and numerous frequent contributors like Justin Long, Paul Rudd, Tim Meadows, Chris Parnell, Jenna Fischer - and produced by Judd Apatow. "Nothing to do with the actors in this group"? Hardly. Also, Reilly has worked extensively with Will Ferrell and Jack Black.Kevin Crossman (talk) 18:24, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If it does not have will ferrell, vince vaungh, luke or owen wilson, jack black, or steve carrell in it than it should not even be mentioned on this page. It really does not matter how many frequent contributors are in it. stop trying to turn this list in to a 20 actor list with 50 plus movies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.3.85.166 (talk) 03:56, 9 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The criteria that is currently used in the article for "Other films" is "with at least one of these in a large role". If this is the case, add the film. Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 13:50, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Andy Dick in Knocked Up?

I don't think Andy Dick is anywhere in Knocked Up.

Didn't see it but IMDB credits him. Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 16:10, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Dodgeball?

I was wondering why Dodgeball: A True Underdog Story isn't on the list of movies. After all, Vince Vaughn and Ben Stiller have the two largest roles.66.229.7.218 (talk) 02:31, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Other films

Please see filmography section of the Brat Pack article for potential formatting of these "other films" to include the names of the collaborators. Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 13:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

SNL

I'm pretty sure Ben Stiller was never a cast member on SNL. I think he was briefly a writer.Sammi.mcclain (talk) 17:52, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

per The SNL Archives website, Ben was a featured cast member beginning late in the 1988/89 season. Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 14:08, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Frat Pack a play on Brat pack

I know that the "Rat Pack" is made up of guess like this group, but I think a connection with the "Brat Pack" of 80s John Hughes actors is more appropriate. The rat pack was a group of singers and standup commedians that once in a while made films. The Brat Pack is a group of actors similar to the Frat Pack.

  • Um... if Rat Pack came first and the Brat Pack was a play on Rat Pack, then obviously the Frat Pack is a play on both. I'm not quite sure what exactly your point was - but the Frat Pack actors have certainly done their fair share of standup/singing/on stage appearances.Kevin Crossman (talk) 19:17, 28 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also, why isn't Wes Anderson listed as the director for Rushmore??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maki79 (talk • contribs) 01:03, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Year One

Where does it say that Owen Wilson is producing this? Judd Apatow is, but I see nowhere saying Wilson is.87.127.178.28 (talk) 11:47, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Christopher Walken vs Steve Carell

Walken should be on this list Walken for sure.. Carell should NOT. Pretty obvious why, Walken has been involved in more of these guys projects than Carell, you're welcome to do an IMDB check —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.187.9.41 (talk) 20:41, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]


BOGUS

This article describes one newspaper's terminology. As such this is just sock puppetry for USA Today. There is no objective term. This term is not used outside of USA Today -- if it is, prove it -- provide INDEPENDENT references from reliable sources. This "article" is tabloid, trivia SPAM and nothing more. Typical wikiality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.141.213.121 (talk) 16:51, 5 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The term is so ubiquitous, this hardly requires a response... but I have addressed most of the concerns by adding appropriate citations to the article. Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 15:12, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
After further review, I have removed all the tags added by 86.141.213.121. They seemed largely unwarranted and were easily addressed by converting many of the links at the end into inline citations. Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 16:16, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Filmography

76.202.81.131 removed The Cable Guy from the Filmography. I do not believe this is the right thing, since you had three Frat Pack members on screen, plus Ben Stiller as director. I am strongly inclined to put it back. If you have an opinion, please discuss:Kevin Crossman (talk) 19:56, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

None of the frat pack have a starring role in the film. How can you justify listing a movie that doesnt even feature one rat pack member in more than a supporting role. I have no problem with this movie being listed in a section of related films, but it certainly has no place among the true frat pack movies. Re-Removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.202.81.131 (talk) 14:58, 18 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Criteria Proposal

Other section is too long and really has no plan just a discussion about whether criteria should be examined. Here's my proposal. We adopt the same system for the Frat Pack films that is used for the Brat Pack and the Rat Pack.

1. Must have at least two core Frat Pack members in a starring role. to

This shortens the current list to Bottle Rocket, Heat Vision and Jack, The Royal Tenebaums, Zoolander, Old School, Starsky & Hutch, Envy, Dodgeball, Anchorman, Wake Up Ron Burgundy, Wedding Crashers, The Wendell Baker Story, and Tropic Thunder

Right there you have 12 films, and one failed TV pilot. For comparison the list of Rat Pack films is 7 and there are 12 Brat Pack films.

or the less restrictive

2. Must have at least one core Frat Pack member in a starring role and at least one other in a supporting role.

This keeps the above list intact and adds Bongwater, Permanent Midnight (which I feel should be removed as Frat Pack films in general are comedies whereas Permanent Midnight is a drama above all else), Meet the Parents, Melinda and Melinda (which again is not a strict comedy), Bewitched, Night at the Museum, and Night of the Museum 2.

This brings the list up to a massive 19 films and one TV pilot (17 films if you removed Permanent Midnight and Melinda and Melinda for not being comedies).

Overall both proposals will remove Orange County, Meet the Fockers, Tenacious D in The Pick of Destiny, Blades of Glory, The Year One.

I highly support the first plan as it shortens the list to a much more reasonable and manageable 12 films and 1 tv pilot while preserving the integrity of the Frat Pack. Just because a Frat Pack member is in a film does not make it Frat Pack film. We can have a separate list of films that are related but not considered part of the core films in the list above. Regardless, some criteria needs to be established in order to keep order. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.202.81.131 (talk) 15:33, 18 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • The benefit of the current list is that it is agnostic to the kind of judgment calls you are trying to make with this criteria. For example, Meet the Parents and Blades of Glory are far more consistent with the tone of the "classic" Frat Pack movies like Dodgeball than the Wes Anderson films or Wendell Baker. If you wanted to remove Year One where Owen's involvement was only as producer that might be reasonable, but otherwise it's really hard to make judgment calls for some of these.
  • I think any proposal that eliminated Blades of Glory and Pick of Destiny is not a good one. Both are thematically similar to other Frat Pack comedies. Both feature conspicuous and overt cameos from Frat Pack stars (and friends!) and in the case of Blades Ben Stiller is a producer of the movie with a Dodgeball mode.
  • Lastly, any comparisons to the number of Rat Pack or Brat Pack movies is not relevant to this discussion. The Frat Pack have already lasted longer than those groups so therefore the numbers ought to be higher.Kevin Crossman (talk) 21:12, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • If you want to additionally limit by tone and theme then by all means, but the current loose criteria invites a number of films that really have no place among the current list. Comparisons to the Brat Pack may not be warranted in terms of number of films, but certainly in terms of criteria. There are many films that have a similar tone to brat pack films that feature only one brat pack member that are not included. Doesnt mean the films aren't any good or arent very similar to brat pack movies, but similarity does not make a film part of the group. We should not include movies in this list simply because they are similar in nature or because they feature one Frat Pack member or have several attached in small roles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.43.145.209 (talk) 19:54, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • The problem is that all of this discussion is "original research" as far as Wikipedia is concerned. Nobody has come up with a criteria for what a "Frat Pack film" is or is not (The Frat Pack Tribute site did, but as noted earlier that site is apparently not enough of an authority on this subject for these purposes).Kevin Crossman (talk) 18:53, 27 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • So we just because no one "officially" has come up with criteria we just list any movies with loose connections to the frat pack? Why bother limiting the list to just movies that have at least one member in a staring role. Shouldn't we then expand it to any film they've ever been a part of?

Seth Rogan

At this point, can't Seth Rogan be indocrinated to the Frat Pack? He played a minor role in Anchorman and a larger role in The 40-year-old Virgin

Couldn't Jonah Hill be considered also. He has played in various movies with other members, and he is in the up and coming movie, Night at the Museum 2. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.236.166.16 (talk) 23:33, 9 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Office

I guess The Office should be added to the list, since yesterday's episode starred Jack Black. However, I'm not sure if it should be in the Filmography section or somevhere else. Any suggestions? Jon Harald Søby (talk) 13:46, 2 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And Will Ferrell appeared later as Michael Scott's replacement.

Additions?

It seems like Pineapple Express and Role Models should probably be included. The Hangover as well? What about Eastbound & Down or the Foot Fist Way? All feature actors prevalent across these movies and are of a same brand of humor. Thoughts, ideas? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.79.246.208 (talk) 05:57, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Filmography section

That chart (which is otherwise nice) seems fairly borked, but I don't trust myself with the code to fix it. I think everyone just got moved down one or something (Stiller stars in the Night at the Museum movies and wasn't in Year One, etc.). Baseballbaker23 (talk) 05:23, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Jack Black had been taken out, causing everything to shift. Maher-shalal-hashbaz (talk) 13:14, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References to the Frat Pack on the actors' Wikipedia pages

Interestingly, none of the Wikipedia entries for any of the actors (that are listed as being members of the Frat Pack) mentions their membership of the Frat Pack - is there a reason for this? Professor J Lawrence (talk) 20:06, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I see mentions on Luke Wilson, Owen Wilson, and Vince Vaughn. Didn't check the rest, since you statement is incorrect Kevin Crossman (talk) 19:05, 15 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Filmography table

USA Today created a chart of I guess the "main films" with who was in what. It is at http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2004-06-16-fratpackchart.htm It could help to kinda get the table cleaned up. ONEder Boy (talk) 00:19, 24 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Jesus, Crossmann. Do you spend all day thinking about ways to argue with people who are trying to talk about "your" page? Is your own particular vision about some small esoteric crap so important that you cannot live without being absolutely correct at all times? I especially like the way you've created a term but have not sourced it with anything outside your own ideas. Scholarly sources? Entertainment articles? Nah, who needs them. We have Crossman and his Aristotlean notions of truth.

In before "but I'm right and you should check your facts" from Cross"selfpromotion"mann. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.19.196.240 (talk) 08:53, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    • What the heck are you talking about? What term did I create, exactly? As for the comment, ONEder Boy referenced the USA Today article as being useful in cleaning up the filmography table. I asked in what respect does the table need cleaning and/or what that USA table brought to the table. Could I have phrased it more delicately? Probably. And it may have come off like "it doesn't need fixing" but what I meant was an honest "what do you think needs cleaning up?" That's all. Kevin Crossman (talk) 23:47, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Andy Dick as a primary Frat Pack member?

Andy Dick has recently been added to the Filmography table. Would he not be more of a "close contributor" rather than a primary member, seeing as he is largely only present during the very early days, and he has literally never been cited as a Frat Pack member (that I'm aware of, anyway)? His addition to the main table has led to the addition of several new movies which seem dubious to list as "Frat Pack" movies if you consider not only the cast but also the tone. Wouldn't Andy Dick be better as a close contributor, and these extra movies listed under "Other films" instead? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.43.212.98 (talk) 05:24, 6 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

-- I don't disagree. I started to remove Andy Dick but editing tables by hand/text is such a pain in the ass I gave up.Kevin Crossman (talk) 19:35, 4 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Most SHAMEFUL wikipedia article I've come across in a long time. Worthy of deletion.

Someone else said "This 'article' is tabloid, trivia and nothing more." So true.

Completely UNNOTABLE. INCONSISTENT -- constantly adding people on and off the "list" and switching for a separate grouping of actors . Even introduces the other gossipy made-up "__at-pack" nicknames as if they too were important or definable in even the slightest way.

Totally unencyclopedic. Regardless of citations, this is SHAMEFUL TRIVIALITY.

I can't believe this garbage. Take a look at the archive for more complaints hidden away there.

Worthy of deletion.

108.7.8.215 (talk) 06:36, 4 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Are you complaining about the state of the article, or the article topic itself? If it is former, I agree especially the inclusion of Andy Dick in the table is basically vandalism (see my comment about about fixing it). If it is the latter, I would says the Rat Pack and the Brat Pack are both aritlces in Wikipedia and if they are there then certainly the Frat Pack belongs.Kevin Crossman (talk) 19:40, 4 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What's even more shameful

People actually take time to discuss this rubbish! Some nincompoop from the media coins a term and it becomes an entry in an encyclopedia [sic]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.115.64.20 (talk) 10:42, 16 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Frat Pack is basically Dead - Apatow Pack

It's been a long time since the core members of Frat Pack have made movies. We need a Apatow Pack page to illustrate the massive number of movies Apatow Pack have made, and are still making! 97.100.251.116 (talk) 05:27, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Hangover

The Hangover (2009) is missing from the list of films, yet that's a quintessential Frat Pack movie!

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